HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: LUCPARK on April 13, 2020, 02:57:23 PM
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https://harnessracingupdate.com/2020/04/12/when-racing-returns-a-new-normal-would-be-a-welcome-change/
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I DIDNT CARE FOR THE NASTY WORDS THEY SAD ABOUT
SLIPPERY NICK
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Brett Sturman is a Communist
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A horse player is akin to a crack head in public perception.
Cite your sources. Or is this just your obviously biased opinion
Where did you get your degree in Psychology oh wise one ?
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"These type of bettors continue to visit the track"
"There's a reason most harness tracks are virtually empty"
Which one is it? Make up your mind
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are they gonna catch burke?
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are they gonna catch burke?
[/quote
There's going to be a lot more added to the unemployment teats if the burke brigade goes down
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Seen it first hand over nearly 50 years and so have you. It doesn't take a person with a degree or an IQ higher than the national speed limit to see the type of people that roll in a harness track to gamble. A few 1990 cars in the parking lot with multicolored fenders or a piece of cardboard in a rear window and the rest get there by metro bus. Just from a pure gambling standpoint, it's a bad bet. Is that hyperbole or conjecture? Not if you look at the all gambling/wagering/betting available and the choices people make with their wallets. There's a reason most harness tracks are virtually empty and on life support. But you keep on canvassing schools and daycares looking for new blood and telling yourself differently.
You have been around for 50 years, surely you are aware that the professional players no longer "roll into harness tracks" , right?
They are betting remotely.
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Schooled. That's what I did to you in your heat post. Check it out.
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Now you are being a total liar. Read those posts again and tell the truth. My intention is for people of any age to learn about standardbreds, never said a thing about teaching young people to bet. What other sport can you get involved at the hands on level like Harness Racing? If you are lucky enough to own a horse you can jog it.
But you want to twist everything to fit your own hate agenda.
Good luck.
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Keep making stuff up. Standardbred youth programs don't teach betting, never have never will and it was not said nor implied except by you.
Your agenda is clearly posted in your name. Hitting the pick six is a pipe dream.
Tell that to whoever cashed a dime bet last Saturday and won over 150,000 at Gulfstream. That pipe dream became a real thing. It was a superfecta not a pick six but the end result was the same, possibly even life changing for that person(s)
Glad you admitted you are a Degen. So stop the holier than thou attitude and rhetoric.
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Brett Sturman is a Communist
didnt he have a website
Theracingturd.com ?
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"The Harness Horse Youth Foundation is a charitable 501 (c) 3 organization dedicated to giving young horse lovers the opportunity to learn about driving and Standardbred horses. The Foundation has been making a difference in young people’s lives since 1976 and our programs include interactive learning experiences with race horses, equine scholarship administration, and creation and distribution of educational materials related to harness racing."
Our Mission:
“To provide young people and their families information and experiences with harness horses in order to foster the next generation of fans and participants.”
You think this is all my idea just from one suggestion in response on how to hopefully go forward from the current scandal …. Go ahead say more shit and make a bigger fool out of yourself …. please
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No more Guru lies and BS, that's a start 11.wp 11.wp 11.wp 11.wp
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Good article, spot on
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This is a buisiness and if your an owner and I was in it to make money and these trainers are brought up knowing this if they loose they loose owners so everybody bends corners trust me Nick wasn't the first to hit em with the heater an wont be the last like i told Eric who drove many of my horses in illinois and at the big M he shouldn't have made it look so obvious sometimes you win when you loose!!!! I mean cmon i remember one of the best claims of all time when oosting got ahold of bobs minute made off banks the horse went from an 8 claimer to running 2nd to loyal opposition outta the ten hole on supernite!!!! She went off form then he geared her up for a few more checks!!! Ill never forget cashing a big win bet on her when he was heating her back up little mike whispered in my ear its coming to an end now meaning she was done!!!!! Still funny to this day!!!!!
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Greed is what gets everyone in the end!!!!!!!!! Not doping theres always goin to be more money in figuring out how to beat the test then getting caught
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I never realized that the attempt to attract new, younger blood to the sport had nothing to do with gambling.
Gambling never really drove the game, did it?
People would line up at the fence of local tracks to simply watch them run in a circle, right?
