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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Chessington on January 31, 2025, 09:41:53 AM

Title: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Chessington on January 31, 2025, 09:41:53 AM
It seems a lot on here object to Jeff Gural being rewarded with a casino license regardless that he is solely responsible for keeping the track going for the last 10-12 years give or take. How do you think the industry would be effected if the Meadowlands goes away?
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Mr.Turnpike on January 31, 2025, 09:46:36 AM
     
   Another 10-12 years there won’t be much more left to harness racing other than memories
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: KING HAKU on January 31, 2025, 09:53:18 AM
I’d like to thank Jeff Gural for all he’s done for harness racing especially in New Jersey. If it wasn’t for him there would be no racing in New Jersey at all.

I know a lot of the people say he did it for a casino well he’s a businessman and is in business to make money not lose.

You’re gonna hear a lot of negative comments from the naysayers, especially that fucking MUTT with a pocket full of cash THAT PRETENDED TO BE JEFF’S FRIEND AND HAD A TAPE RECORDER IN HIS POCKET LIKE A FUCKING LITTLE RAT.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Papillon on January 31, 2025, 10:24:46 AM
I’d like to thank Jeff Gural for all he’s done for harness racing especially in New Jersey. If it wasn’t for him there would be no racing in New Jersey at all.

I know a lot of the people say he did it for a casino well he’s a businessman and is in business to make money not lose.

You’re gonna hear a lot of negative comments from the naysayers, especially that fucking MUTT with a pocket full of cash THAT PRETENDED TO BE JEFF’S FRIEND AND HAD A TAPE RECORDER IN HIS POCKET LIKE A FUCKING LITTLE RAT.

yes-monmouth park doesnt exist

bozo
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Papillon on January 31, 2025, 10:27:43 AM
It seems a lot on here object to Jeff Gural being rewarded with a casino license regardless that he is solely responsible for keeping the track going for the last 10-12 years give or take. How do you think the industry would be effected if the Meadowlands goes away?

there is a major problem right there

dumb folks like you feel he should "rewarded"

NJ doesn't work that way
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Chessington on January 31, 2025, 10:48:08 AM
there is a major problem right there

dumb folks like you feel he should "rewarded"

NJ doesn't work that way
[/quote

As I said to you before, you’re a special kind of stupid!
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Harness racer on January 31, 2025, 10:56:19 AM
It would definitely have an impact on the local economy.  Farms the host big stables, breeders, straw/hay producers, etc.   A number of people would need new sources of income or relocate.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Grandstand Handicapper on January 31, 2025, 12:25:54 PM
It seems a lot on here object to Jeff Gural being rewarded with a casino license regardless that he is solely responsible for keeping the track going for the last 10-12 years give or take. How do you think the industry would be effected if the Meadowlands goes away?

People's hatred for Gural, their desire to express what they feel is irreversible negativity, and whatever other baggage they bring, is superseding everything else. Yet, they still bet. LOL. If there are those who don't, plenty of others still are. People bitch, but they don't walk away. The very few who do, ironically, they still bitch. I say STFU and just walk away. Since you're walking, nobody gives a $hit what you have to say.

Personally, I think much of Gural's verbiage is both posturing and reality. But it's a lot of posturing. However, unless he becomes truly convinced, certain, definitive, that he will not get a casino, he will not walk away from the Meadowlands. If the unlikely does happen and he does, the Meadowlands is not going away. Several other tracks might and I think they should, but not the Meadowlands. Like it or not, bet or not, a relic of what it used to be or not, it is still the top of the pyramid in the harness racing industry. Not sport, industry. Big difference.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: simplify on January 31, 2025, 12:36:00 PM
Anyone that takes on that complete scum Howard Taylor I'm on board with
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: BigMFan on January 31, 2025, 05:38:35 PM
There was a vote a few years ago asking if people wanted a casino in northern New Jersey and was voted down by a pretty substantial margin.  Nothing today makes me think that’s going to change.  I give the meadowlands maybe 3 more years with Gural.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: hoosierboy on January 31, 2025, 05:41:54 PM
Anyone that takes on that complete scum Howard Taylor I'm on board with

