New Wagering Records Set On Kentucky Derby and Derby Day Card--Wet Track!

[JT]

Other than the Little Brown Jug, almost no trainers will run their top horses on 1/2-mile tracks, and a few even skip the Jug because of the heats. It wasn't like this in the old days when there were alot more 1/2-mile tracks.

Absolutely correct, but if the purse is high enough they will come. Furthermore and it will happen one day the eliminations could be held at Scioto Downs a week and a half before jug day. I hope that never happens.. but it could. That's why I'd have the jug 3rd of the triple crown races... 2 heats, a test of champions, kinda like the Belmont being the longest race is last.

[Kenny]

BINGO. The sires stakes have definitely taken away from the big grand circuit races. A financial incentive for winning the triple crown is a good idea. Those should be used as prep races for the best of the best for the grand circuit and their calendars should be adjusted accordingly. The last few years the KYSS finals were the weekend before the jug. Bad planning. Why race 2 heats at the LBJ for a total purse of $600,000 when you can race in a sire stakes final for $400,000. If it were me NA Cup 1st, Cane 2nd on Hambletonian weekend with a much bigger purse. I think there was 5 entries last year for the Cane. That's pitiful.  3rd The LBJ. 3 different sized tracks rather than going different distances other  then 1 mile. As the saying goes money talks and bull shit walks. If the triple crown races had the 3 highest purses along with the Meadowlands Pace with an extra incentive for winning the crown it definitely would  help the sport. The LBJ had a 1 million dollar purse 2 years ago and it was the most entries they had had in years

Duel eligibility in KY makes this worse. Many top horses can races in two sire stakes programs.

Harness racing needs a real triple crown with a huge bonus at the end. If a horse wins all three races, they get the bonus. If not, then the bonus is distributed to horse based on points earned by placing in the other races. The points could be arranged such that the horses racing in all three races get the most points. The races should be on different size tracks and at least one being a heat race.

I think racing needs to redistribute the purses by age.  Take 75% of the two year old purse and 50% of the three year old purses and make races with huge purses for older horses. People identify with "stars". This way horses could earn big money for several years.

[Kenny]

Other than the Little Brown Jug, almost no trainers will run their top horses on 1/2-mile tracks, and a few even skip the Jug because of the heats. It wasn't like this in the old days when there were alot more 1/2-mile tracks.

And there were a lot more fans/customers.  Related? I like half mile tracks because i am  much closer to the racing.  On the backstretch at Mohawk the horses are so far away. Heat racing add so much drama.

We also need to go back to the Breeders Crown being one night/day not two.

[Scooteroo]

And there were a lot more fans/customers.  Related? I like half mile tracks because i am  much closer to the racing.  On the backstretch at Mohawk the horses are so far away. Heat racing add so much drama.

We also need to go back to the Breeders Crown being one night/day not two.

I would prefer them all on one night too but don't think it will happen. As I recall the year Pocono Downs had the Breeders Crown all the races were held the same night. I think harness racing copied the Breeder's Cup which runs them on Friday and Saturday.

[Scooteroo]

Absolutely correct, but if the purse is high enough they will come. Furthermore and it will happen one day the eliminations could be held at Scioto Downs a week and a half before jug day. I hope that never happens.. but it could. That's why I'd have the jug 3rd of the triple crown races... 2 heats, a test of champions, kinda like the Belmont being the longest race is last.

I don't think it will happen because too many people would oppose it, I know I would.

[simplify]

I also read that Oak Grove set a handle record on the Monday after the Derby. It helped that they had a decent pick 4 carryover, but without that the handle record still would have been broken

What was the handle? Probably around 1 million....So they could race every day for nearly a YEAR and still not do what the derby did in one race right?

[JT]

What was the handle? Probably around 1 million....So they could race every day for nearly a YEAR and still not do what the derby did in one race right?

I wish you were close but you aren't.. just short of $600,000

[wisha roder]

I was impressed with the purse money until i did googled what it costs to get a horse into the derby. The first 2 finishers were purchased for well over a million each. All horses which were purchased averaged like $450k, trainings at least $50k year,… on and on. Theres a high end that few would ever achieve, the rest are starving like everyone else.

[Bitter Truth]

JT: Had to look it up to fact check your claim that the $1M purse in 2023 drew more horses in
the Jug. You are right. I only went back to 2013 [probably a good thing for your claim] and indeed
there was more BUT nothing really significant. 17 horses in the $1M year. Four years during those
years [2013-2024] there were 15 entered. In 2013 there were actually 19 entered. So was the added
@$350k really beneficial or just wasted tax dollars? I would say unequivocally the latter.

[Harness racer]

I was impressed with the purse money until i did googled what it costs to get a horse into the derby. The first 2 finishers were purchased for well over a million each. All horses which were purchased averaged like $450k, trainings at least $50k year,… on and on. Theres a high end that few would ever achieve, the rest are starving like everyone else.

The winner was homebred, although his mother was purchased for 1.2 million.  And journalism was 828k.  Close enough I guess.  I did the math before also,  very few are even coming close to breaking even.  Even less turning a profit.

[Scooteroo]

Godolphin, the owners of the Derby winner are multi-billionaires and the richest owners in the world, so 1.2 million is pocket change for them.

[Papillon]

The winner was homebred, although his mother was purchased for 1.2 million.  And journalism was 828k.  Close enough I guess.  I did the math before also,  very few are even coming close to breaking even.  Even less turning a profit.

to get a 2yo good enough into a MSW race at Saratoga  will cost you at least $1mil

[Scooteroo]

T-bred racing is obviously a rich man's game. Half of Bob Baffert's owners are billionaires, that's how he ends up with so many great horses.

[Brown jug]

if you go back 15 years or so many years the jug had 3 full fields of 9 horses for eliminations
back to the point of the topic, i am not suggesting that harness racing is going to match the kentucky derby, just suggesting that if harness can mirror some of what works for t breds it might lift the game a bit
lets be honest , what we have now is not really working

[pocketrocketwinner]

if you go back 15 years or so many years the jug had 3 full fields of 9 horses for eliminations
back to the point of the topic, i am not suggesting that harness racing is going to match the kentucky derby, just suggesting that if harness can mirror some of what works for t breds it might lift the game a bit
lets be honest , what we have now is not really working

Outside of the derby, nothing they are doing is working either. Handle is way down over the past few decades. Retail handle way way way down and caw handle way up. Both breeds have enormous problems with their product