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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Calhoun on December 12, 2023, 04:43:35 PM
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https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/harness-owner-howard-taylor-sues-jeff-gural-for-defamation/#disqus_thread
Braking news.
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https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/harness-owner-howard-taylor-sues-jeff-gural-for-defamation/#disqus_thread
Braking news.
i really wish howard would go away
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i really wish howard would go away
Ditto...but I'm sure we will hear luc's usual story about he's a family man, etc... ngc3
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https://dockets.justia.com/docket/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2023cv04882/616664
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This won't end well! ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Looks like Catherine Yun representing Howard Taylor -- an associate with Cozen O'Connor.
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i really wish howard would go away
got the same man crush on howard as you do on trace.?? 11.bz
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This won't end well! ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
For which one??
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CNN will have this as breaking news tonight
Brian Stelter, AKA Potato Head will announce his endorsement for Taylor for President
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i really wish howard would go away
got the same man crush on howard as you do on trace.?? 11.bz
So sexy! Where’s Lance when we need him!!
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Lawyers are a pain in the ass. Suiing is like measuring dicks. You can sue anyone but the little guys can't afford to sue becasue he has to pay his lawyer. howard doesn't have to pay anybody. Doesn't have to be right. All he has to do is pay the filing fee.
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Chasing the ambulance that he is riding in
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So what’s going on with Howie? I see Indiana suspended him for not providing bank statements. Howie have something to hide?
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TAYLOR HAS TO HAVE ROCKS IN HIS HEAD. IF I WAS GURAL I WOULD FIGHT THE LAWSUIT TOOTH AND NAIL AND IF I LOST, I WOULD BULLDOZE THE MEADOWLANDS AND TAKE MY MONEY AND GO ENJOY MY REMAINING YEARS AWAY FROM THE SPORT. THAT WOULD SHOVE IT UP TAYLORS ASS GOOD. I HOPE GURAL GOES THE DISTANCES IN COURT, AND THEN IF HE LOSES, HE ELIMINATES HARNESS RACING AT THE MEADOWLANDS ALL TOGETHER BY HAVING THE TRACK BULLDOZED AND CONDOMINUMS IN ITS PLACE. HOW ABOUT THAT HOWIE?
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Can’t build Condos on a piece of land you don’t own
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Can’t build Condos on a piece of land you don’t own
OK WELL THEN SHUT DOWN RACING COMPLETELY AND THEN SEE HOW THE CHEATERS LIKE TAYLOR LIKE IT THEN.
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I am not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, the internet, or anywhere...but... does it mean anything that, it appears, that Taylor is not suing for the right to race. He's not suing for an injunction. It doesn't even appear that he is suing to prevent Gural from banning him. But he's suing for defamation? I believe one of the things you have to show to win on defamation is damages. Are the damages financial due to not being able to race?
Gural didn't ban Taylor because he bought EPO and gave it to his trainers. He banned Taylor because his name was on a customer list, and because of other evidence...and because...HE CAN.
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Anything better than Jew versus Jew?
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I am not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, the internet, or anywhere...but... does it mean anything that, it appears, that Taylor is not suing for the right to race. He's not suing for an injunction. It doesn't even appear that he is suing to prevent Gural from banning him. But he's suing for defamation? I believe one of the things you have to show to win on defamation is damages. Are the damages financial due to not being able to race?
Gural didn't ban Taylor because he bought EPO and gave it to his trainers. He banned Taylor because his name was on a customer list, and because of other evidence...and because...HE CAN.
The banning isn’t the issue. Gural claiming the Howard bought EPO and gave it to his trainers to use is the problem. If Howard was really ordering it himself and insisting his trainers use it then why didn’t he ban all of his trainers. I’m glad to see Gural trying to do something but he gotta stick to known facts when talking to press
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Buying it illegally is the issue. Don't care about proving anything further
If you're illegally buying epogen, you should receieve an immediate lifetime ban
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If Gural just packs up shop and closes The Meadowlands, what is the status of fanduel? Sorry not familiar with how New Jersey operates??