This game has been coughing up blood for the last 30 years, it's just closer to flatlining or it has flatlined.
Sturman's article was good.
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"Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one."
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He took umbradge because I said most people view adults that wager real money on horses pulling a buggy are "akin to crack heads" in public perception. The average person knows little to nothing about online gamblers, but they can see the regulars going into tracks and OTB's. I think we all agree that gamblers and are not held in high regard just as users of illegal drugs aren't either. We're all sick degens to most and frankly their probably right.
I can see now from reading your posts that you are obviously highly intelligent-but are angry at yourself for being a gambler.
You are angry-and now rightly so-that you bet on a sport that is out of control with cheats.
It wasnt always like that-and now in less and less cases-it still is not. There are still trainers who dont resort to Class 1-2 drugs-but there are obviously a whole slew of those greedy mfers-who have ruined a great Sport.
Unlike you however-I blame the corrupt officials more than I do the horsemen. If you leave the bank doors open and the safe unlocked-do you blame the thieves coming in taking the money-or the bank officials not doing their Job.? Both are guilty-but the bank officials deserve the most blame.
Great horsemen are tough to beat-and other trainers if not controlled will take up the temptation to cheat in order to stay alive and not lose owners.Im hoping that officials will start doing their job now-otherwise they wont have a job to go to.
Ill leave with this thought--do you really believe a top trainer like Burke or Takter or Bob Baffert--would resort to using class 1-2 drugs? To lose millions of $$$ , their reputations, their past incredible performances on the track? The black cloud over any breeding stock they had?? Everyone out of a job? No way-I can assure you of that-and also my dad took me to Europe-where I met top trainers--even the mention of any performance enhancer-would get you kicked out of their barn.
Look whats happening with Servis? Will lose his reputation,millions of $$$-and out of the business-because he was greedy-so it does happen rarely at the top--but much much less than it does with bottom feeders.Live by the sword-you WILL die by the sword.
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I am sure most of you have seen the youtube of Stevens and Lucas talking about using a machine. Nobody in this world is immune to greed.
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like most things you have to bottom out before you can start to build back up
hopefully harness racing will/has bottomed and people running the sport will realize it needs to be managed differently in order to attract owners and gamblers
we an hope
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I DIDNT CARE FOR THE NASTY WORDS THEY SAD ABOUT
SLIPPERY NICK
Normally I would disagree with you on this but that Sturman guy should be careful about what he says. He's a degenerate gambler and he should not be writing stories about the harness game. Surick would be justified to kick his ass. Little jerk sits behind a typewriter and thinks he is judge and jury. Then he says that Freehold will be different. What is Freehold? Who goes there. 90% of the old people in the stands died from the virus.
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I have seen many, many people become problem gamblers and I've watched the methodical destruction in their lives. They all basically share the same story: Somebody took them as a child to track and they're still ensnared in the gambling game decades later. I have a strong belief in not exposing the innocence of a child to gambling.
You honestly think that racetracks made and make all problem gamblers. That's your assumption. Let me inform you just a little on how most kids start gambling. Did you ever see a "claw machine" It caters to very young kids throwing their quarters into the machine to try to win the "big prize" Or they get exposed to the con man Carny slight of hand games at the local fair or even sometimes school sponsored carnivals trying to win stuffed animals or whatever.
Around fourth grade it's collectible cards whether sports or others like Pokemon. They make up games to gamble with them, winner gets the losers cards. By the time they hit 12 they learn to play real card games like Blackjack, Poker and Gin Rummy. They watch their daddies and nowadays mommies play in their weekly home games with their friends.
Then there are the prop bets. "Bet you I can throw a rock farther than you" "Bet I'll get a higher score than you in a video game" "Bet I'll make a 3 pointer before you" etc etc. Later they graduate to Scratch Offs and Lottery Tickets.
What about the legal sports gaming (football, baseball, basketball) video games and sites where they are encouraged to pay for extra products, such as "ultimate team packs". The identities of the players in these packs would only be revealed once they had paid, which introduced them to the "thrill of gambling", the chance of acquiring a star player who would make them unbeatable.
In the UK a recent report by the Gambling Commission suggests up to 25,000 11- to 16-year-olds are problem gamblers, with many learning to bet via computer games and social media, not to mention the Fruit Machines whose payments were made with candy or other sweets and not real money.
