What's with Overheiser's horses ?

[Generation XYZ]

I actually don’t hate anyone. I talked to Erv the other night when he was here. Only thing I dislike are horse killers or abusers. Erv has gotten away with a lot of bs over the years starting with that one horse he said was a mare and after the horse turned 6 years old and made a million dollars, it was discovered it was a colt. Never gave back a penny and got to race against fillies and mares for four years and accumulated over a million dollars. The is no way Erv didn’t know that wasn’t a colt. He is way too smart of a horseman. It’s bullshit like that why I don’t care for Erv, but I don’t hate him.

So maybe the horse was a COLT that identified as a MARE?

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

So maybe the horse was a COLT that identified as a MARE?

LOL

[COUNSELOR]

DO NOT KNOW THESE FOLKS AND ONLY KNOW THEY PURCHASED MANY HORSES AND IT IS POSSIBLE THAT IT IS THE END OF THE YEAR AND THE OWNER DECIDED TO SELL AT A LOSS IN ORDER TO GENERATE TAX LOSSES THAT CAN BE TAKEN THIS YEAR---MANY OF THESE LOSSES IF LESS THAN 6 MONTHS CAN BE TAKEN DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR AGAINST ORDINARY INCOME.   WHY CARRY THESE OVER IF A TAX LOSS CAN BE CLAIMED IN 2023 AND SAVE THESE FOLKS BIG DOLLARS OFF THE 2023 RETURN.

I DO NOT KNOW THEIR SITUATION OR PARTICULARS BUT A TAX LOSS IS EQUIVALENT TO POSITIVE CASH FLOW IF IT DOES IN FACT REDUCE THE TAX LIABILITY INSTANTLY.  MANY OF THESE FOLKS HAVE TAX ATTORNEYS POINTING OUT DIRECTIONS TO SAVE $$$$ THIS YEAR.   

MANY YEARLINGS CAN BE EXPENSED ---100% IN 2023 IF PURCHASED IN 2023    THIS IS A SECTION 179 WRITEOFF.   RACEHORSES CAN BE EXPENSED IF OWNED LESS THAN 6 MONTHS.   OVER 6 MONTHS IT BECOMES A LONG TERM CAPITAL GAIN OR LOSS WHICH DOES NOT HELP AS MUCH AS THE SHORT TERM.

JUST A THOUGHT OF WHY MANY FOLKS SELL AT YEAR END.   

[Balmoral buzz]

DO NOT KNOW THESE FOLKS AND ONLY KNOW THEY PURCHASED MANY HORSES AND IT IS POSSIBLE THAT IT IS THE END OF THE YEAR AND THE OWNER DECIDED TO SELL AT A LOSS IN ORDER TO GENERATE TAX LOSSES THAT CAN BE TAKEN THIS YEAR---MANY OF THESE LOSSES IF LESS THAN 6 MONTHS CAN BE TAKEN DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR AGAINST ORDINARY INCOME.   WHY CARRY THESE OVER IF A TAX LOSS CAN BE CLAIMED IN 2023 AND SAVE THESE FOLKS BIG DOLLARS OFF THE 2023 RETURN.

I DO NOT KNOW THEIR SITUATION OR PARTICULARS BUT A TAX LOSS IS EQUIVALENT TO POSITIVE CASH FLOW IF IT DOES IN FACT REDUCE THE TAX LIABILITY INSTANTLY.  MANY OF THESE FOLKS HAVE TAX ATTORNEYS POINTING OUT DIRECTIONS TO SAVE $$$$ THIS YEAR.   

MANY YEARLINGS CAN BE EXPENSED ---100% IN 2023 IF PURCHASED IN 2023    THIS IS A SECTION 179 WRITEOFF.   RACEHORSES CAN BE EXPENSED IF OWNED LESS THAN 6 MONTHS.   OVER 6 MONTHS IT BECOMES A LONG TERM CAPITAL GAIN OR LOSS WHICH DOES NOT HELP AS MUCH AS THE SHORT TERM.

JUST A THOUGHT OF WHY MANY FOLKS SELL AT YEAR END.   

Thanks counselor. As in this case, overhiser and lucPark lost their proverbial asses this year. For the money they spent versus money they took in, let’s just say it wasn’t a pretty picture

[COUNSELOR]

MANY BROKERAGE HOUSES PUT TOGETHER TAX PACKAGES USING HORSES AS THEIR MAIN INVESTMENT SINCE THE TAX LAWS ARE SO GENEROUS FOR HORSE RACING.

IN THE OLD DAYS, MANY DEALS SUCH AS ALMAHURST FARMS, SARATOGA STANDARDBREDS, LPG STANDARDBREDS, ETC. WERE PUT TOGETHER WITH THE HOPE OF A PROFIT BUT AT WORST CASE A TAX LOSS WHICH IN ESSENCE IS POSITIVE CASH FLOW SINCE THESE WRITEOFFS CAN BE TAKEN AGAINST ORDINARY INCOME FROM THEIR OTHER CAREERS OR INVESTMENTS. 

THESE TAX LOSSES GENERALY GENERATED HUGE CASH FOW SINCE TAX PAYMENTS WERE REFUNDED AS WELL AS LOSSES THAT COULD BE CARRIED BACK THREE YEARS AND FORWARD FOREVER.   SMART MEN---AS EVIDENCED BY PRSIDENT TRUMP PAY VERY LITTLE IN TAXES.   I BELIEVE THEY CLAIM PRESIDENT TRUMP ONLY PAID $750 IN TAX A FEW YEARS AGO AND I AM SURE HIS ACCOUNTANTS ARE THE BEST THERE IS.

MONEY GOES TO MONEY!