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Gural may be a dick--but hes no fan of Howard Taylor---and can ban-and has= anyone he dislikes.
So Taylor has to sue for damages--but in effect--wouldn't he be in the same boat if he wasn't on Fishmans list-and Gural just banned him for having horses with banned trainers--and not removing them?? Even if Taylors secretary/trainer purchased the EPO---Gural can just ban him for being associated with it.
If you have done something wrong--how can you sue for defamation(Damages)?so Taylor will have to prove he had no association with being on Fishmans list--that seems like a stretch.
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Gural stated that Howard Taylor bought the EPO and dispersed to his trainers to use. Mr Taylor says that never happened and is suing him for Libel. That’s it pure and simple. Gural can keep anyone out of the Meadowlands that he wants to. That’s not what the lawsuit is about
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Once again, I don't think many of you understand that EPO is not FDA approved for horses, therefore, a veterinarian cannot legally prescibe EPO. Secondly, it is illegal to buy it without a prescription. Howard broke the law if he purchased EPO so I am not sure how he was defamed.
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Gural stated that Howard Taylor bought the EPO and dispersed to his trainers to use. Mr Taylor says that never happened and is suing him for Libel. That’s it pure and simple. Gural can keep anyone out of the Meadowlands that he wants to. That’s not what the lawsuit is about
OK I see--but how did Taylor end up on Fishmans list buying EPO?? He must have paid for it--otherwise the FBI wouldn't have put him on that list--wasnt Gural--it was the FBI.
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Howard says he never bought EPO , that’s what the lawsuit is about. Gural shot his big mouth off, now he has to come up with the proof that Howard Taylor bought EPO. If not he’s guilty of Libel
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There are hundreds of owners on the Fishman list. Fishman sold alot of legal stuff in addition to all the illegal stuff
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IM PULLING FOR HT..
IF HE SAYS HE WAS DEFAMED ,,LET THE COURTS DECIDE NOT PLOPS
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Howard says he never bought EPO , that’s what the lawsuit is about. Gural shot his big mouth off, now he has to come up with the proof that Howard Taylor bought EPO. If not he’s guilty of Libel
Taylor is saying that he never gave horses epo or to his trainers to give horses epo. He didn't address the subject of being on the fed list of individuals who bought it. By banning him/ Taylor is saying gural is implying that he gave horses the epo that he bought/ without proof, thus defaming his character
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There are hundreds of owners on the Fishman list. Fishman sold alot of legal stuff in addition to all the illegal stuff
It would be hard to believe that the Gural machine didn't verify what was actually purchased before coming out with his banishment list. You must remember that Gural is a multi billionaire with a building filled with lawyers and advisors. Yes, Howard is probably a good lawyer and probably very wealthy but there is no comparison between what Gural has at his disposal and what Howard can do.
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Taylor is saying that he never gave horses epo or to his trainers to give horses epo. He didn't address the subject of being on the fed list of individuals who bought it. By banning him/ Taylor is saying gural is implying that he gave horses the epo that he bought/ without proof, thus defaming his character
If he bought the EPO without a prescription then he broke the law and that’s it!!! Doesn’t matter if Howard was going to flush the EPO down the toilet, he bought it and it’s against the law.
It’s more likely to believe anyone on Fishman’s list who bought drugs of any sort, were buying them to administer them to horses, period. If Howard bought EPO, he can’t win any lawsuit because he broke the law. Don’t be surprised if Gural doesn’t push the FBI to arrest Howard for buying EPO. Howard better be real careful here people or he’ll be sharing a cell with Rene and the boys. Gural might also file a complaint with the bar association and notify them of Howard buying an illegally banned substance and then he’d really be screwed.
