What are the breeders doing to help the sport?

[Harper]

When harness racing goes away, the biggest losers will be the breeders. They do a great job promoting themselves to sell yearlings but what are they doing to help the industry survive?

[Ramone]

When harness racing goes away, the biggest losers will be the breeders.

No. The breeders all have land assets and might even benefit from a collapse of the industry. I'm rural and borderline starving but if I sold up I could be a real pretentious poseur (which is of course my real goal in life).

[Grandstand Handicapper]

Interesting and thought provoking question. I think breeders can be the biggest positive and the biggest negative as well. Just look at the commercial breeders motive. It's their entire business model. They don't sell horses. They sell yearlings. I am not a yearling buyer for the most part. But I am a horse owner. I am fully vested in the sport and the industry. While I am not their yearling buyer client, I don't think they do enough for the sport and industry as a whole.

I think they do a lot for 2yo racing. Of course they do. Some for 3yo racing. Not enough. Sponsoring a race is not doing something. That's advertising. Yes, it may add to the purse. I want to see them do more, for 3yo's and aged racing, but they have no incentive to. I want to see them do more for sire stakes, although they've done a good job there. It can still get better. Commercial breeders will get out of the business before the sport and business disappear-----because the sport and business won't.
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Remember, highest and best use. Their real asset is real estate. Ask Armstrong Brothers, the Baugh Family (Almahurst), the Dodge/Van Lennep Family (Castleton), and the list goes on.

[Harper]

It would be interesting to know the percentage of breeders that are profitable. The high end of the yearling market, especially trotting fillies, is absolutely crazy, however this is in comparison to all breeding is a small number. The rest of the breeding market I think is getting crushed?

[Harness Racing Revolution]

When harness racing goes away, the biggest losers will be the breeders. They do a great job promoting themselves to sell yearlings but what are they doing to help the industry survive?

Money that is ultimately obtained through the states in the form of purse welfare and ag development. Nearly every yearling sale is from within the industry. Literally money laundering. Look at the breeders, then look at they buyers. A closed circle. States pour in money from the outside, breeders make them, dirtbags buy them and the pot is divided. 

[The Answer]

Money that is ultimately obtained through the states in the form of purse welfare and ag development. Nearly every yearling sale is from within the industry. Literally money laundering. Look at the breeders, then look at they buyers. A closed circle. States pour in money from the outside, breeders make them, dirtbags buy them and the pot is divided. 

So you would say the same thing for the electric car industry?

[Harness Racing Revolution]

So you would say the same thing for the electric car industry?

Are we talking about the electric car industry? Do you drive an electric vehicle? 80% of the revenue for harness racing is welfare. And....how many horses does the electric car industry manufacture, drug then kill? How many electric car vehicle races the public wagers on being fixed or manipulated with illegal drugs or manipulation??? You just lost the discussion. Maybe you can compare it with drug cartels next.  Actually, they make their own money unlike harness racing.

[The Answer]

Are we talking about the electric car industry? Do you drive an electric vehicle? 80% of the revenue for harness racing is welfare. And....how many horses does the electric car industry manufacture, drug then kill? How many electric car vehicle races the public wagers on being fixed or manipulated with illegal drugs or manipulation??? You just lost the discussion. Maybe you can compare it with drug cartels next.  Actually, they make their own money unlike harness racing.

All that I am saying that the government, federal,state and local, give out “welfare” to many businesses. You act like novel to harness racing. There are studies which I am sure you know, show that in some states the money given by the government is returned in spades to the job creation and economic impact it has for the state.

[Harness Racing Revolution]

All that I am saying that the government, federal,state and local, give out “welfare” to many businesses. You act like novel to harness racing. There are studies which I am sure you know, show that in some states the money given by the government is returned in spades to the job creation and economic impact it has for the state.

And all those industries provide a necessity to society. Harness racing provides NOTHING and the day it dies the effect it will have on society is ZERO. 

[Grandstand Handicapper]

It would be interesting to know the percentage of breeders that are profitable. The high end of the yearling market, especially trotting fillies, is absolutely crazy, however this is in comparison to all breeding is a small number. The rest of the breeding market I think is getting crushed?

Great question. Who knows. Even if they are profitable, at a certain point, it becomes a question of highest and best use. That's why Armstrong sold. It didn't matter if the kids, grandkids, were involved in the sport/industry. It was simply that Armbro and the farm was an asset. Could the trustees do better elsewhere and/or with less risk. It's an investment decision. If the land is worth more for another use, I would think that farm's days are numbered unfortunately. The more I think about it, the more it starts looking like the MBS/CDS world to me.

[Kenny]

When harness racing goes away, the biggest losers will be the breeders. They do a great job promoting themselves to sell yearlings but what are they doing to help the industry survive?

The breeders are a big part of the problem. As soon as a horse is a "star" they are off to a breeding farm never to be seen again.  Having the best horses on the track is how to attract fans. The root of this problem goes back to the slots handouts which has made the value of all horse increase significantly which make breeding more lucrative.

[Kenny]

All that I am saying that the government, federal,state and local, give out “welfare” to many businesses. You act like novel to harness racing. There are studies which I am sure you know, show that in some states the money given by the government is returned in spades to the job creation and economic impact it has for the state.

The difference is the general public wants those products. The general public could care less about racing.

[Harness Racing Revolution]

The difference is the general public wants those products. The general public could care less about racing.

Holy Shit, you're a Horseplop unicorn!  Exactly. These clowns will never admit the only reason they need the welfare continued is if they lose their jobs in the game they will have to learn REAL SKILLS and find employment in the REAL WORLD. Harness Racing does nothing, it's not even a sought after form of entertainment by anyone in the US. 

[Grandstand Handicapper]

On one hand, the current business model and landscape for a commercial breeder (in the ideal world) is to sell big money yearlings, have the buyers of those yearlings make big money as a 2yo's, come back to the next year's sale, and start the cycle all over again, LOL. Then they create stallions, retire them, syndicate, etc. It keeps the money-making machine for the breeders. On the other hand, they "could" do more to keep horses racing past their 3yo year. But they really can't. They won't. It's counterintuitive and counterproductive to their business model. Now if the tracks, the Hambletonian Society, the BC, and so on-----if they could start to allocate more money toward 3yo's and slowly start to do the same for aged horses, then you have a segment that can counter the breeders. Someone has to start somewhere.

There is no one thing that is going to resolve all of the sport and industry's struggles. Starting with PED's, illegal drugs, chemists, cheats, etc., is a good place to start. Throwing out the garbage is most often a good place to start no matter what you're talking about, LOL. So many other issues are like cutting off one of Hydra's heads! LOL.

[Grandstand Handicapper]

Yes, I think the breeders are a big part of the problem.