Author Topic: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU  (Read 12410 times)

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Icyunvme

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2020, 12:21:19 AM »
Good article, spot on

SportsmansP5/8

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2020, 12:50:16 AM »
This is a buisiness and if your an owner and I was  in it to make money and these trainers are brought up knowing this if they loose they loose owners so everybody bends corners trust me Nick wasn't the first to hit em with the heater an wont be the last like i told Eric who drove many of my horses in illinois and at the big M he shouldn't have made it look so obvious sometimes you win when you loose!!!! I mean cmon i remember one of the best claims of all time when oosting got ahold of bobs minute made off banks  the horse went from an 8 claimer to running 2nd to loyal opposition outta the ten hole on supernite!!!! She went off form then he geared her up for a few more checks!!! Ill never forget cashing a big win bet on her when he was heating her back up little mike whispered in my ear its coming to an end now meaning she was done!!!!! Still funny to this day!!!!!

SportsmansP5/8

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2020, 12:53:25 AM »
Greed is what gets everyone in the end!!!!!!!!! Not doping theres always goin to be more money in figuring out how to beat the test then getting caught

VicD

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2020, 08:53:38 AM »
I never realized that the attempt to attract new, younger blood to the sport had nothing to do with gambling.
Gambling never really drove the game, did it?
People would line up at the fence of local tracks to simply watch them run in a circle, right?
This game has been coughing up blood for the last 30 years, it's just closer to flatlining or it has flatlined.
Sturman's article was good.

the master

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2020, 09:09:01 AM »
"Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one."

bond

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2020, 09:45:45 AM »
He took umbradge because I said most people view adults that wager real money on horses pulling a buggy are "akin to crack heads" in public perception. The average person knows little to nothing about online gamblers, but  they can see the regulars going into tracks and OTB's. I think we all agree that gamblers and are not held in high regard just as users of illegal drugs aren't either. We're all sick degens to most and frankly their probably right.

I can see now from reading your posts that you are obviously highly intelligent-but are angry at yourself for being a gambler.
You are angry-and now rightly so-that you bet on a sport that is out of control with cheats.
It wasnt always like that-and now in less and less cases-it still is not. There are still trainers who dont resort to Class 1-2 drugs-but there are obviously a whole slew of those greedy mfers-who have ruined a great Sport.
Unlike you however-I blame the corrupt officials more than I do the horsemen. If you leave the bank doors open and the safe unlocked-do you blame the thieves coming in taking the money-or the bank officials not doing their Job.? Both are guilty-but the bank officials deserve the most blame.
Great horsemen are tough to beat-and other trainers if not controlled will take up the temptation to cheat in order to stay alive and not lose owners.Im hoping that officials will start doing their job now-otherwise they wont have a job to go to.
Ill leave with this thought--do you really believe a top trainer like Burke or Takter or Bob Baffert--would resort to using class 1-2 drugs? To lose millions of $$$ , their reputations, their past incredible performances on the track? The black cloud over any breeding stock they had?? Everyone out of a job? No way-I can assure you of that-and also my dad took me to Europe-where I met top trainers--even the mention of any performance enhancer-would get you kicked out of their barn.
Look whats happening with Servis? Will lose his reputation,millions of $$$-and out of the business-because he was greedy-so it does happen rarely at the top--but much much less than it does with bottom feeders.Live by the sword-you WILL die by the sword.

The Exporter

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2020, 11:25:22 AM »
I am sure most of you have seen the youtube of Stevens and Lucas talking about using a machine. Nobody in this world is immune to greed.

Iceman

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2020, 11:56:22 AM »
Every Kentucky Derby winner while Alex Harthill had his clinic on the Churchill Downs backstretch was given something by Harthill and he also made sure that Dancers Image would get DQ'd for a positive, FACT.

Brown jug

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2020, 12:34:43 PM »
like most things  you have to bottom out before you can start to build back up
hopefully harness racing will/has bottomed and people running the sport will realize it needs to be managed differently in order to attract owners and gamblers
we an hope

Carnival People

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2020, 02:05:21 AM »
I DIDNT CARE FOR THE NASTY WORDS THEY SAD ABOUT

SLIPPERY NICK

Normally I would disagree with you on this but that Sturman guy should be careful about what he says.  He's a degenerate gambler and he should not be writing stories about the harness game.   Surick would be justified to kick his ass.   Little jerk sits behind a typewriter and thinks he is judge and jury.  Then he says that Freehold will be different.  What is Freehold?  Who goes there.  90% of the old people in the stands died from the virus. 

Harness Stats

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2020, 06:41:54 AM »
I have seen many, many people become problem gamblers and I've watched the methodical destruction in their lives. They all basically share the same story: Somebody took them as a child to track and they're still ensnared in the gambling game decades later. I have a strong belief in not exposing the innocence of a child to gambling.