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Exactly Mike tmbz1----Gural didn't make up the list--the FBI investigators did. Gural and his team then took Taylors name from those who the FBI found purchased EPO.Im sure Howard didn't go around administering EPO=but the trainer he purchased it for did.Could also be that Taylor just paid a bill and didn't know there was EPO on it--that's prob his defense--however ignorance is no excuse and dealing with crooked trainers--is bound to bite you in the arse sooner than later-see the indicted--all on the banned list. So he's guilty by association. I can see the USTA banning Taylor for life if he loses this case.
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Exactly Mike tmbz1----Gural didn't make up the list--the FBI investigators did. Gural and his team then took Taylors name from those who the FBI found purchased EPO.Im sure Howard didn't go around administering EPO=but the trainer he purchased it for did.Could also be that Taylor just paid a bill and didn't know there was EPO on it--that's prob his defense--however ignorance is no excuse and dealing with crooked trainers--is bound to bite you in the arse sooner than later-see the indicted--all on the banned list. So he's guilty by association. I can see the USTA banning Taylor for life if he loses this case.
tmbz1 tmbz1
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Exactly Mike tmbz1----Gural didn't make up the list--the FBI investigators did. Gural and his team then took Taylors name from those who the FBI found purchased EPO.Im sure Howard didn't go around administering EPO=but the trainer he purchased it for did.Could also be that Taylor just paid a bill and didn't know there was EPO on it--that's prob his defense--however ignorance is no excuse and dealing with crooked trainers--is bound to bite you in the arse sooner than later-see the indicted--all on the banned list. So he's guilty by association. I can see the USTA banning Taylor for life if he loses this case.
So all this means is that there will be a 'beard' owner for a change if this occurs??
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The list that you guys are referring to is a list of literally hundreds of owners who paid their vet bills. Outside of the few big time trainers , most of the other trainers are living month to month. So they don’t have the money to lay out for vet bills. Therefore the vets have to bill the owners and most of the owners have no idea what’s on those bills. The large majority of vet bills are on the up and up, obviously some of Fishman’s weren’t. For Gural to say that Howard Taylor purchased illegal drugs and gave them to his trainers to administer, he’s going to have to prove that . And he won’t be able to because it never happened.
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The list that you guys are referring to is a list of literally hundreds of owners who paid their vet bills. Outside of the few big time trainers , most of the other trainers are living month to month. So they don’t have the money to lay out for vet bills. Therefore the vets have to bill the owners and most of the owners have no idea what’s on those bills. The large majority of vet bills are on the up and up, obviously some of Fishman’s weren’t. For Gural to say that Howard Taylor purchased illegal drugs and gave them to his trainers to administer, he’s going to have to prove that . And he won’t be able to because it never happened.
OMG!!! I have found the dumbest mother fucker that has ever posted on Horseplop. The list was a sales list of Fishman's. Everything he sold was illegal, as he wasn't an FDA approved manufacturer.
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Wrong Mike Campbell ! You’re the dumb motherfucker ! For your information Fishman sold a ton of stuff that he didn’t manufacture that was perfectly legal.
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OMG!!! I have found the dumbest mother fucker that has ever posted on Horseplop. The list was a sales list of Fishman's. Everything he sold was illegal, as he wasn't an FDA approved manufacturer.
What planet do you live on?? On earth a veterinarian can sell and prescribe medication. Every farm with livestock has the necessary medications to treat animals as needed. Other than controlled substances you can possess pretty much anything else
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The real issue is "damages." I can defame SCM and there are virtually no damages.. but what can HT claim?? Did he lose a potential client? Did his horses make less "profit" (not revenue, but profit)?? Did his wife or mistress stop sleeping with him? I have been involved in a lot of lawsuits and at the end of the day the only issue is "damages"...Also, NOTE the last sentence of what follows:
"Defamation is term that includes both slander and libel. Generally, slander occurs when the reputation or good name of someone is damaged as a result of false statements that are orally made. Libel, on the other hand, occurs when false statements regarding another are put in writing.
