Author Topic: Burke suspension NOW?  (Read 9455 times)

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Brown jug

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2024, 07:00:32 PM »
valid point harnessfan
there would be some growing pains if the sport truly wanted to be legit
some owners/trainers would have to adjust,
perhaps some owners give some horses to other trainers either  from the beginning or once they qualify and see what they have

the problem currently is we have kicked the can so far down the road that what we see today looks normal  with a few trainers controlling 90% of the horses , especially the stake /grand circuit ones
and based on a numbers game the smaller owners/trainers are basically shut out in the current system

Miguel_Sanchez

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2024, 07:28:27 PM »
Yes, unless you use Alagna, Burke, Toscano, Takter, Pellng, Ryder, or Noel Daley you have zero chance in the Grand Circuit.  Throw in Ake for the trotters.

dinkadoo

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2024, 07:31:23 PM »
maybe the groom who peed in the stall is a bleeder ?

Brown jug

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2024, 07:38:29 PM »
agreed with your trainer list , in todays climate
it would take a while to readjust the balance
of course the list you provide get all the best yearlings to start with  and if they miss a few they likely buy them from the small guy who cant afford  to not sell

Stan durbread

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2024, 08:16:01 PM »
Y’all going to crap yourself when on next week list it says under appeal

Grandstand Handicapper

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2024, 08:30:11 PM »
I'm no fan of Burke. Unless it's some exotic, designer drug that has no place on the racetrack/farm, I have no problem with a trainer appealing a suspension. There MUST be uniform, universal standard rules that apply everywhere and have reciprocity. If you don't have that, your model is a joke. I also have no problem on a first offense taking the days when it's convenient. Forcing a trainer to take a suspension when he has a horse in a stakes race is not the answer in my mind. Too much potential collateral damage. Second offense, force the trainer to take the days during the meet where the positive occured and have every state honor it. Third offense, immediate suspension. Any penalty is deferred during an appeal, but lengthened if found guilty. Something along these lines.

However, this is going to be very difficult and will cost more than current to inforce. Backstretch and farms. Even if horses are coming from authorized, governed training centers, it's hard to police and govern them. But the industry must.

I admire Gural for everything he's done. However, I don't think he played fair when it came to Burke, and possibly another of his trainers. I want to see the details before I say he was wrong. I don't buy into the race office needs so and so to fill the entry box. I also don't buy into nobody wants to go against so and so because he'll boycott your overnight races. People said the same thing about David Brooks and the market would fall apart if he sold all his horses. People are saying similar things about Howard Taylor. There is no one owner, not even Burke and his partners, who are bigger than the business or the sport. If someone ever does become bigger, then you no longer have a sport of a business.

SwankToliverA

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2024, 09:41:25 PM »
was Ronnie Boy at the ohha awards banquet? if so how does that look? a trainer accepting awards while serving a suspension. thats one hell of a look!

Of course he was there. You can skip through the OHHA Awards Banquet and  see him on stage quite a bit.
The industry doesn't care how it looks.

shamrock stable

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2024, 09:47:15 PM »
The only way it will care how it looks is when it starts costing them money. I think ohiobshould do some out of competition testing. Maybe some barn searches.

Mailbox Money

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2024, 01:04:39 AM »
Gr8 idea! The only thing that the jurisdictions are worried about is who will pay for it!

The Exporter

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2024, 05:47:32 AM »
I'm no fan of Burke. Unless it's some exotic, designer drug that has no place on the racetrack/farm, I have no problem with a trainer appealing a suspension. There MUST be uniform, universal standard rules that apply everywhere and have reciprocity. If you don't have that, your model is a joke. I also have no problem on a first offense taking the days when it's convenient. Forcing a trainer to take a suspension when he has a horse in a stakes race is not the answer in my mind. Too much potential collateral damage. Second offense, force the trainer to take the days during the meet where the positive occured and have every state honor it. Third offense, immediate suspension. Any penalty is deferred during an appeal, but lengthened if found guilty. Something along these lines.

