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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: rainman2 on July 26, 2023, 08:04:22 PM
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Watch races from each track and notice where the starter opens the starting gate in relationship to the official start of the race. The further away this happens, chances are the faster the race goes? When this occurs, these races are like a thoroughbred races of 1 mile and 70 yards?? Opinions welcome!!
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I brought this up a few months ago. The gate should not open until it reaches the start. Forget the run up or whatever you want to call it.
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Interesting observation. I think your both onto something for sure!
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Is he the announcer??
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Watch races from each track and notice where the starter opens the starting gate in relationship to the official start of the race. The further away this happens, chances are the faster the race goes? When this occurs, these races are like a thoroughbred races of 1 mile and 70 yards?? Opinions welcome!!
I know that "back in the day" the starter was told to bring the car up to 30 MPH (44ft/sec) as it released the wings at the "starting line"...That was premised on the fact that the "average" good mile was a 2:00 mile (120 seconds), and a 2:00 mile (44 ft/sec) was the "par" speed they wanted to have to start the race. Of course, today, races can often go in 1:50 (using round numbers to make this clearer)... and that means that horses are averaging 110 seconds to cover 5280 feet (assuming correct track measurements)..and thus the average speed for that mile is 32.73 mph...so by starting them (even at the actual start) at 30 MPH they are really slowing the horses down compared to what they could get away at if they were released a bit earlier (perhaps 70 as was noted) and allowed to get up to their new "normal" speed. Either that, or the starter car SHOULD be now instructed get to 33 mph as it releases them at the start.
Now, I need a margarita as my head is spinning; however I remember Lou Miller using his stopwatch as I jogged my horse around the track and then having me come into the shed and convert it (or perhaps it was JoAnn) into MPH.
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hmmm I always thought it was 35 mph and 40 as it speeds out of the way ty for your math research
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The USTA had specific speeds for starting gate a specific points before the start. I think they did away with those ? Interesting how there is a rule about laying off the gate and then charging it. Never saw it enforced. Now we hear the announcer say so and so “timed the gate perfectly”. Rule book calls it “charging the gatel.
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A good starter takes into account the track condition, the class of the race, and weather conditions.
There is a big difference between starting maiden trotters in a snow storm and The Little Brown Jug.
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hhhmmmmm
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A good starter takes into account the track condition, the class of the race, and weather conditions.
There is a big difference between starting maiden trotters in a snow storm and The Little Brown Jug.
There is a real trick to being a good starter.
I have found every starter to be different.
Last Saturday Tetrick started behind three different starters, and I bet he can tell you what to expect from each one.
Once the horses are called to the gate the gate driver only has control of the steering.
The starter looking backwards has control of the speed.
Imagine steadily accelerating a car that you can only see where you have been not where you are going.
Imagine closing the gate at the exact right place again only seeing where you have been..
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"Imagine all the people......."
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I know that "back in the day" the starter was told to bring the car up to 30 MPH (44ft/sec) as it released the wings at the "starting line"...That was premised on the fact that the "average" good mile was a 2:00 mile (120 seconds), and a 2:00 mile (44 ft/sec) was the "par" speed they wanted to have to start the race. Of course, today, races can often go in 1:50 (using round numbers to make this clearer)... and that means that horses are averaging 110 seconds to cover 5280 feet (assuming correct track measurements)..and thus the average speed for that mile is 32.73 mph...so by starting them (even at the actual start) at 30 MPH they are really slowing the horses down compared to what they could get away at if they were released a bit earlier (perhaps 70 as was noted) and allowed to get up to their new "normal" speed. Either that, or the starter car SHOULD be now instructed get to 33 mph as it releases them at the start.
Now, I need a margarita as my head is spinning; however I remember Lou Miller using his stopwatch as I jogged my horse around the track and then having me come into the shed and convert it (or perhaps it was JoAnn) into MPH.
The Starter DOES NOT AND NEVER DID have a mandated starting speed! Starting races is a job that requires the ability to be sure most of the field is within 6 I niches of the gate as it crosses the release point. The driver of the gate works in harmony with the the starter in most situations also.It take experience to be able to deliver consistent starts.
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On top of having the "gas Pedal" and swinging the wings of the gate, the starter is also a judge who has to look for broken equip, horses out of position, interference, drivers in the wrong position, lame horse, etc across the whole field.
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Use to be 0 minutes to post they were going behind the gate now they are coming on the track things are going the wrong way now.
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ngc3 ngc3
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The Starter DOES NOT AND NEVER DID have a mandated starting speed! Starting races is a job that requires the ability to be sure most of the field is within 6 I niches of the gate as it crosses the release point. The driver of the gate works in harmony with the the starter in most situations also.It take experience to be able to deliver consistent starts.