Whether a particular statement, oral or written, constitutes defamation in the nature of slander or libel will depend upon the particular circumstances in question and the identity of the parties. To prevail in a defamation lawsuit, a plaintiff must prove that the defendant made a false and defamatory statement about the plaintiff that was communicated to a third party. Thus a false and objectionable statement sent in an e-mail to the plaintiff’s co-worker may be libelous. The plaintiff can usually succeed by showing the communication was either intentional or at least negligent. Finally, it is also possible for the plaintiff to bring a libel suit where the plaintiff himself repeats the alleged defamatory statement. This is called self-publication. This can occur, for example, when an individual applies for a job and has to tell the prospective employer about something the previous employer said that was false.
Before beginning a libel or slander lawsuit, the plaintiff must determine whether or not the objectionable statement is true. No matter how damaging, insensitive, rude or inappropriate a statement may be, the plaintiff will lose if the statement is true."
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This should be interesting. 2 very wealthy guys going after each other in court. let the games begin. this is NOT going to end quickly.
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Exactly! Now let’s see Gural prove what he says happened
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Exactly! Now let’s see Gural prove what he says happened
I am not sure that Gural has specifically stated that Taylor bought EPO and ordered it administered to horses. Here is the "narrowest" quote I have seen from him about all of this:
"So far, we have only been able to view the customers that
Gianelli was selling to and have not been able to obtain the
records of who was buying drugs directly from Fishman. I was
told there are an additional 200 names on that list, but so far
we have not been able to obtain the information."
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HT not the only owner that knows exactly what is going on! Why not ban other big time owners who have their trainers in jail? This game needs a thorough cleansing ASAP! tmbz1
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Anything better than Jew versus Jew?
Add a 3rd Jew?
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The list that you guys are referring to is a list of literally hundreds of owners who paid their vet bills. Outside of the few big time trainers , most of the other trainers are living month to month. So they don’t have the money to lay out for vet bills. Therefore the vets have to bill the owners and most of the owners have no idea what’s on those bills. The large majority of vet bills are on the up and up, obviously some of Fishman’s weren’t. For Gural to say that Howard Taylor purchased illegal drugs and gave them to his trainers to administer, he’s going to have to prove that . And he won’t be able to because it never happened.
To clarify. The list cand from damian williams arguments against Fishman. It contained 7 individuals who purchased prohibitive substances, specifically epo.
Gural banned those 7 individuals because the state attorney's list was provided to him. They bought epo/ they are gone. Gural never said or has to say anything more/such as prove what was done after the purchase
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With any luck the lawsuit goes forward and Howard has to take the stand and they can ask him why he bought what he bought. My monies on HT dropping it way before that
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To clarify. The list cand from damian williams arguments against Fishman. It contained 7 individuals who purchased prohibitive substances, specifically epo.
Gural banned those 7 individuals because the state attorney's list was provided to him. They bought epo/ they are gone. Gural never said or has to say anything more/such as prove what was done after the purchase
You are 100% correct. I have gone back and checked all of Gural's PUBLIC statements since he first brought up the people who would be disallowed on December 1 and have not seen any direct statement concerning Howard Taylor that wasn't factual (and did not get into the specifics of who did what to whom.) He merely said certain names were on a list which caused him to ban these people.
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Wrong Mike Campbell ! You’re the dumb motherfucker ! For your information Fishman sold a ton of stuff that he didn’t manufacture that was perfectly legal.
WTF--Gural is not concerned with folk who purchased most of the stuff that Fishman sold--he had 100's of clients believe it or not.
What has ALWAYS been the concern--is the designer ILLEGAL meds Fishman was selling--misbranded and non FDA approved.
These are the people Gural and the FBI are after--many are already behind bars--and those who are not--are being banned.Howard Taylor apparently--paid for these drugs-most certainly to be used by his trainers. Thats why he was banned--and if he in fact cannot distance himself from these charges--not only will he lose his case-as you cannot win a libel/slander case if you are guilty-he will probably lose all his horses and be banned by the USTA--just like those already in lockup.
