HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: bestbetter on April 28, 2025, 04:09:47 AM
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I have zero knowledge of behind the scenes. Just curious what you vets think...
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I have zero knowledge of behind the scenes. Just curious what you vets think...
You can bet that at least one horse in each race had something done to them which breaks the rules. Thus ALL the races are corrupted.
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Back in the "golden era" of harness racing with packed stands and millions bet I can only imagine how much money the drivers and trainers extracted from those pools on a nightly basis...
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Back in the "golden era" of harness racing with packed stands and millions bet I can only imagine how much money the drivers and trainers extracted from those pools on a nightly basis...
I used to know a few trainers and 1 or 2 drivers who bet and liked their horses almost all the time, but most of the time they bet they lost, so just because you're betting doesn't mean you're winning or extracting money from the pools.
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There were millions taken out by drivers.
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There were also millions lost. I know for a fact Donald Dancer used to lose big money betting at Brandywine Raceway because he bet too much on his horse and didn't win often enough.
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You can bet that at least one horse in each race had something done to them which breaks the rules. Thus ALL the races are corrupted.
100%
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93%
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Very little. There’s NO money in the pools to bet more can be made by racing to win! That’s one of the few positives of low handles.
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100%
Do you think they're even cheating in the big stake races with detention barns?
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100%. Every single race, at every single track, has multiple horses that are not racing on hay and oats. Some have the cutting-edge designer stuff, some are just tubing, some just play fast and loose trying to sneak a little Banamine or other therapeutic by.
Less than 5% are probably racing totally clean. And I'm being charitable.
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Corrupt from top to bottom
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All the races where horses are driven to stay in the same class (not win) are corrupt (a lot)
All the races where horses are driven to intentionally not finish in the top 5 (to drop a class next week) are corrupt (more than a lot)
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85-90%
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The smart drivers made their money and held on to it and retired early. The degenerates pissed their money away and didn.t hold on to it.
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I have zero knowledge of behind the scenes. Just curious what you vets think...
Every lost bet is a fixed race. Every won bet is brilliant handicapping
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Every harness race has a percentage of corruption. Whether it is driver's lack of effort for gambling, driver's lack of effort for classification or driver's lack of effort due to horse's fitness, in any given race at least half the field isn't trying to win while the others who are trying to win are loaded to the gills with an array of drugs. I promise you I am not exaggerating.
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Extremely rare for a race to be "corrupted" these days. Any cheaters eventually get caught and suspended.
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Every harness race has a percentage of corruption. Whether it is driver's lack of effort for gambling, driver's lack of effort for classification or driver's lack of effort due to horse's fitness, in any given race at least half the field isn't trying to win while the others who are trying to win are loaded to the gills with an array of drugs. I promise you I am not exaggerating.
"half" the field? Ya that's an exaggeration.
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Every lost bet is a fixed race. Every won bet is brilliant handicapping
YES! ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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"half" the field? Ya that's an exaggeration.
YES! ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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If you mean a trainer has to do something to compete the percentage is very high. Some aren't using what the top cheats are. How else could you win a race? It's insane what Engblom, Burke, Bongiorno, Alexander, & many, many others are doing. In my opinion it forces trainers to cheat to stay afloat.
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"half" the field? Ya that's an exaggeration.
If you don't think in a 10 horse field that 5 of the horses are dead, you are nuts and probably never raced a horse in your life.
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When you say 5 horses in a 10-horse field are dead, are you factoring in the # of horses who have a legitimate chance to win, because in most 10 horse fields 2 or 3 horses probably have no shot to win under any circumstances because they're overmatched. You also have big longshots with outside posts who lay back their only shot is to sit on the rail and hope for a check. Are you counting them as dead horses not trying to win? There's a difference between not trying to win and knowing you can't win. I'm not trying to argue with you, just making that point.
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Horse missed time for vet repairs/sickness etc. Draws in tough...no go
Horse missed time vet repairs/sickness...drops down, good post...is a go
The gamblers need to start thinking like a trainer....you have to protect your stock. My mentor told me to keep myself in the highest class possible and my horses in the lowest class possible and it made it a great ride.
Before slot infused purses the racing at the smaller tracks was more corrupt, could make more gambling than taking down a 300 win purse at Dover or Ocean...maidens went for 600-700.
Truth is more trainers/drivers lost over the course of the year...always looking for the score.
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When you say 5 horses in a 10-horse field are dead, are you factoring in the # of horses who have a legitimate chance to win, because in most 10 horse fields 2 or 3 horses probably have no shot to win under any circumstances because they're overmatched. You also have big longshots with outside posts who lay back their only shot is to sit on the rail and hope for a check. Are you counting them as dead horses not trying to win? There's a difference between not trying to win and knowing you can't win. I'm not trying to argue with you, just making that point.