Absolutely
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: WillieGoldberg on January 31, 2025, 06:14:05 PM
I’d like to thank Jeff Gural for all he’s done for harness racing especially in New Jersey. If it wasn’t for him there would be no racing in New Jersey at all.

tmbz1
Absolutely selfless - he's pulled money out of his pocket to keep the place open. 
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Scooteroo on January 31, 2025, 06:17:43 PM
In my opinion, he did it as an investment hoping to get a casino there, so I wouldn't consider it selfless. If he didn't believe he could get a casino I highly doubt he would have stepped up.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Brown jug on January 31, 2025, 06:31:38 PM
you mean exactly like what the casino companies did
pretend to support racing to get a casino to make money
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Scooteroo on January 31, 2025, 06:33:25 PM
Gural actually cares about racing, the casino companies only care about how much money they can make. The difference is, they have much deeper pockets than Gural, but eventually he's going to pull the plug if he doesn't get what he wants.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Grandstand Handicapper on January 31, 2025, 06:42:12 PM
If NJ state said they were closing the Meadowlands, and Gural said to himself, let me take over the Meadowlands because I think I can get a casino there, that's fine. You are a moron if you think differently. Like every other track owner/operator in the industry, he is not a nonprofit. He is supposed to want a casino. Anybody would. That aside, he is a horseman. He's an owner, breeder, he owns a farm. He's supported racing more than any other track owner/operator in the game. Rooney did a wonderful job at YR, right? The only one thing that $hithole has going for it is purses, and that only helps owners. If you don't think Gural has done a good job, has done enough, whatever, no problem. Say so. Once. Then walk away, SFTU, and go play bingo.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Scooteroo on January 31, 2025, 06:47:31 PM
I do think Gural has done a good job, but I believe he's fighting an uphill battle to get a casino, and one wonders, how much longer will he be willing to keep losing money before he says enough is enough, I gave it my best shot.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: pocketrocketwinner on January 31, 2025, 07:43:09 PM
3 months in advance, they are advertising for people to come to the track, dress up as chickens and race each other. He's doing a damn fine job
 
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Scooteroo on January 31, 2025, 07:48:07 PM
Sounds like another amateur race.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: bello on January 31, 2025, 08:28:04 PM
3 months in advance, they are advertising for people to come to the track, dress up as chickens and race each other. He's doing a damn fine job

https://playmeadowlands.com/event/meadowlands-racetracks-chicken-run/

Here it is. A Public Service announcement.   Do you think Gural and Settemoire will be donning chicken outfits.

I was told from a reliable source they will even let Petrelli in for the night. As long as he brings in Gaygoots as his date.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: pocketrocketwinner on January 31, 2025, 09:19:12 PM
https://playmeadowlands.com/event/meadowlands-racetracks-chicken-run/

Here it is. A Public Service announcement.   Do you think Gural and Settemoire will be donning chicken outfits.

I was told from a reliable source they will even let Petrelli in for the night. As long as he brings in Gaygoots as his date.

They are charging $65 for a chicken costume and $45 for a kids version.

One day, when we are all dead, harvard students will be analyzing a case study on an extinct industry
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Bitter Truth on January 31, 2025, 09:22:19 PM
The suspense is killing me. Quit crying poverty and pull the plug already. tmbz1
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Brown jug on January 31, 2025, 10:09:24 PM
yes i agree gural does care about racing
he is a decent size breeder
at some point its not how long he wants to stay involved but his age will dictate, not a young man
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: wizardofoz on February 01, 2025, 12:05:53 AM
Friday Total Nightly Handle: $3,040,212.14
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: rainman2 on February 01, 2025, 12:08:15 AM
I do think Gural has done a good job, but I believe he's fighting an uphill battle to get a casino, and one wonders, how much longer will he be willing to keep losing money before he says enough is enough, I gave it my best shot.

