Were they really top trainers? I mean, I never followed Chicago racing daily. Always kept an eye on it, a few horses here and there, and always, always watched the stakes races. I kind of remember one of the brothers being in the top 10, maybe even the top 5, but I think that was for a meet or two, a year or two, etc.-----but I don't remember them being a top trainer or major factor for any substantial period time. Maybe a flash in the pan kind of thing. Weren't they more of a face in the crowd? I remember various agents trying to sell some of their horses every now and then.