You honestly think that racetracks made and make all problem gamblers. That's your assumption.  Let me inform you just a little on how most kids start gambling. Did you ever see a "claw machine" It caters to very young kids throwing their quarters into the machine to try to win the "big prize" Or they get exposed to the con man Carny slight of hand games at the local fair or even sometimes school sponsored carnivals trying to win stuffed animals or whatever.
Around fourth grade it's collectible cards whether sports or others like Pokemon. They make up games to gamble with them, winner gets the losers cards. By the time they hit 12 they learn to play real card games like Blackjack, Poker and Gin Rummy. They watch their daddies and nowadays mommies play in their weekly home games with their friends.
Then there are the prop bets. "Bet you I can throw a rock farther than you" "Bet I'll get a higher score than you in a video game" "Bet I'll make a 3 pointer before you" etc etc. Later they graduate to Scratch Offs and Lottery Tickets.
What about the legal sports gaming (football, baseball, basketball) video games and sites where they are encouraged to pay for extra products, such as "ultimate team packs". The identities of the players in these packs would only be revealed once they had paid, which introduced them to the "thrill of gambling", the chance of acquiring a star player who would make them unbeatable.
In the UK a recent report by the Gambling Commission suggests up to 25,000 11- to 16-year-olds are problem gamblers, with many learning to bet via computer games and social media, not to mention the Fruit Machines whose payments were made with candy or other sweets and not real money.

Your favorite horse must be Bully Pulpit.

Keep on blaming Racing and preaching your hate filled false assumption agenda. Posting about children learning to gamble by betting on horses is a product of your own mind and imagination and was initiated by you by misrepresenting another persons opinion on a totally different subject, education about the specifics of the standardbred breed of horses which are used for other purposes than racing such as trail riding.
 
Ask the Amish what they use them for, they acquire many and it's not for racing, they're for hitching to an Amish family's buggy. The standardbred is known for having an even disposition, which is important as Amish horses often are on roads with a lot of traffic. Try that with a high strung Tbred or Quarterbred.
 
Betting on races may have screwed you up financially or otherwise but that's your bias, deal with it and don't project it on others.

Seamus11

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2020, 07:14:14 AM »
I don’t know, Stats.... some of what you wrote certainly had some “legs” for sure but a bit of a stretch as well.
Comparing “The Claw Game” and things like that as an initiator to gambling is way to far fetched.  I mean, essentially, you’re including skeeball, pinball machines and pac man into things that get kids hooked.  When you head toward scratch tickets, daily numbers and what not, those for sure are catalyst.  Claw games though??

I will agree though on other parts.  Over  the years, I’ve watched the kids of the degenerate gamblers grow up at our local track.  I’ve seen them from the time they were 4-5 years old til now, when they’re old enough to gamble and drink legally.  At 4-5, they were, for the most part, the dirtiest, foul mouthed little shits you’ve ever seen in your life.  They’d be outside in 40-45 degree weather with no jacket or socks on while Daddy, who may have missed a dentist appointment or two, is putting the grocery/clothing money on a pick 4 that has ZERO chance to win.  Never is it these little kids’ fault because they just had to tag along with Daddy... because a sitter for the afternoon would’ve cost him (10) $1.00 exacta boxes at the track... so away they went.  Now, they’re 21 and have two of their own little “Ill-Legits” at the track WITH IM, doing the same stupid shit that Daddy taught him years ago.  It’s sad, really.  They’re doing nothing “illegal” (unless they’re betting with the $100 food stamp money they got for selling their $150 card for cash to gamble with !!) but the industry has just become the absolute Dregs of Society.  I wouldn’t EVER bring my young son or daughter to one of these places.  And the blame lies squarely on the States that regulate these places and organizations like the USTA for turns a blind eye to everything going on with THEIR sport.  NEVER, with the way Harness Racing is today, would I bring my 4-5 year old to go hang out with “Daddy’s” little brat... EVER !! 

Who knows, once this virus ends, what the States\Casinos will do with their stipends to these tracks.  And you couple that with all the bad press about the 29 cheats that just got bagged... I don’t think anyone has to even wonder if this, once great activity, will be around.  Sad... but true.

private ritual

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2020, 09:54:55 AM »
Interesting article. Should be interesting to see how things shake out. Hoping with sports betting and better odds for cashing tickets Freehold will be the place to go.

Brown jug

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2020, 10:17:28 AM »
actually harness racing is one gambling option that most young people or novice gamblers do not participate in ( this has been well proven)
they don't understand it and it is complicated
now compare that to slots, lotteries, black jack, sports wagering  roulette etc  which are very easy to play  with minimal knowledge

The Exporter

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Re: CHANGES IN HARNESS WHEN IT RETURNS....HRU
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2020, 10:29:20 AM »
I must say, I didn't mean to sound as though I blame all horsemen. I have known some horsemen that were hard working people and I knew a few who were caught doing stuff that got them barred. My exchanges with that poster got me going because I have seen many, many people become problem gamblers and I've watched the methodical destruction in their lives. They all basically share the same story: Somebody took them as a child to track and they're still ensnared in the gambling game decades later. I have a strong belief in not exposing the innocence of a child to gambling. My children have no idea what I do. I have never, ever taken them anywhere close to a gambling establishment. Once somebody is an adult and they make that decision, that's on them. That's why you have to be 21 to get in a casino. As far the big names not using drugs, I must admit I've become jaded over the years and I'm leary of anyone with a high percentage. I watched Gary Stevens hand Pat Day a buzzer after the winning the 95 Ky. Derby and if HOF jocks and trainers will cheat on the biggest stage, imagine whats going on at every other track.

So true. Here is a little video shot by an undercover PETA groom a few years back. The top and most respected trainers talking about shocking horses like as common as wearing a bridle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNhoYxYr070

 

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