Best guess on how he is losing at the following:

Meadowlands

Vernon

Tioga
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Dr. O on February 01, 2025, 01:25:56 AM
Mr. Gural has done the best with what there is. You can’t make chicken soup out of chicken shit.  Once the big M falls, it’s all over. Ohio will hold on a few more years until current deal is over. Decoupling will occur eventually.  No one bets on Ohio or PA racing. Owners, trainers and drivers love it. Public doesn’t support it.  Enjoy the Meadowlands while you can and stop complaining. The glory days are gone and not coming back.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Harness Stats on February 01, 2025, 01:52:50 AM
I love this part of the consent form, very inviting. 

I acknowledge that participating in a Meadowlands Chicken Run carries with it the potential for serious injury and/or death.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Scooteroo on February 01, 2025, 03:34:09 AM
Best guess on how he is losing at the following:

Meadowlands

Vernon

Tioga

Gural keeps complaining all the time how he's losing money racing at Meadowlands, I'm not his accountant, ask him. I doubt he's making much if any money at Vernon, just look at how low the purses are. I have no idea how he's doing moneywise at Tioga. He's old and not in the best of health, be interesting to see what happens should he pass away in the next few years.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Parked on February 01, 2025, 07:20:45 AM
If he could make a deal for a casino I would bet he would put the % of profit allowed to racing,  all back into purses except a small % over several years to reimburse his losses.
The breeders can’t afford to see The Meadowlands close.  When Gural passes or gives up, and only then will the deep pocketed breeders step in .  When that happens everyone will be wishing for the Gural days.   
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: pocketrocketwinner on February 01, 2025, 08:33:06 AM
Mr. Gural has done the best with what there is. You can’t make chicken soup out of chicken shit.  Once the big M falls, it’s all over. Ohio will hold on a few more years until current deal is over. Decoupling will occur eventually.  No one bets on Ohio or PA racing. Owners, trainers and drivers love it. Public doesn’t support it.  Enjoy the Meadowlands while you can and stop complaining. The glory days are gone and not coming back.

He made a decision to allow CAWs such as Elite Turf Club into his pool and has provided almost zero transparency to the wagering public about it. That's not doing the best the can. Wvery single person who has bet $2 (like Jessica Otten believes) is entitled to complain all they want
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Harness racer on February 01, 2025, 08:55:05 AM
I know a little about them, but would like to know more.  Seem to me it is extremely slanted towards these organizations. 
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: pocketrocketwinner on February 01, 2025, 09:28:48 AM
I know a little about them, but would like to know more.  Seem to me it is extremely slanted towards these organizations.

It's my opinion that you are perfectly in your right to want to know more. Believe me or not but they are a very big deal. Lots of people want to silence people like you who would like more information.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Harness racer on February 01, 2025, 09:33:11 AM
What I do know seems to be the equivalent of insider trading.  They have knowledge that the general public doesn't.  Seems like a huge advantage and conflict of interests in regards to a level playing field.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: pocketrocketwinner on February 01, 2025, 09:48:35 AM
What I do know seems to be the equivalent of insider trading.  They have knowledge that the general public doesn't.  Seems like a huge advantage and conflict of interests in regards to a level playing field.

They have a technology advantage. They can analyze all pools and send in an unlimited amount of bets in less than 1 second based on a very sophisticated algorithm or AI.
Personally. I don't think the algo/AI s the problem. You and I could also develop AI to predict outcomes. It's their ability to place bets that is vastly different from any human.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Harness racer on February 01, 2025, 10:03:38 AM
Is there a possibility of the rumor that their window closes a little later than the betting public being true?  That and the unlimited last second bets makes me never want to waste my money again.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: pocketrocketwinner on February 01, 2025, 10:27:27 AM
Is there a possibility of the rumor that their window closes a little later than the betting public being true?  That and the unlimited last second bets makes me never want to waste my money again.