Your favorite horse must be Bully Pulpit.
Keep on blaming Racing and preaching your hate filled false assumption agenda. Posting about children learning to gamble by betting on horses is a product of your own mind and imagination and was initiated by you by misrepresenting another persons opinion on a totally different subject, education about the specifics of the standardbred breed of horses which are used for other purposes than racing such as trail riding.
Ask the Amish what they use them for, they acquire many and it's not for racing, they're for hitching to an Amish family's buggy. The standardbred is known for having an even disposition, which is important as Amish horses often are on roads with a lot of traffic. Try that with a high strung Tbred or Quarterbred.
Betting on races may have screwed you up financially or otherwise but that's your bias, deal with it and don't project it on others.
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I don’t know, Stats.... some of what you wrote certainly had some “legs” for sure but a bit of a stretch as well.
Comparing “The Claw Game” and things like that as an initiator to gambling is way to far fetched. I mean, essentially, you’re including skeeball, pinball machines and pac man into things that get kids hooked. When you head toward scratch tickets, daily numbers and what not, those for sure are catalyst. Claw games though??
I will agree though on other parts. Over the years, I’ve watched the kids of the degenerate gamblers grow up at our local track. I’ve seen them from the time they were 4-5 years old til now, when they’re old enough to gamble and drink legally. At 4-5, they were, for the most part, the dirtiest, foul mouthed little shits you’ve ever seen in your life. They’d be outside in 40-45 degree weather with no jacket or socks on while Daddy, who may have missed a dentist appointment or two, is putting the grocery/clothing money on a pick 4 that has ZERO chance to win. Never is it these little kids’ fault because they just had to tag along with Daddy... because a sitter for the afternoon would’ve cost him (10) $1.00 exacta boxes at the track... so away they went. Now, they’re 21 and have two of their own little “Ill-Legits” at the track WITH IM, doing the same stupid shit that Daddy taught him years ago. It’s sad, really. They’re doing nothing “illegal” (unless they’re betting with the $100 food stamp money they got for selling their $150 card for cash to gamble with !!) but the industry has just become the absolute Dregs of Society. I wouldn’t EVER bring my young son or daughter to one of these places. And the blame lies squarely on the States that regulate these places and organizations like the USTA for turns a blind eye to everything going on with THEIR sport. NEVER, with the way Harness Racing is today, would I bring my 4-5 year old to go hang out with “Daddy’s” little brat... EVER !!
Who knows, once this virus ends, what the States\Casinos will do with their stipends to these tracks. And you couple that with all the bad press about the 29 cheats that just got bagged... I don’t think anyone has to even wonder if this, once great activity, will be around. Sad... but true.
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Interesting article. Should be interesting to see how things shake out. Hoping with sports betting and better odds for cashing tickets Freehold will be the place to go.
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actually harness racing is one gambling option that most young people or novice gamblers do not participate in ( this has been well proven)
they don't understand it and it is complicated
now compare that to slots, lotteries, black jack, sports wagering roulette etc which are very easy to play with minimal knowledge
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I must say, I didn't mean to sound as though I blame all horsemen. I have known some horsemen that were hard working people and I knew a few who were caught doing stuff that got them barred. My exchanges with that poster got me going because I have seen many, many people become problem gamblers and I've watched the methodical destruction in their lives. They all basically share the same story: Somebody took them as a child to track and they're still ensnared in the gambling game decades later. I have a strong belief in not exposing the innocence of a child to gambling. My children have no idea what I do. I have never, ever taken them anywhere close to a gambling establishment. Once somebody is an adult and they make that decision, that's on them. That's why you have to be 21 to get in a casino. As far the big names not using drugs, I must admit I've become jaded over the years and I'm leary of anyone with a high percentage. I watched Gary Stevens hand Pat Day a buzzer after the winning the 95 Ky. Derby and if HOF jocks and trainers will cheat on the biggest stage, imagine whats going on at every other track.
