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Harness Racing / Re: Computer Assisted Wagering - Elite Turf Club
« Last post by Grandstand Handicapper on Today at 10:55:27 PM »Some tracks, and you will see more, are starting to cut them off with X minutes to post. So.....CAW is not illegal.....but it certainly isn't equal to the other players. Plenty of major players have met with track management and started saying they will take their business elsewhere. One major player at the Meadowlands did. Another major player at another track told track management he was leaving, he did, and the track cut off the CAW's with 3 minutes to post just to get that player back.
I think every track should have a 3 minute to post cut off for all CAW's. There's an indirect benefit here by the way.....That way the conspiracy theorists can feel they have more credibility when they scream about open windows. LOL. I can only speak to what I know first-hand at the Meadowlands. After making my bones in NY racing, I was at the Meadowlands the first night they opened. And I am still there. I don't bet for fun, sport, hobby or anything else. It is one way I make my living in this industry. So, in 2013, the Meadowlands made a deal with a CAW team ---- some very well known players who hooked up with a few techie guys were looking to diversify their original action. Maybe they were thinking the CAW would become their primary action. I know two of the guys and they both thought different things. Anyway, while I don't know it for a fact, I believe the initial contract called for the team to commit to $250k per card. What I do know for a fact is that the Meadowlands negotiated this deal and did their due diligence over the course of months. This discussion dragged on and it was because the Meadowlands was very slow to say yes. They spoke to the SBOANJ, horsemen, and yes, they spoke to some of their major players.
In the end, they said yes. At the beginning, when they counted up the money----the Meadowlands claimed 50% of the "increase in handle" came from the team. However, I know if that number was legit, I know for a fact that number shrank big time over time. That means the CAW is betting the same amount of money, but there was more money coming in from other sources. That still doesn't make it right or healthy, because the massive last minute odds changes weren't happening initially.
The question really is ---- would the CAW teams bet, and win, without concessions from the track(s)? Bet? Yes, but not for long. Win? No, that's why they wouldn't bet for long, LOL. People don't understand the CAW model, but let's just say they are not looking to make monster scores. They are looking to come out in the black WHEN you factor in the rebate. The margins are small. Frank Fabian probably knows more about CAW than anyone and he's spoken a lot on it. Almost every major player in the game knows him due to his role with the TRPB. He was already on this when the Uvari bust went down, and that was in what, 04 or 05? I met Frank in the late 90's and he was very much ahead of his time, but also whatever was going on at the time. In the harness game, the massive last minute odds changes were not common until recently and they were far more common in thoroughbreds than harness. Yes it has happened in harness racing and while it does happen more these days in harness racing, there are numerous other reasons why it's happening.
In the end, I say 3 minutes and you are cut off. While you are at.....reduce the takeout!!! LOL.
I think every track should have a 3 minute to post cut off for all CAW's. There's an indirect benefit here by the way.....That way the conspiracy theorists can feel they have more credibility when they scream about open windows. LOL. I can only speak to what I know first-hand at the Meadowlands. After making my bones in NY racing, I was at the Meadowlands the first night they opened. And I am still there. I don't bet for fun, sport, hobby or anything else. It is one way I make my living in this industry. So, in 2013, the Meadowlands made a deal with a CAW team ---- some very well known players who hooked up with a few techie guys were looking to diversify their original action. Maybe they were thinking the CAW would become their primary action. I know two of the guys and they both thought different things. Anyway, while I don't know it for a fact, I believe the initial contract called for the team to commit to $250k per card. What I do know for a fact is that the Meadowlands negotiated this deal and did their due diligence over the course of months. This discussion dragged on and it was because the Meadowlands was very slow to say yes. They spoke to the SBOANJ, horsemen, and yes, they spoke to some of their major players.
In the end, they said yes. At the beginning, when they counted up the money----the Meadowlands claimed 50% of the "increase in handle" came from the team. However, I know if that number was legit, I know for a fact that number shrank big time over time. That means the CAW is betting the same amount of money, but there was more money coming in from other sources. That still doesn't make it right or healthy, because the massive last minute odds changes weren't happening initially.
The question really is ---- would the CAW teams bet, and win, without concessions from the track(s)? Bet? Yes, but not for long. Win? No, that's why they wouldn't bet for long, LOL. People don't understand the CAW model, but let's just say they are not looking to make monster scores. They are looking to come out in the black WHEN you factor in the rebate. The margins are small. Frank Fabian probably knows more about CAW than anyone and he's spoken a lot on it. Almost every major player in the game knows him due to his role with the TRPB. He was already on this when the Uvari bust went down, and that was in what, 04 or 05? I met Frank in the late 90's and he was very much ahead of his time, but also whatever was going on at the time. In the harness game, the massive last minute odds changes were not common until recently and they were far more common in thoroughbreds than harness. Yes it has happened in harness racing and while it does happen more these days in harness racing, there are numerous other reasons why it's happening.
In the end, I say 3 minutes and you are cut off. While you are at.....reduce the takeout!!! LOL.