Very lengthy studies have been conducted in the thoroughbred world. The first bets come in as the gate starts to load and then the majority of bets come in after all human bets are placed but before the race actually starts, if that makes sense. They are not betting horses who leave the gate, after the race starts, but they are betting after people like you and I. The negations generally go like this, they approach a track and guarantee a certain amount of monthly handle. In return, they get a negotiated rebate structure and ability to tie their betting programs into the pools which  facilitate their batch bets after all human bets are in the pool. This is why you see wild odds changes at the meadowlands from race - off to final - odds.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Papillon on February 01, 2025, 10:37:51 AM
Very lengthy studies have been conducted in the thoroughbred world. The first bets come in as the gate starts to load and then the majority of bets come in after all human bets are placed but before the race actually starts, if that makes sense. They are not betting horses who leave the gate, after the race starts, but they are betting after people like you and I. The negations generally go like this, they approach a track and guarantee a certain amount of monthly handle. In return, they get a negotiated rebate structure and ability to tie their betting programs into the pools which  facilitate their batch bets after all human bets are in the pool. This is why you see wild odds changes at the meadowlands from race - off to final - odds.

this doesn't make any sense

if everyone else can make bets up until the gate leaves--then the CAW analyzes then makes their bets after everyone else--inherently that means the CAW is betting after the race starts

also fact--other entities are allowed to wager after the bell(i.e Lexington, the hub in Oregon, etc)-so Elite bets after they do--so they are betting way after the bell

the reason you see wild odds changing is due to betting after the bell

you don't see breakers suddenly go off 1-9
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: pocketrocketwinner on February 01, 2025, 10:52:19 AM
this doesn't make any sense

if everyone else can make bets up until the gate leaves--then the CAW analyzes then makes their bets after everyone else--inherently that means the CAW is betting after the race starts

also fact--other entities are allowed to wager after the bell(i.e Lexington, the hub in Oregon, etc)-so Elite bets after they do--so they are betting way after the bell

the reason you see wild odds changing is due to betting after the bell

you don't see breakers suddenly go off 1-9

I have no interest in discussing a topic of humans betting horses after the race starts.

For caws. The AI determines the wagers in less than 1 seconds and they are sent in as a batch in less than 1 second. There is a extremely small window when it all takes place, beginning to end. Extremely thorough and lengthy iindependent investigative studies revealed in the thoroughbreds exactly when the CAW bets come in. I believe those findings as fact
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: dougie on February 01, 2025, 11:42:55 AM
My wife and I were at the Meadowlands opening night in 1976. We were 19 years old. The lines were so long, many got closed out of their bet. It was the most beautiful track I ever saw. Many years have passed, and harness racing has declined in that time. But I would be saddened to see the track close. I don't love Jeff Gural. But I think that despite his faults, I hope he keeps the track open.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Chessington on February 01, 2025, 11:53:10 AM
My wife and I were at the Meadowlands opening night in 1976. We were 19 years old. The lines were so long, many got closed out of their bet. It was the most beautiful track I ever saw. Many years have passed, and harness racing has declined in that time. But I would be saddened to see the track close. I don't love Jeff Gural. But I think that despite his faults, I hope he keeps the track open.
How about all the excitement the front paddock generated back then? Amazing racing cards 6 nights a week, unbelievable crowds. AC opened a few years later, the rest is history
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: wizardofoz on February 01, 2025, 12:08:36 PM
My wife and I were at the Meadowlands opening night in 1976. We were 19 years old. The lines were so long, many got closed out of their bet. It was the most beautiful track I ever saw. Many years have passed, and harness racing has declined in that time. But I would be saddened to see the track close. I don't love Jeff Gural. But I think that despite his faults, I hope he keeps the track open.
I have the opening night program as well and it was a mob scene that night September 1 1976.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: dougie on February 01, 2025, 12:27:45 PM
Geez Wiz.....you were smart enough to save it. That is so cool! I wish I saved it!
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Kole Hanover on February 01, 2025, 01:03:50 PM
Anyone that takes on that complete scum Howard Taylor I'm on board with

