Author Topic: Track Speed Variants  (Read 10656 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

bond

  • Elite
  • ******
  • Posts: 2316
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2024, 02:47:40 PM »
Because I wasn’t clever enough to find recent track speed variants anywhere online, I computed them myself by creating a database of horses with consecutive races (fast tracks, no breaks, no layoffs, no interference) at two different tracks and tabulated their time differences.

FWIW these are the results after 5,362 such races :

1:54.0 Lex1
1:54.0 DuQ1
1:54.1 M1
1:54.2 Spr1
1:54.3 Haw1
1:55.1 OakGr5/8
1:55.2 Wbsb7/8
1:55.3 HoP7/8
1:55.3 Phl5/8
1:55.3 Mea5/8
1:55.3 PRc5/8
1:55.3 VD3/4
1:55.4 ScD5/8
1:55.4 CbRn5/8
1:56.0 MVR5/8
1:56.0 PcD5/8
1:56.0 Dtn5/8
1:56.1 Aces5/8
1:56.1 TgDn5/8
1:56.2 Dela
1:56.3 RcR5/8
1:56.3 DD5/8
1:57.2 YR
1:57.4 Nfld
1:57.4 Stga
1:58.1 Btva
1:58.1 Fhld
1:58.1 MR
1:58.2 BR
1:58.3 Har
1:58.3 OD
1:59.0 Bang
1:59.3 Cumb

Nice work!!

Did you account if the same driver was used for the same horse?
Also--the speed the starting car has at the start--is that the same at all tracks?
The track maintenance guy also is a factor--sometimes he uses a harrow on the track other times just the screen Ive noticed but the track is rated as "fast" but is it?
Post positions--was that also included?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2024, 02:50:33 PM by bond »

helpplease

  • Open / FFA
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2024, 03:14:42 PM »
Because I wasn’t clever enough to find recent track speed variants anywhere online, I computed them myself by creating a database of horses with consecutive races (fast tracks, no breaks, no layoffs, no interference) at two different tracks and tabulated their time differences.

FWIW these are the results after 5,362 such races :

1:54.0 Lex1
1:54.0 DuQ1
1:54.1 M1
1:54.2 Spr1
1:54.3 Haw1
1:55.1 OakGr5/8
1:55.2 Wbsb7/8
1:55.3 HoP7/8
1:55.3 Phl5/8
1:55.3 Mea5/8
1:55.3 PRc5/8
1:55.3 VD3/4
1:55.4 ScD5/8
1:55.4 CbRn5/8
1:56.0 MVR5/8
1:56.0 PcD5/8
1:56.0 Dtn5/8
1:56.1 Aces5/8
1:56.1 TgDn5/8
1:56.2 Dela
1:56.3 RcR5/8
1:56.3 DD5/8
1:57.2 YR
1:57.4 Nfld
1:57.4 Stga
1:58.1 Btva
1:58.1 Fhld
1:58.1 MR
1:58.2 BR
1:58.3 Har
1:58.3 OD
1:59.0 Bang
1:59.3 Cumb
Nice work A Merliner.

seen2much

  • Elite
  • ******
  • Posts: 2388
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2024, 03:37:40 PM »
That is a lot of work to put in. Thanks for doing it.

pocketrocketwinner

  • Stakes Horse
  • *****
  • Posts: 1288
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2024, 06:55:24 PM »
The Potomac at the rosecroft went faster than the breeders crown , the dayton stake, the hoosier derby, the Canadian pacing derby


gh2009

  • Stakes Horse
  • *****
  • Posts: 1606
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2024, 07:24:50 PM »
There was also no action at all in the race because Ruthless Hanover looped the field at the start or else they probably go even faster. Dexter won the race by grabbing the pocket at the start. Not a bad time considering Rosecroft is one of the two slowest 5/8-mile tracks in the country according to track variant expert "A Merliner".
« Last Edit: November 17, 2024, 07:33:34 PM by gh2009 »

Kenny

  • Stakes Horse
  • *****
  • Posts: 670
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2024, 07:46:09 PM »
Everything single thing you wrote is false.

The variants are computed using the time differentials of the SAME horse racing at two different tracks in CONSECUTIVE races, which eliminates track class bias.

Further, the variants account for the temperature differential of the two consecutive races (18.6 degrees/sec) which eliminates weather bias.