So true. Here is a little video shot by an undercover PETA groom a few years back. The top and most respected trainers talking about shocking horses like as common as wearing a bridle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNhoYxYr070
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They didn't spend or put all this effort into exposing that Racing was corrupt and each and every State and Provincial Commisions have been exposed as totally incapable of overseeing and policing the sport all the while taking in millions of dollars in taxes every year. The only way Racing returns is with one body with one commissioner period. Each State and Province will not be able to debate what this will cost each of them and if they don't go along they give up their right to hold races in that State or Province. Further to this it won't matter if you had Racing before you won't automatically get a licence to start racing they will take into account where punishment should have been handed out according to the rules and wasn't or infractions were swept under the carpet. This whole investigation is not about who was cheating and who was caught but how each State and Province conducted themselves allowing this to go on so long. Yes the landscape will be quite different and it's like those programs you see on TV about hoarders you have to completely tear it down and start fresh.
Sounds good.
Keep up the good work, Tim. tmbz1
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Sounds good.
Keep up the good work, Tim. tmbz1
WHAT ABOUT THE GUY THAT SAID TO INSTALL THE CLAW GAME TO ATTRACT YOUNGER CROWDS?
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WHAT ABOUT THE GUY THAT SAID TO INSTALL THE CLAW GAME TO ATTRACT YOUNGER CROWDS?
All you need to do is have:
1. Women 18-25 get 3 for 1 drinks
2. Live music.
You do those 2 things, you will beat them away.
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All you need to do is have:
1. Women 18-25 get 3 for 1 drinks
2. Live music.
You do those 2 things, you will beat them away.
I'm not sure 18 year old women can legally drink alcohol.
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You nailed it, Ice. Right on the button. Tear the whole frigging thing down and start from scratch!
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WITH PEOPLE LIKE YOU, BUD, IN THE INDUSTRY, HOW COULD IT NOT HAVE BEEN STUPID? ALL YOU AND YOUR FELLOW TURD GRADE GRADUATES DIDNT HAVE A CLUE. AMAZING HOW ALL YOU FUCKS DIDNT GO OUT OF BUSINES DUE TO SORE ELBOWS FROM PATTING YOURSELVES ON THE BACK ALL DAY LONG
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All wagering activity should be ceased and the money directed where it is needed.
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7.4 Billion....do you think that the government will ask why are we supporting harness racing and try to decouple??........whatever happened to the PA State budget which was going after the PA racing fund...the state budget was to be voted upon in June........right after 9-11 happened which was a major catasrophe, they passed the slots bill , so due to this catastrophe I wouldnt be surprised if they go after the slots bill in the tri state area and amend it.......financia lly the city of ny and the state will be strapped for cash with no sales tax revenue and loss on state income tax revenue....though ts?
Going forward, everything is on the table. It was less than 10 years ago, the recession tank yearling prices by 50% or more. If it all ended today, the effects of this tragedy will take a lot more time to heal the economy.
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EXCELLENT
Will you also be solving ( single handily) drug abuse, alcohol abuse and physical abuse
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I never said racetracks make "ALL" problem gamblers.
You did say that. Your exact words were
"They all basically share the same story: Somebody took them as a child to track and they're still ensnared in the gambling game decades later"
As for 11 to 16 year olds gambling in any country they don't bet on horses or have credit cards or betting accounts and the study didn't say they did either. You don't need an account to lose your allowance to the neighborhood shark whatever the wagering format is. card games, sports abilities or prop bets to name a few.
Just to be nice to a couple of your opinions I'll agree that the vast majority of online bettors make more deposits than withdrawals which is common sense as the sites would not exist otherwise, and of course compulsive gambling is addiction based. So is the tobacco industry, liquor industry, drug industry, porn industry and countless others. The human psyche is addiction based .. the trick is knowing how do deal with it and being able to control it which few people do.