WHAT BETTER WRITEOFF IS THERE THAN HORSES WITH THE DEPRECIATION AND BONUS DEPRECIATION AS WELL AS THE SECTION 179.   WITH A GREAT ACCOUNTANT THE BUSINESS CAN MAKE SENSE SINCE YOUR CASH FLOW IS THE WRITEOFFS GENERATING REFUNDS OR TAX LOSSES.

JUST A THOUGHT.

[Locked in with pace]

i don't think he needs more write-offs. With what he paid for these horses, and then adding in the stakes payments, then the training bills ++++++, HE HAD TO HAVE GONE FOR HIS BALLS

[Grandstand Handicapper]

I've been doing this a long time. What I learned is that tax laws are very fluid, always changing, and certainly not simple. It's easy to say write off this, depreciate that, offset this, and so on. The Wall St. deals of the 80's and ending around 1990 were designed and structured in a very specific way to -- yes -- take advantage of then current tax laws (even though they were structured as LP's; under then current tax laws, the tax benefits were not limited to "passive" categorization). Almahurst, Saratoga Standardbreds, Dreamaire, and others were the well known ones. Some of these were very similar to the infamous real estate syndications and partnerships, which offered virtually 100% deduction in year one. Some of them even went further and offered a tax credit. While a deduction is valuable, a credit is a dollar for dollar reduction (not deduction) of the tax liability you owe. LPG was Lou Guida and while that was designed similarly to the others, he truly wanted to be King and was truly motivated to dominate the sport and make money.

Most of that, if not all, changed and ended with the TRA of 1986 and the OBRA of 1990. Today's tax laws are far more different. I don't know about this guy's situation, but it's rare to see someone buy a horse for big money, have him be a flop or close to it, and then turn around and sell him by calendar year-end. Sure you may get some benefit, but you still took a big hit.

[rainman2]

Thanks counselor. As in this case, overhiser and lucPark lost their proverbial asses this year. For the money they spent versus money they took in, let’s just say it wasn’t a pretty picture

The jealousy of the haves and the have nots continues on horseplop!
The life of a back seat account continues!

[COUNSELOR]

I PERSONALLY DO OT KNOW THIS FELLA NOR WHT HE DOES TO GENERATE INCOME BUT IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE MAN IS VERY SUCCESSFUL AND THESE WRITEOFFS COULD IN FACT OFFSET INCOME EARNED IN A DIFFERENT VOCATION OR BUSINESS.   AS YOU ARE AWARE THE SECTION 179 OF THE IRS CODE IS VERY GENEROUS AND YOU CAN BASICALLY DEDUCT MORE THAT THE COST OF THE HORSE.   

I AM NOT AN ACCOUNT NOT CLAIM TO BE BUT TRUTHFULLY, I TRULY BELIEVE THE MASS LIQUIDATION HAS A PURPOSE.  WHAT IT IS I DO NOT KNOW BUT THERE IS A SENSE TO THE MADNESS.   

TRUTHFULLY, THIS FELLAS LOSES ARE LUNCH MONEY TO SO MANY.  WE SOMETIMES FORGET THAT THE MONEY TO BUY A HORSE IS NOTHNG COMPARED TO MANY WEALTHY INDIVIDUALS.

I DO NOT THINK THIS IS A FIRESALE----I BELEIVE IT IS YEAR END TAX STRATEGIES AND ESTATE PLANNING.   IT IS TOO ORGANIZED TO BE A PANIC SELL   

EITHER WAY I WISH THIS FELLA THE BEST OF LUCK FOR WHATEVER REASON HE IS MOVING SO MUCH STOCK.   THERE IS ALWAYS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS---MAYBE HE IS JUST ANXIOUS TO CLEAN UP THE BOOKS.   

[Generation XYZ]

I PERSONALLY DO OT KNOW THIS FELLA NOR WHT HE DOES TO GENERATE INCOME BUT IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE MAN IS VERY SUCCESSFUL AND THESE WRITEOFFS COULD IN FACT OFFSET INCOME EARNED IN A DIFFERENT VOCATION OR BUSINESS.   AS YOU ARE AWARE THE SECTION 179 OF THE IRS CODE IS VERY GENEROUS AND YOU CAN BASICALLY DEDUCT MORE THAT THE COST OF THE HORSE.   

I AM NOT AN ACCOUNT NOT CLAIM TO BE BUT TRUTHFULLY, I TRULY BELIEVE THE MASS LIQUIDATION HAS A PURPOSE.  WHAT IT IS I DO NOT KNOW BUT THERE IS A SENSE TO THE MADNESS.   

TRUTHFULLY, THIS FELLAS LOSES ARE LUNCH MONEY TO SO MANY.  WE SOMETIMES FORGET THAT THE MONEY TO BUY A HORSE IS NOTHNG COMPARED TO MANY WEALTHY INDIVIDUALS.

I DO NOT THINK THIS IS A FIRESALE----I BELEIVE IT IS YEAR END TAX STRATEGIES AND ESTATE PLANNING.   IT IS TOO ORGANIZED TO BE A PANIC SELL   

EITHER WAY I WISH THIS FELLA THE BEST OF LUCK FOR WHATEVER REASON HE IS MOVING SO MUCH STOCK.   THERE IS ALWAYS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS---MAYBE HE IS JUST ANXIOUS TO CLEAN UP THE BOOKS.

To answer a few of the questions. Depending upon how aggressive his depreciation schedules are, may play a big role into a mass liquidation of the bloodstock.  Also it me be a simple sell down to focus on a smaller stable, stakes horses only, or to show a great loss if horses were to sell under estimated values.

[Brown jug]

you can be sure they were sold at a significant loss