Rosecroft and Dover and not “extremely fast”. They are, instead, the slowest two 5/8s in the country.

No way Delaware is faster than Rosecroft.

gh2009

  • Stakes Horse
  • *****
  • Posts: 1606
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2024, 07:48:12 PM »
I never said Dover was faster than Rosecroft. I said Dover was one of the fastest 5/8-mile tracks around and Rosecroft is also extremely fast, even though the track variant expert calls them two of the slowest 5/8-mile tracks in the country.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2024, 08:18:23 PM by gh2009 »

A Merliner

  • NW-1
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2024, 08:23:42 PM »
No way Delaware is faster than Rosecroft.

That would be true except for the teeny-weeny little problem that all the data says Delaware is, in fact, faster.

gh2009

  • Stakes Horse
  • *****
  • Posts: 1606
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2024, 08:29:11 PM »
In my opinion, both tracks are very fast, and I'll leave it at that. Arguing which is faster doesn't really matter to me.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2024, 08:33:09 PM by gh2009 »

pocketrocketwinner

  • Stakes Horse
  • *****
  • Posts: 1288
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2024, 08:32:06 PM »
The data shows that Hawthorne is just a few ticks slower than Lexington, I think most people know that is ridiculous

kantseeback

  • Elite
  • ******
  • Posts: 4447
  • TDS HAS INFESTED THIS PLACE LIKE A ROACH NEST
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2024, 08:40:31 PM »
There is one thing that makes those charts completely useless. JUICE.
Did the trainer juice the horse in one race and not the other?

A Merliner

  • NW-1
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2024, 09:20:09 PM »
The data shows that Hawthorne is just a few ticks slower than Lexington, I think most people know that is ridiculous

And how exactly might most people “know” such a thing?

Intuition? Feelings? Tea leaves? Ouija boards?

Or do they, instead, systematically accumulate and numerically evaluate the time differentials between Hawthorne and Lexington and every other track in the country?

I humbly suggest that essentially nobody, much less “most people”, have ever done the latter.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2024, 09:29:08 PM by A Merliner »

Grandstand Handicapper

  • Elite
  • ******
  • Posts: 2513
  • Which wolf wins? The one you feed.
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2024, 09:47:22 PM »
I once heard Ross Croghan say, statistics don't lie, but statisticians do. LOL.


Kenny

  • Stakes Horse
  • *****
  • Posts: 670
Re: Track Speed Variants
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2024, 09:39:40 AM »
That would be true except for the teeny-weeny little problem that all the data says Delaware is, in fact, faster.

That is how we know the analysis is not always valid.

 

shout out

Refresh History
  • Sound off !
  • Trigger: Never left, always peering in from his hole, must of missed having sleepless nights, I'll oblige if you will!  ngc3
    April 07, 2026, 09:42:39 PM
  • rainman2: ALERT!  Foalin (pedo) found his way back to plop!  Maybe kitty will come on and discuss racing instead of...[
    April 07, 2026, 09:14:55 PM
  • Trigger: Maybe it's us...and they're perfectly normal.  One dude's fav word is pedophile, the other kitty.  Nothing to see here  ngc3
    April 07, 2026, 07:57:03 PM
  • rainman2: how come darnoldrocks 'butt-buddy' hasn't come to rescue him?
    April 07, 2026, 07:30:08 PM
  • Trigger: Dear MAGA Ploppers, please PM Chihuahua Cock, support his threads, he's havng a nervous breakdown.  He got rainmaned2'd.  At this time he's hiding in a mousehole yelling out "here kitty kitty kitty"...all this winning, take a moment and help your friend.  Thank you!  ;D
    April 07, 2026, 06:11:46 PM
  • Trigger: Thank you Jesus for not snuffing out Anthony MacDonald, so he can drive another day  ngc3 and Grandstand Handicapper for posting another ingenius quip...kill me instead!  ngc3  Pleeeaaase!  ;D
    April 06, 2026, 11:01:38 PM
  • Trigger: I'll go back to losing you have a whole universe to watch over ngc3
    April 06, 2026, 09:51:07 PM
  • Trigger: Thank you Jesus...3 1sts, a second, and a 5th and no breaks!
    April 06, 2026, 09:50:02 PM
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2026, SimplePortal