 Good point

 Gural didn't cave to Uncle Howie

 +1
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Jazzman on February 01, 2025, 01:55:23 PM
absolutly none its just a b track now 2nd rate horses and drivers
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Grandstand Handicapper on February 01, 2025, 02:55:25 PM
I sure there are many of us who were there opening night, and who continued going regularly over the course of the next 20 to 30 years, and longer. While many feel OTB (generically, off-track wagering) was the beginning of the downfall of horseracing in general, the world changes and very many things are impacted by that change. Texas hold 'em/poker has seen a complete revitalization, some say going from an almost near death, to becoming a household familiar sport and form of entertainment. One, and then two states used to have casinos, and now 44 states have some sort of casino. Sports betting, fixed odds, betting from your phone, and more.

You cannot compare anything about the Meadowlands of the 70's and 80's (and maybe into the early 90's) with the Meadowlands of today. Nor can you compare today's Yonkers to the Yonkers of the 60's and 70's.

Gural's posturing---or if you want to call it complaining, whining, whatever, I couldn't care less---doesn't bother me. It's free for him to say it, and free to those who choose to listen. Me, I don't listen. But that doesn't mean I bitch about it or despise him for doing so. When I've had the opportunity to talk to him, I talk to him about issues that impact owners and bettors, people who make a living from this sport and industry. If you are anti-casino outside AC, then that's your position. Pro-casino, but anti-Meadowlands local and/or Gural, good for you. Enjoy. Me, being that I think there will be casinos outside AC, and being I make my living in this, I would like to see a casino at the Meadowlands, and I would like to see Gural get it.

As a bettor, and as a horse owner, I am definitive that I am better off with Gural than any other owner/operator. Better off for me, as a bettor, is large pools to bet into, full and competitive fields, low takeouts, and more regulation and restrictions for rebate shops and CAW's. But that's just me. That and $5 gets me a frou-frou drink at Starbucks. LOL.
Title: Re: If the Meadowlands closes, what effect would it have on the industry?
Post by: Papillon on February 20, 2025, 09:51:24 AM
I sure there are many of us who were there opening night, and who continued going regularly over the course of the next 20 to 30 years, and longer. While many feel OTB (generically, off-track wagering) was the beginning of the downfall of horseracing in general, the world changes and very many things are impacted by that change. Texas hold 'em/poker has seen a complete revitalization, some say going from an almost near death, to becoming a household familiar sport and form of entertainment. One, and then two states used to have casinos, and now 44 states have some sort of casino. Sports betting, fixed odds, betting from your phone, and more.

You cannot compare anything about the Meadowlands of the 70's and 80's (and maybe into the early 90's) with the Meadowlands of today. Nor can you compare today's Yonkers to the Yonkers of the 60's and 70's.

Gural's posturing---or if you want to call it complaining, whining, whatever, I couldn't care less---doesn't bother me. It's free for him to say it, and free to those who choose to listen. Me, I don't listen. But that doesn't mean I bitch about it or despise him for doing so. When I've had the opportunity to talk to him, I talk to him about issues that impact owners and bettors, people who make a living from this sport and industry. If you are anti-casino outside AC, then that's your position. Pro-casino, but anti-Meadowlands local and/or Gural, good for you. Enjoy. Me, being that I think there will be casinos outside AC, and being I make my living in this, I would like to see a casino at the Meadowlands, and I would like to see Gural get it.

As a bettor, and as a horse owner, I am definitive that I am better off with Gural than any other owner/operator. Better off for me, as a bettor, is large pools to bet into, full and competitive fields, low takeouts, and more regulation and restrictions for rebate shops and CAW's. But that's just me. That and $5 gets me a frou-frou drink at Starbucks. LOL.

this shows a serious lack of understanding how CAW works
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