I remember a specified speed for i think 16 ths of a mile . They even had a starting gate at Pompano was programed to go those speeds. Maybe 30 years ago.?
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I remember a specified speed for i think 16 ths of a mile . They even had a starting gate at Pompano was programed to go those speeds. Maybe 30 years ago.?
Programmed starting gate?
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Programmed starting gate?
I've heard about that. Whether it's true, I don't know. I'll have to ask some people I know and find out.
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I've heard about that. Whether it's true, I don't know. I'll have to ask some people I know and find out.
Programmed to open or governed speed of gate car?
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Just have them go around in circles like they do in Sweden!
Problem solved
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Programmed to open or governed speed of gate car?
i think the speed of the car.
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i think the speed of the car.
That would be a concern as they need to accelerate out of the way once the gate folds.
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That would be a concern as they need to accelerate out of the way once the gate folds.
Just made a quick call to a well known respected trainer. Yes, there was a computerized chip for a computerized start at Pompano about 20 years or so give/take. The Coon family who reconfigured the racetracks in the day were involved in this. Also, Lexington could have done this/currently doing this.
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Gene Coon - great track guy
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A Patrol Judge used to be sitting next to the Starter back in 80's &90's.Any track that could get permission not to use one sent them packing as a cost cutting maneuver!
On top of having the "gas Pedal" and swinging the wings of the gate, the starter is also a judge who has to look for broken equip, horses out of position, interference, drivers in the wrong position, lame horse, etc across the whole field.
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Note - the first sentence of the quote attributed to me was NOT made by me
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The Starter DOES NOT AND NEVER DID have a mandated starting speed! Starting races is a job that requires the ability to be sure most of the field is within 6 I niches of the gate as it crosses the release point. The driver of the gate works in harmony with the the starter in most situations also.It take experience to be able to deliver consistent starts.
At Roosevelt in the mid 70's, I know for sure that the "goal" of the person in charge of the acceleration, clearly in conjunction with all of the other factors noted, was to get up to 30 MPH at "release"... I am also sure that it was slower than that at times, but almost never faster. Lou Miller was a bit "unusual" but he was an "honest reporter" and explained to to me in detail.
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Thats what I was touching upon earlier . I was told it was 35 at release and at least 40 speeding away. I remember a story ages ago where a horse was charging like a rocket off the gate, for some reason the car seemed to stop accelerating and the horse actually retouched the gate but didnt break
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That would be a concern as they need to accelerate out of the way once the gate folds.
The driver had an over ride ., if he touched the accelerator or brake it was deactivated. That was around 1997 give or take a couple years.
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The automatic start gate. Controls both the speed and wings to ensure a consistent start every race. WEG car with the timer on the back is one. They only used the auto feature for a short time. They use them regularly in Sweden but the horses over there are much better mannered. And the drivers are not above the handhold buckle behind the gate like here
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https://standardbredcanada.ca/extract/25470/printable/print
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I know that "back in the day" the starter was told to bring the car up to 30 MPH (44ft/sec) as it released the wings at the "starting line"...That was premised on the fact that the "average" good mile was a 2:00 mile (120 seconds), and a 2:00 mile (44 ft/sec) was the "par" speed they wanted to have to start the race. Of course, today, races can often go in 1:50 (using round numbers to make this clearer)... and that means that horses are averaging 110 seconds to cover 5280 feet (assuming correct track measurements)..and thus the average speed for that mile is 32.73 mph...so by starting them (even at the actual start) at 30 MPH they are really slowing the horses down compared to what they could get away at if they were released a bit earlier (perhaps 70 as was noted) and allowed to get up to their new "normal" speed. Either that, or the starter car SHOULD be now instructed get to 33 mph as it releases them at the start.
Now, I need a margarita as my head is spinning; however I remember Lou Miller using his stopwatch as I jogged my horse around the track and then having me come into the shed and convert it (or perhaps it was JoAnn) into MPH.
You hit the number right on the nose. I sat in the starting car at Yonkers for race 4 Tuesday. As I exited the cat, I asked him how fast do you kick the horses loose when the gate opens. I was told 30 mph for the lower classes (n/w 2) up to 33 mph for the better horses racing there.
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You hit the number right on the nose. I sat in the starting car at Yonkers for race 4 Tuesday. As I exited the cat, I asked him how fast do you kick the horses loose when the gate opens. I was told 30 mph for the lower classes (n/w 2) up to 33 mph for the better horses racing there.
Thank you for the corroboration! And thank you to Lou Miller and Jo Ann for taking care of my retired horses who helped "train" many future successful trainers at the Meadowlands, Roosevelt and Yonkers.