IS HORSES ON DEALS GETTING TO BE THE NORM. WHO BENEFITS ?

[rainman2]

How much is the daily rate for the less than big name trainers? Say at Monticello or Plainridge.

I was told  Burke was 4500/month.  Shouldn't it be more if he's a chemist?  Inquiring minds want to know the answer to this!

[Stan durbread]

I doubt you will get Burke for $4500 a month unless it is +++. He is cheaper than most of the successful trainers but he also runs an assembly line barn. Grooms “taking care of” 8-10 horses not the typical 3-5 in a grand circuit barn. Horses get nothing extra as far as leg care, just shockwave and veterinary work.

[rainman2]

Should a better question be who actually gets over on this!

A few groups that do when they don't pay their bills are:

blacksmiths
vets
feed guys
tack shops

[Pacer 2]

I was told  Burke was 4500/month.  Shouldn't it be more if he's a chemist?  Inquiring minds want to know the answer to this!

   What makes you think he's a chemist???

[The Unstable]

Both owner and trainer can benefit. Some owners want to deals only with the "hot chem" trainers.  They will leave them in a heartbeat and if things go south leave them broke.  Some trainers
 are desperate to get horses and take a bad deal for themselves or get only broken down horses who can't do.    But if you have a good relationship and are looking out for each other interests, plus classify as needed both can do well.

1) never buy a horse the trainer doesn't want
2) if the horse cannot do, move it so the trainer doesn't get killed. That does not mean panic but after two to three months if the horse cannot do you have to take your loss and move on.

[The Unstable]

   What makes you think he's a chemist???

the statistical probabilty of Burke out performing everyone at yearling sales and on the track without help seems extremely low. How is it possible that he outperforms all those trainers on the pacing side especially over and over?  Are only idiots who cannot train buying yearlings out of the sales. I mean what are the odds of having the 4 best pacers in Ohio at 3 years old colts in the same year.  Think about the probability of that given the likilihood that some of those who compete against him are likely chemically getting an edge. Burke is like Barry Bonds, a great performer made better with help IMO.  You need not agree but you won't change my mind because i kind of think it is a statistically unlikely occurence. 

Harris spent millions for his owner and cannot compete with him. So have many other owners. But Burke has 15 top ones spread out in every state.  If your a smaller owner you are thrilled you get a horse that makes a 100K in a year, any year.  Burke has 50-100 of them. 

[rainman2]

I doubt you will get Burke for $4500 a month unless it is +++. He is cheaper than most of the successful trainers but he also runs an assembly line barn. Grooms “taking care of” 8-10 horses not the typical 3-5 in a grand circuit barn. Horses get nothing extra as far as leg care, just shockwave and veterinary work.

You still need good grooms to get the job done right!  There is no substitute for this!  Shockwave and vet work can only do so much!

[dougie]

You still need good grooms to get the job done right!  There is no substitute for this!  Shockwave and vet work can only do so much!

Wouldn't Burke be one of the more expensive trainers? If for argument sake he gets $4500 a month for a horses, it certainly gotta be cheaper at smaller tracks with lesser known trainers.

[Grandstand Handicapper]

Burke's had positive tests just like almost every other top trainer. Name me one top trainer who hasn't had a positive test. I don't see how this relates to deals other than if a top trainer is doing well financially, he can either afford to be "entrepreneurial" and take a deal, or he can say go fly a kite. I am sure trainers who aren't doing well would be more willing to take deals. Desperate people do desperate things, LOL. I guess it all depends on what the deal is, LOL.

[Locked in with pace]

$3000 is too low. With most tracks with no barn areas and many ship, shipping has become a big cost per month.  You need to add around $800 for shipping, and $400 for paddocks (assuming 4 races a month). Then you have stall rent ( around $250) . I say closer to $4200 a month. 

[rainman2]

$3000 is too low. With most tracks with no barn areas and many ship, shipping has become a big cost per month.  You need to add around $800 for shipping, and $400 for paddocks (assuming 4 races a month). Then you have stall rent ( around $250) . I say closer to $4200 a month.

Just sent dougie a copy of my bill for 9-25 and it was spot on.  if you don't believe me, ask him.

FYI, Normally the bill is about 3500.

[Locked in with pace]

OK.  $3500. Sounds fair -  Shipping and paddock prices can vary. Yearly expense of $42,000. ($35,000 x 12). Seems like a fair break-even point for an owner. Can't figure out trainers take horses on deals at tracks where horses can't make anywhere near that. 
   

[dougie]

OK.  $3500. Sounds fair -  Shipping and paddock prices can vary. Yearly expense of $42,000. ($35,000 x 12). Seems like a fair break-even point for an owner. Can't figure out trainers take horses on deals at tracks where horses can't make anywhere near that. 
   

I've often wondered about that too! Then how can a owner at one of the smaller tracks with such small purses actually do enough to "break even"? Unless they are making a "score" once in awhile betting their horses.

[MTP1972]

Difficult to make much of a score at the smaller tracks because the pools are so small.

[The Unstable]

I've often wondered about that too! Then how can a owner at one of the smaller tracks with such small purses actually do enough to "break even"? Unless they are making a "score" once in awhile betting their horses.

You can't make a score because you never know if you going to win.  Ever.  Small tracks have a lot of deals and people scrape to get by.  The owners need deals as it would be impossible to have training bills and not go broke.  Unless you use guys like Koch (suspended) , Pelligrino or Adamcyzk who never seem to lose there is no way a owner at a track like Monticello could afford a bill.