However, this is going to be very difficult and will cost more than current to inforce. Backstretch and farms. Even if horses are coming from authorized, governed training centers, it's hard to police and govern them. But the industry must.

I admire Gural for everything he's done. However, I don't think he played fair when it came to Burke, and possibly another of his trainers. I want to see the details before I say he was wrong. I don't buy into the race office needs so and so to fill the entry box. I also don't buy into nobody wants to go against so and so because he'll boycott your overnight races. People said the same thing about David Brooks and the market would fall apart if he sold all his horses. People are saying similar things about Howard Taylor. There is no one owner, not even Burke and his partners, who are bigger than the business or the sport. If someone ever does become bigger, then you no longer have a sport of a business.
What good does any of this do when you cant test for what people are using? What you will accomplish is widening the gap between the carless overage of therapeutic meds from small and large stables, all the while the true PED users continue to cash in. 

shamrock stable

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2024, 07:37:20 AM »
You can get money by raising licensing fees. There's plenty of money in the purse pools. There is plenty of money. Maybe the owners just have to pay.

The Exporter

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2024, 08:54:04 AM »
It was not long ago, New York State did not allocate enough money to testing and the lab, Cornell University I believe did not test anything. So, when the word got out, they taxed the owners with an entrance fee. So, some owners are funding some of the testing burden.
I also recall around 2011, NY banned steroids. Yet, they did not fund testing. It was over a year before funding was in place for steroid testing. The sharp guys were roiding all along.
Drug testing has always been a cat and mouse game. If the rewards are great enough, there will always be those willing to take the risk.

bond

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2024, 09:57:13 AM »
It was not long ago, New York State did not allocate enough money to testing and the lab, Cornell University I believe did not test anything. So, when the word got out, they taxed the owners with an entrance fee. So, some owners are funding some of the testing burden.
I also recall around 2011, NY banned steroids. Yet, they did not fund testing. It was over a year before funding was in place for steroid testing. The sharp guys were roiding all along.
Drug testing has always been a cat and mouse game. If the rewards are great enough, there will always be those willing to take the risk.
There is something rotten in the NY State testing IMHO. I cant get over the fact that Lou Pena had 1600+ violations going inside the recommended withdrawal times BUT also had used steroids-which 100% would come up positive at the Meadowlands or any decent laboratory -but yet--no problem in NY . If certain trainers/Vets get "tipped off" which medications are not tested for--or told you can go closer to post time than what everyone else has been told--you would have an unfair advantage.  When anabolic steroids were supposedly banned in NY--certain trainers "knew" you could still use them ie it was "going through the box".
IMHO--Maylin the head of this sham--should have been fired long ago after the Lou Pena affairs. I wouldnt trust this phony with a bargepole. NY is a great advertisement --to have drug testing Federally controlled by a single First Class Testing facility---where protocol is tightly controlled.
IMHO---the actions in NY and similar--is one more reason racing has gone downhill.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2024, 10:01:40 AM by bond »

Parked

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2024, 12:22:58 PM »
There is something rotten in the NY State testing IMHO. I cant get over the fact that Lou Pena had 1600+ violations going inside the recommended withdrawal times BUT also had used steroids-which 100% would come up positive at the Meadowlands or any decent laboratory -but yet--no problem in NY . If certain trainers/Vets get "tipped off" which medications are not tested for--or told you can go closer to post time than what everyone else has been told--you would have an unfair advantage.  When anabolic steroids were supposedly banned in NY--certain trainers "knew" you could still use them ie it was "going through the box".

I expect if you did not fear repercussions you could blow things apart in N Y. 
IMHO--Maylin the head of this sham--should have been fired long ago after the Lou Pena affairs. I wouldnt trust this phony with a bargepole. NY is a great advertisement --to have drug testing Federally controlled by a single First Class Testing facility---where protocol is tightly controlled.
IMHO---the actions in NY and similar--is one more reason racing has gone downhill.

Mailbox Money

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Re: Burke suspension NOW?
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2024, 04:33:11 PM »
Just because you have a Grand Circuit horse, doesn't mean that you can get a Grand Circuit driver! 11.wp 11.wp

 

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