If you know you can't win, you won't make a winning move. You will like you said, save ground and hope for a check and maybe get class relief for next start. In every race half the field is dead for either that reason, gambling purposes or horse had a bad week of training and connections will save for a later date. Like I said, 5 of the 10 are DEAD in every race and the others are loaded to the gills.
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Extremely rare for a race to be "corrupted" these days. Any cheaters eventually get caught and suspended.
Have you ever been to a barn and seen the crap that goes down ? Get educated
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Have you ever been to a barn and seen the crap that goes down ? Get educated
Cheaters eventually get caught and are removed. You get educated!
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Very little. There’s NO money in the pools to bet more can be made by racing to win! That’s one of the few positives of low handles.
tmbz1 tmbz1
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If you don't think in a 10 horse field that 5 of the horses are dead, you are nuts and probably never raced a horse in your life.
Nope never raced a horse in my life besides as an owner. Correct.
Nuts--nope. 4 out of 8 not having a chance yes I get. 4 of the 8 corrupting the race...no
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Do you think they're even cheating in the big stake races with detention barns?
YES. The Little Brown Jug with the phone that was found with text asking Cassie about “Da Shit” and her yogurt.
Lou Peña was also seen going in and out of a barn.
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How much do I have to give Joe Frasure for the rail?
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How much do I have to give Joe Frasure for the rail?
tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
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What is corruption? Anything other than a 100% effort to win? If that's the definition then I think the percentage is high, between 1/3 and 1/2. However, is all of that corruption? The heavy favorite who trained poorly that week, and he finishes 6th or back? Some will say the trainer should have scratched the horse. The horse that drew a bad post, in a tough field, and if he finishes 4th or back he gets money off his card and can drop in class next out? Some will say that's "stiffing" the horse. Is that the same as Steve Kerr sitting Curry, Butler, Kuminga, and Green, at the end of the season because they already made the playoffs and he wants to rest them?
Short of a driver gambling and the egregious aspect there, the trainer/driver lack of effort for class relief, or some nefarious activity, a lot of what goes on is inherently part of the business, and by default, part of the sport.
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amen-hallelujah.................you said a mouthful, all true.
You know when Gural put in his 'no holes' clause it kinda screws up a race. If someone leaves and is parked it can be to my advantage to put him in a hole to get him out of my way. I will say that the racing at Mohawk with the 7/8 track lends itself to alot of places to put your horse depending if you are live or not....which goes back to the prior discussion, no one is 'live' in every race, but not for the nefarious reasons that Joe two bucks thinks.
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which goes back to the prior discussion, no one is 'live' in every race, but not for the nefarious reasons.
Plain and simple.
As far as the no holes deal at the Meadowlands, I think the giving holes has been exacerbated by several factors. One, today's driving style is such that drivers lay back (out of the back of the seat/bike). The added distance gets compounded and the field is spread out far more today than in the past. Two, couple that with track conditions, maintenance, etc. Debate all day long about wind, banked turns, speed, bikes, whatever. You just don't have horses winning from off the pace like they used to. I lived on Meadowlands racing from the day they opened after making my bones in NY racing. While you could always get a bias, a front-end favored night, a wind-aided coming from off the pace night, etc.-----trip racing today is apples and bowling balls different than it used to be. Other sports change rules to better the game/sport. Harness racing should do it too!
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It depends on what track. Last night Yonkers had 9 races. All but race 4 had multiple shady trainers. Pocono had a 14 race card & all but two had cheaters.
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miss the good old days...Meadowland s shuffle was more exciting than watching single file lineups we have today, which probably also plays into fewer closers...I miss horses coming out of the clouds, in big races. Forget Yonkers, how anyone can watch or bet on their product is beyond comprehension.
Basically, todays racing is garbage.
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Cheaters eventually get caught and are removed. You get educated!
And 2 take their place, now you have leaned something today, congratulations
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Not as many, since the Hazel Park Poker Club went out of biz. lol
That said, I once had to appear in front of the Quebec Lotto Commission, over the running of the last race trifecta coming back a little short. I knew they did it, but I didn't know anything. Paid for their trucking from Coconut Grove to Sudsbury Downs.
Same crew in Sudsbury tried to make a score to pay the bills; however, the judges refunded the $ on the nowhere to be found favourite (ex). They profited a tidy $6 per, for their troubles.
Note: I was looking at some horses that are in to go in the near future, the other day, and I witnessed the most blatant stiff that I have ever seen - woulda made Rodney Dangerfield proud, sort of stiff. Took home 5th money, but on the Super ticket - he was not to be found. I'm not going to say who that was because I'm heading to the windows with them. ;)
P.S. Closers aren't closing because speed carries these days. The breed has changed much. Gone are the days of needing 3lb toe weights to keep 'em trotting.
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Corrupt like it’s fixed…very small percentage line 3-5%. Corrupt where at least one horse in the race has something illegal in its system, 99%!