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What planet do you live on?? On earth a veterinarian can sell and prescribe medication. Every farm with livestock has the necessary medications to treat animals as needed. Other than controlled substances you can possess pretty much anything else
Buying from Fishman was different than buying from a credible/legitimate veterinarian. He relabeled everything which I believe is illegal.
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Buying from Fishman was different than buying from a credible/legitimate veterinarian. He relabeled everything which I believe is illegal.
Exactly Mike--you know.---Howard is claiming Gural is lying?--however I just read that Taylor had 4 different accounts with Fishman-one was in his dead (RIP) wifes name. Fishman was selling just about everything I was told--from supplements to relabeled, non FDA approved injectables-to designer drugs and Class 1 injectables he had no business selling to trainers whatsoever-which is why he got the most severe penalty of all and millions in fines.Not a reputable person to be dealing with and Taylor must have known something about all the medications- he is no idiot. Fishman was a real POS of the worst greedy kind. Honest people and all the horses are better off with him behind bars. Makes you wonder--why would Taylor have 4 different accounts with someone(vet) who does not look after any of his horses??
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I wouldn't day he is claiming gural is lying. By all public accounts of this suit, it is based on defamation of being banned because although the state has already proved that the epo was bought, taylor seems to be saying that gural needs proof after the purchaser that the horses received the epo and since there is no proof of that, now there is a legal suit against gural for defaming taylor
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does anyone ever lose with DIGNITY any more
wdf...
ITS HIS RACE TRACK IF HE WANTS TO BAR ANYONE ITS HIS RIGHT TO DO SO,,
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I am not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, the internet, or anywhere...but... does it mean anything that, it appears, that Taylor is not suing for the right to race. He's not suing for an injunction. It doesn't even appear that he is suing to prevent Gural from banning him. But he's suing for defamation? I believe one of the things you have to show to win on defamation is damages. Are the damages financial due to not being able to race?
Gural didn't ban Taylor because he bought EPO and gave it to his trainers. He banned Taylor because his name was on a customer list, and because of other evidence...and because...HE CAN.
ITS NOT DEFAMATION IF ITS FOUND TO BE TRUE!!!
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Howard Taylor is a douche bag, cheat, and an all around dirt bag. Are these defaming statements, or just the facts. YOU decide. Fact is he's on the list because it was determined by the investigation. Gural just published the list in conformity of his banning these individuals. It doesnt matter if Howard Taylor stuck EPO up his ass he bought an illegal substance, that he, as legal counsel to many trainers that have endured the same charge he is now facing. Is this stupidity, or brazen acts of untouchability? Time will tell. But he has a long fight ahead, and Gural needs to stay the course and make this an example if one needs to be made.
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I don't see defamation here. I see right of refusal only. Unless something was published that we don't know about by Gural.
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I'm sure Jeff can't wait till Howard is under oath. Could be some very interesting questions for Howard to answer.
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You think that means he will tell nothing but the truth? ngc3
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Remember Jack Nicholson said it "You can't handle the truth"
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Wait till Gural starts asking for bank records and trainers records. You think all these trainers are going to go out of there way to help Howard? He will get thrown under the bus by the weakest and brokest trainer out there.
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Howard Taylor is a POS. No if and or buts about it. Now the business will find their go to legal counsel is as low a life form as some of the people he represents. Don't think for a minute, that Surick's prolonged report date didnt have something to do with a lot of the new pot of shit thats being stirred.
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Any of the geniuses on here wonder why New York Pennsylvania Delaware Maryland Indiana have no problem with Howard Taylor ? Because Gural has zero credibility with them , that’s why.
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Not sure it's that...but they won't do anything to possibly cause the entry box not to be full and risk losing some of their state handouts! tmbz1
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Any of the geniuses on here wonder why New York Pennsylvania Delaware Maryland Indiana have no problem with Howard Taylor ? Because Gural has zero credibility with them , that’s why.