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Finally … A non hateful non judgmental post without any misrepresentation s and a lot of truth. I'm going to shock the shit out you by giving you a tmbz1
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I know a couple guys who earned in the seven figures by their early 20"s playing poker. They're very sharp younger adults who understand variance and probability and certainly weren't afraid of anything being too complicated. They were smart enough to realize that betting on an unpredictable animal in harness racing also invloves other factors such as the human element of trainers and drivers in the equation and that gamble paled in comparison to betting on themselves and outsmarting a few other guys at a table. Like it or not, the industry is commonly viewed as corrupt and full of degenerates and a lot of that is regurgitated innuendo that is passed along through generations. It's a perception that becomes reality without even visiting a track. My humble guess is if you polled 1000 random people on a few questions about their perception of harness racing the results would be disasterous for those hoping they can somehow turn it around. Another factor is the liberal mindset concerning a sport that has been proven over and over to drug/dope and abuse animals. I'm not trying crush anybody that makes a living racing their horses as this entire conversation started with Harnessstats talking about trying to introduce young people to standardbreds/harness racing through youth programs. I merely stated that I thought that was a terrible idea because I'm on the other side as a bettor and I've seen the negative effects of gambling on horses firsthand with people of all ages for almost 50 years.
The "novice" gambler apparently finds the other avenues you listed above as more fulfilling, exciting, or when it comes to sports/fantasy sports or single-deck blackjack (etc.), a more legitimate bet. I can see a major rise in gambling on sports and even previously unimaginable things like eSports as legalization spreads throughout America. Today's demographic are a trip on may levels.
I'm just giving you my insight from this side of the fence. Not saying it's gospel, but if the industry had considered this perspective years ago and tried to clean it up and market it properly, perhaps the game would have a much healthier bottom line and future such as horse racing currently does in other regions of the world.
You are ruining this worthless forum more each day.
please fuck off.
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Sorry the truth hurts. Just like a wortless Dem to attack that which they don't undertsand or agree with.
ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
I don't read your posts.
Nobody does.
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Of course you do .... or you wouldn't have responded.
You get one sentence to earn my interest.
You've failed 60 times.
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Sorry the truth hurts. Just like a wortless Dem to attack that which they don't undertsand or agree with.
Here we go again, bringing politics into a discussion that has nothing to do with politics.
Let the facts speak for themselves.
Kids get interested in horses because of the horses, not the gambling.
I know many horse people who don’t gamble.
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Wow dude. I gave you a compliment to try to bury the hatchet and off you go again. Please go see a shrink, you have a lot of problems and posting here is not helping you, it's just adding to your obvious misery and self hatred for being an admitted Degen lifetime loser in the horse racing world
By the way I have personally seen on more than one occasion kids in junior high play craps in the back of study halls. Of course that was more than 50 years ago but I doubt if that has changed
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wow pick 6 pipedream
you really have a hate on for harness racing, clearly the sport has harmed you in some way and you blame it for your issues
and yet you seem to only single out harness racing as the devils work but no other vices
yes to some any form of gambling can be addictive and destructive
weak people can succumb to any number of vices, drugs, alcohol , sex etc
harness racing is not illegal or immoral for that matter so i would say to you and anyone if you don't like it or cant handle it don't participate , no one is forcing you or anyone else to do so
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What about when they're adults? Most don't come back out to just see the pretty horses anymore once they get a dose of adrenaline from betting. If a kid wants to see a horse, take him to a riding stable. That's a responsible way to protect your child from an industry that has and will continue to impact lives negatively. That's the only reality I'm trying to convey, but it seems denial is rampant. You may know "many" horse people who don't bet, but you also know that's a very, very, very small minority and there wouldn't even be standardbred racing without gamblers.
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FIGHTING IS RAMPANT AROUND HERE TOO
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Elvis (PckSxdream) has left the building .. along with all of his opinions on this thread and others he posted. I don't want to get into any trouble by asking but is this a result of him removing his account .. or being "banded"? I would think removing the account, as bad as he was it was mostly irritating and I don't think he violated any rules ...Just curious
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Elvis (PckSxdream) has left the building .. along with all of his opinions on this thread and others he posted. I don't want to get into any trouble by asking but is this a result of him removing his account .. or being "banded"? I would think removing the account, as bad as he was it was mostly irritating and I don't think he violated any rules ...Just curious
Likely tired of the fighting. He got hammered
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are they gonna catch burke?
Never
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Elvis (PckSxdream) has left the building .. along with all of his opinions on this thread and others he posted. I don't want to get into any trouble by asking but is this a result of him removing his account .. or being "banded"? I would think removing the account, as bad as he was it was mostly irritating and I don't think he violated any rules ...Just curious
I had to get rid of him.
Tough call but the correct one.
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I had to get rid of him.
Tough call but the correct one.
IT WAS YOU OR HIM