WHO SHOULD BE ON THE MT. RUSHMORE OF DRIVERS?

[comeonman]

But I seem to remember Walter tried to win every race he was.  I remember  that was not Herves goal..don't forget to include  that stat

[Fuguzzi]

But I seem to remember Walter tried to win every race he was.  I remember  that was not Herve's goal..don't forget to include  that stat

Yet Herve won almost 5000 moreand it took guys like Morgan, Palone and Cat almost a decade to pass him for the wins lead while Herve was shutdown.

I respect your opinion but you can have 40 starts with Walter and I will have 40 starts with Herve, same horse, I believe I will do better.
I know at least, I will get the 40 starts. Sonny Patterson once said to me watching him drive. "If Herve goes to the whip, it's because his hands hurt" Something to that effect.

One other note. Admittedly both are iconic first name drivers. When you say Walter it conjures up a certain image and style, when you say Herve it conjures up a totally different image and style. I like mine more.

[comeonman]

It depends what you want with your forty. Starts.....I will say you might get all 40 starts with Herve but will never make more money as an owner with him driving...plus he was never a gamblers friend likee wally was... I want to win as an owner or player...yes you can pay the bills 3rd 4th ..not for me... race those horses....

[rainman2]

But I seem to remember Walter tried to win every race he was.  I remember  that was not Herves goal..don't forget to include  that stat

That’s what drivers are supposed to do. The last thing you want as an owner is a no-try [or a non-winning attempt] on your horse (especially if you got a good draw)!!

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

It depends what you want with your forty. Starts.....I will say you might get all 40 starts with Herve but will never make more money as an owner with him driving...plus he was never a gamblers friend likee wally was... I want to win as an owner or player...yes you can pay the bills 3rd 4th ..not for me... race those horses....

Herve in his prime was the best driver on a half mile track to ever sit in a sulky.

[Fuguzzi]

Hands down. He was God. If I say it, they argue with me.

[Fuguzzi]

Walter also had some "advantages" Herve, quite honestly did not. Walter arrived in the era of the tube and Epogen, He also, had that clangy single hitch lift bike. Walter got first call from all of the cheaters, gassers and tubers of the day, especially Joe Guarino. Throw in Lapoff, Marino, Flis, Brennan, and on and on. Didn't he and Gaurino team up to set the all time YR wins mark ( upper 200s ) beating Larry Summer and Perry Steinkohl's record? On top of everything else he was doing, Guarino apparently had a mole in the Cornell testing trailer and would find out what they were testing for on a given night. Apparently he even treated horses on the old backtrack behind the paddock. All this until they caught up with him for good. Of course, Herve drove pre-raced horses, but he kicked ass night after night when there were Hall of Famers from end to end across the starting gate. For those of you who consider Carmine great, consider Herve had twice as many career wins. Twice as many. Herve sometimes wanted to be 3rd and 4th no doubt. I knew him well. But, for someone who cheated a lot, he won a shitload!

[Fuguzzi]

Herve in his prime was the best driver on a half mile track to ever sit in a sulky.

Just dont agree with me too often, Mike. It will be bad for your image. Remember, I am just "coffee grinds".

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

Just dont agree with me too often, Mike. It will be bad for your image. Remember, I am just "coffee grinds".

LOL

[Fuguzzi]

 

[rainman2]

Walter also had some "advantages" Herve, quite honestly did not. Walter arrived in the era of the tube and Epogen, He also, had that clangy single hitch lift bike. Walter got first call from all of the cheaters, gassers and tubers of the day, especially Joe Guarino. Throw in Lapoff, Marino, Flis, Brennan, and on and on. Didn't he and Gaurino team up to set the all time YR wins mark ( upper 200s ) beating Larry Summer and Perry Steinkohl's record? On top of everything else he was doing, Guarino apparently had a mole in the Cornell testing trailer and would find out what they were testing for on a given night. Apparently he even treated horses on the old backtrack behind the paddock. All this until they caught up with him for good. Of course, Herve drove pre-raced horses, but he kicked ass night after night when there were Hall of Famers from end to end across the starting gate. For those of you who consider Carmine great, consider Herve had twice as many career wins. Twice as many. Herve sometimes wanted to be 3rd and 4th no doubt. I knew him well. But, for someone who cheated a lot, he won a shitload!

Maybe back before 'tubes and epogen', trainers were doing things that weren't 100% legal too!  Nobody can confirm or deny this!  FYI, look who Case raced against at Northfield during his stay there!  Look at that driving colony then and what they accomplished!over the years!

[Fuguzzi]

Of course trainersw were. there has always been pre-racing and drugging. But the tube/milkshake ( thanks to Dr. Grasso ) at least at YR and RR and Epogen turned the sport on its ear, turned a majority of the horses into "chemical creations", pushed the clean guys and little guys to the curb and the sport has never truly recovered or been the same since.

[kooter for hipin]

Herve in his prime was the best driver on a half mile track to ever sit in a sulky.

......and John Campbell was not.  Campbell and the great "Always Be Miki", saw the George Washington Bridge as a toxic barricade.  When the money, I mean the REAL MONEY, was down at Roosevelt, Eddie Cobb, always got it done.  Secondly, most you talk of overnighters, because in reality, most of you aren't Horsemen, you are sad gamblers. How does Aaron Merriman even get into this conservation  (250,000 drives per year, 150,000 wins) on a Bull Ring.  The great drivers drove and drive the Grand Circuit.  Start your picks there.  As far as " First Over" Herve was concerned, he had Maurice Pusey who made Capitol Hills Farm what it was, while he lost thousands more than he made in A.C. or playing gin in the Roosevelt track kitchen. By the way, night after night, in his their natural environment, I think that Campbell and Pierce were probanbly the best, and that is the reason I never used either.

[Mazola]

Walter Case Jr is an all-time great....on Horseplop.

Shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as the true greats.

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

......and John Campbell was not.  Campbell and the great "Always Be Miki", saw the George Washington Bridge as a toxic barricade.  When the money, I mean the REAL MONEY, was down at Roosevelt, Eddie Cobb, always got it done.  Secondly, most you talk of overnighters, because in reality, most of you aren't Horsemen, you are sad gamblers. How does Aaron Merriman even get into this conservation  (250,000 drives per year, 150,000 wins) on a Bull Ring.  The great drivers drove and drive the Grand Circuit.  Start your picks there.  As far as " First Over" Herve was concerned, he had Maurice Pusey who made Capitol Hills Farm what it was, while he lost
thousands more than he made in A.C. or playing gin in the Roosevelt track kitchen. By the way, night after night, in his their natural environment, I think that Campbell and Pierce were probanbly the best, and that is the reason I never used either.

FYI John Campbell after winning leading driver for the second straight year at the Meadowlands went to Roosevelt and broke the record for the most wins for the fall meet. Fact. Look it up.