Damian williams, the states attorney for the southern district in NY, prepared the list of individuals who purchased epo from Fishman. The judge is the one who sentenced Fishman and his lackey based on this evidence. How could any state reasonably not have an issue with someone on the list based on the facts? Gurals actions have nothing to do with what each state decides
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Any of the geniuses on here wonder why New York Pennsylvania Delaware Maryland Indiana have no problem with Howard Taylor ? Because Gural has zero credibility with them , that’s why.
Delaware and Maryland have always been a safe haven for cheaters! Look at who's racing there and have had multiple offenses!
They're not going to do anything that might jeopardize their overpaid salaries! Just look away and it'll go away.
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Exactly Mike--you know.---Howard is claiming Gural is lying?--however I just read that Taylor had 4 different accounts with Fishman-one was in his dead (RIP) wifes name. Fishman was selling just about everything I was told--from supplements to relabeled, non FDA approved injectables-to designer drugs and Class 1 injectables he had no business selling to trainers whatsoever-which is why he got the most severe penalty of all and millions in fines.Not a reputable person to be dealing with and Taylor must have known something about all the medications- he is no idiot. Fishman was a real POS of the worst greedy kind. Honest people and all the horses are better off with him behind bars. Makes you wonder--why would Taylor have 4 different accounts with someone(vet) who does not look after any of his horses??
Correct tmbz1 tmbz1
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Howard Taylor is a douche bag, cheat, and an all around dirt bag. Are these defaming statements, or just the facts. YOU decide. Fact is he's on the list because it was determined by the investigation. Gural just published the list in conformity of his banning these individuals. It doesnt matter if Howard Taylor stuck EPO up his ass he bought an illegal substance, that he, as legal counsel to many trainers that have endured the same charge he is now facing. Is this stupidity, or brazen acts of untouchability? Time will tell. But he has a long fight ahead, and Gural needs to stay the course and make this an example if one needs to be made.
Spot on tmbz1
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Remember the last time Taylor tried to sue Gural/New Meadowlands over a stake race they cancelled that Taylor had the favorite. Taylor filed the suit to force the race to be run using the court’s as his bully pulpit and dropped the suit and took his stakes payment refund and put it towards buying more horses. Taylor and his attorney will be up against a top flight law firm and my belief is he will drop the suit. Greed and power have overtaken his legal judgement.
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Your all going to be sued for defecation, i mean, deprivation, i mean defamation!
Something like that. I heard it from a good sauce.
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Exactly! Now let’s see Gural prove what he says happened
GURAL DOESNT HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING. HOWARD TAYLOR HAS TO PROVE THAT HE WAS DEFAMED AND WHAT HIS DAMAGES ARE. ALL GURAL HAS TO DO IS SHOW UP IN COURT
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Remember the last time Taylor tried to sue Gural/New Meadowlands over a stake race they cancelled that Taylor had the favorite. Taylor filed the suit to force the race to be run using the court’s as his bully pulpit and dropped the suit and took his stakes payment refund and put it towards buying more horses. Taylor and his attorney will be up against a top flight law firm and my belief is he will drop the suit. Greed and power have overtaken his legal judgement.
Taylor just signed his fate of racing ever again at the Meadowlands.
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Taylor just signed his fate of racing ever again at the Meadowlands.
ABSOLUTELY. AT LEAST UNLESS GURAL SELLS IT OR SOMEONE ELSE TAKES OVER. DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH ON THE LATTER.
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I'm sure he figures that to be the case. Apparently he finds racing at the Meadowlands expendable, inconsequential. Just further proof what an intelligent [however crooked] guy he is.
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I'm sure he figures that to be the case. Apparently he finds racing at the Meadowlands expendable, inconsequential. Just further proof what an intelligent [however crooked] guy he is.
INTELLIGENT? WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING? THE GUY IS A MORON IF HE WAS PAYING FOR EPO UNDER HIS OWN NAME. THAT SAYS IT ALL ABOUT HIS INTELLIGENCE.
