Karl on Karl

[Harness racer]

I don't get the hatred for Karl...must be like the Beckwith bullshit.  The more you hear people say he will be the greatest, the more you cheer against.  Karl has had a great career so far, one of the best in history.  Can't deny stats.  But I don't think he is coming back to dominate older horses.

[Grandstand Handicapper]

Racing wise you are correct Tactical Landing did nothing but break as a two year old while Karl won over a million bucks! Breeding wise you are incorrect as Tactical Landing is the SIRE of Karl

And today is Monday. Congratulations on the obvious. Look at the pedigrees and look at what the market said. All the rest is posturing.

[JT]

The price for breeding with Karl is pure speculation at this point. If he comes out and has a great 4 year old campaign his price will go up. However if he goes out and shit's the bed the price will plumit. Seeing as all the specimens they collected will be frozen until next year, we won't know the price until next year It will all depend on how his 4 year old campaign goes. Personally I am glad he is racing this year. I like when the better horses race past their three year old year. The resentment towards him is because 1 individual insisted he would be "remembered" as the GOAT which rubbed alot of people the wrong way.

[Grandstand Handicapper]

The price for breeding with Karl is pure speculation at this point. If he comes out and has a great 4 year old campaign his price will go up. However if he goes out and shit's the bed the price will plumit. Seeing as all the specimens they collected will be frozen until next year, we won't know the price until next year It will all depend on how his 4 year old campaign goes. Personally I am glad he is racing this year. I like when the better horses race past their three year old year...

Dead on perfect. Couldn't agree more. Personally, I found the frozen idea interesting. I guess what is also speculation is whether his fertility issue(s) will be better, worse, or the same next year. Or the year after for that matter.

[Stan durbread]

The price for breeding with Karl is pure speculation at this point. If he comes out and has a great 4 year old campaign his price will go up. However if he goes out and shit's the bed the price will plumit. Seeing as all the specimens they collected will be frozen until next year, we won't know the price until next year It will all depend on how his 4 year old campaign goes. Personally I am glad he is racing this year. I like when the better horses race past their three year old year. The resentment towards him is because 1 individual insisted he would be "remembered" as the GOAT which rubbed alot of people the wrong way.

The frozen semen from this year can not be used for breeding next year. It has to be used in the season collected maybe it will work for overseas sales but not by USTA rules

[The Answer]

The frozen semen from this year can not be used for breeding next year. It has to be used in the season collected maybe it will work for overseas sales but not by USTA rules

Rule changed recently:

The United States Trotting Association (USTA) allows the use of frozen semen for artificial insemination in the breeding season or year following the breeding season, as per a recent amendment to Rule 26.05. If using frozen semen, you must state where the semen was shipped to on the List of Mares Bred form.

[SDST2009]

I don't think you can compare Karl to Tactical Landing. Two very different stallions.....and at 5k apart?

This won't be a popular opinion but I think Tactical Landing is overrated and overpriced.

I am in no way saying he is a bad sire, but look at his stats. He didn't crack the top 5 average per starter for 2, 3 nor aged lists last year. He did fare better in 3yo overall earnings but he had a son win the Hambo, and several other from that crop win stakes events, but with how many foals he puts on the ground he ought to have been higher. He puts a lot of trash on the track, but he can also clearly throw a top-tier foal, and that's what most everyone wants. I would be more than happy to have one, but to breed a mare to him at $25k seems high based on his actual output. $15k was about right based on how he performed as a sire, but I also found it extremely high as a starting point based on what he did on the track himself.

[SDST2009]

The frozen semen from this year can not be used for breeding next year. It has to be used in the season collected maybe it will work for overseas sales but not by USTA rules

Is this correct? I am almost positive they used both Cantab Hall and Bar Hopping frozen for the breeding season a year after their death.

ETA: Nevermind. I see the post above clarified the rule change.

[Stan durbread]

Rule changed recently:

The United States Trotting Association (USTA) allows the use of frozen semen for artificial insemination in the breeding season or year following the breeding season, as per a recent amendment to Rule 26.05. If using frozen semen, you must state where the semen was shipped to on the List of Mares Bred form.

Thanks I missed that rule change

[Stan durbread]

Is this correct? I am almost positive they used both Cantab Hall and Bar Hopping frozen for the breeding season a year after their death.

ETA: Nevermind. I see the post above clarified the rule change.

The only one I have close ties with is the SBSW connections and the frozen semen had to be used in the year he passed

[Chips N Salsa]

If Karl was a super horse then Diamond Creek would have paid the money and they would be standing him stud.  Facts are Facts - He raced no one until Hambo then lucked up and won.  After Hambo when he actually had to race under pressure and against mediocre to decent horses he got crushed.  He never got faster from 2 to 3 and his gate didn't get any better in fact actually got worse.  Yannick was yelling and nursing him the majority of his starts to keep him flat.  Any driver that you talk to behind closed doors will tell you "he's fake and he has no heart" Breeders take those statements very near and dear to their wallet.  Adam is no dummy and listens to other drivers opinion not just Yannick and Nancy telling him bullshit.  The horse did not grow from 3 to 4 and mark my words WILL NOT be any better or mature to compete with 4yo's.  He come to his speed very fast as a 2yo and was dominate but as with all horses that peak to soon they are done quick.  Time will tell but I will go along with DC and bet against.

[Stan durbread]

Karl was managed to almost perfection by “the stallion maker”.  Unfortunately most of his great ones did not make stallions and many had fertility problems. Just like Bill Robinson

[Grandstand Handicapper]

Karl was managed to almost perfection by “the stallion maker”.  Unfortunately most of his great ones did not make stallions and many had fertility problems. Just like Bill Robinson

A not often discussed topic.....what trainers make stallions and what trainers don't.

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

If Karl was a super horse then Diamond Creek would have paid the money and they would be standing him stud.  Facts are Facts - He raced no one until Hambo then lucked up and won.  After Hambo when he actually had to race under pressure and against mediocre to decent horses he got crushed.  He never got faster from 2 to 3 and his gate didn't get any better in fact actually got worse.  Yannick was yelling and nursing him the majority of his starts to keep him flat.  Any driver that you talk to behind closed doors will tell you "he's fake and he has no heart" Breeders take those statements very near and dear to their wallet.  Adam is no dummy and listens to other drivers opinion not just Yannick and Nancy telling him bullshit.  The horse did not grow from 3 to 4 and mark my words WILL NOT be any better or mature to compete with 4yo's.  He come to his speed very fast as a 2yo and was dominate but as with all horses that peak to soon they are done quick.  Time will tell but I will go along with DC and bet against.

Drugs? Alcohol? Both?

[Call Sign Merlin]

He is built fine like a filly - that will make it very tough on him as an aged horse to knock heads.  I do think it’s a pretty weak group with so many of the best heading to stud but a few of them will pop up.  Ake will find a few, Periculum should be back, Logan Park, Oh Well, Highland Kismet, etc.