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Sure seems like I see his name in the program an awful lot. Let me walk it back as you make a valid point. [why I added the crooked part before]. Call it harness racing intelligent then.
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How stupid is he? In his own lawsuit he says - 34. In any event, BB3 is not EPO. It is a mimetic peptide that is structurally
distinguishable from EPO
So you had Fishman create EPO in a peptide that mimics EPO but won't test. Sounds like making and using a PED so as to not be detected.
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Like I said, he's still racing all over. You see and hear on here of people being popped for EPO and slapped on the wrist depending on who they are. It's apparently not considered that egregious by many governing racing bodies. You want to talk about lack of intelligence? All of us talking and bitching about the obvious cheats and juicers in this sport, yet we continue to follow it and wager on it.
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Like I said, he's still racing all over. You see and hear on here of people being popped for EPO and slapped on the wrist depending on who they are. It's apparently not considered that egregious by many governing racing bodies. You want to talk about lack of intelligence? All of us talking and bitching about the obvious cheats and juicers in this sport, yet we continue to follow it and wager on it.
SPEAK FOR YOURSELF. I FOLLOW BUT STOPPED WAGERING TWO YEARS AGO. JUST CAN'T BEAT THE CHEATS AND I DON'T WANT TO BET 3/5 EVERY RACE. CAME TO THE CONCLUSION AFTER 35 YEARS OF BETTING AND HAVING A HECK OF FUN, THAT I JUST CAN'T BEAT THEM TODAY. SO I STILL LOVE TO FOLLOW
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Like I said, he's still racing all over. You see and hear on here of people being popped for EPO and slapped on the wrist depending on who they are. It's apparently not considered that egregious by many governing racing bodies. You want to talk about lack of intelligence? All of us talking and bitching about the obvious cheats and juicers in this sport, yet we continue to follow it and wager on it.
Show me one trainer that got an EPO positive and didn't get suspended for at least 1 year.
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You make the point. For something that is portrayed [which I'm not doubting or questioning] as being 'SO BAD' , isn't 'AT LEAST 1 YR.' a slap on the wrist?
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You make the point. For something that is portrayed [which I'm not doubting or questioning] as being 'SO BAD' , isn't 'AT LEAST 1 YR.' a slap on the wrist?
Ask the person who is serving that one year suspension is that’s a slap on the wrist and you’ll get your answer.
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i have 1 question
IF EVERYONE IS INNOCENT
IF THESE NAMES GURAL POSTED AS BUYING SOME KINDA ILLEGAL PRODUCT ISNT TRUE
WHERE DID GURAL GET THE NAMES OUT OF A FCKIN HAT OR BOX OF CRACKERJACKS ..
STOP FCKIN BITCHING ,,
DID THE CRIME NOW DO THE TIME ..AND DO IT WITH FCKIN DIGNITY ..
WDF IS WRONG WITH ACCEPTING RESPONSIBLITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS..
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i have 1 question
IF EVERYONE IS INNOCENT
IF THESE NAMES GURAL POSTED AS BUYING SOME KINDA ILLEGAL PRODUCT ISNT TRUE
WHERE DID GURAL GET THE NAMES OUT OF A FCKIN HAT OR BOX OF CRACKERJACKS ..
STOP FCKIN BITCHING ,,
DID THE CRIME NOW DO THE TIME ..AND DO IT WITH FCKIN DIGNITY ..
WDF IS WRONG WITH ACCEPTING RESPONSIBLITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS..
I think if you’re a good Christian family man that should count as good credit and you shouldn’t have to do the time. Heard it from a friend
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You make the point. For something that is portrayed [which I'm not doubting or questioning] as being 'SO BAD' , isn't 'AT LEAST 1 YR.' a slap on the wrist?
I wrote at least 1 year, not maximum 1 year shit for brains. For example John Wagner got 5 years for an EPO positive.
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You people make me laugh , New York Pennsylvania, Delaware, Ohio, Indiana , Maryland, Kentucky all have no problem with Howard Taylor but you automatically assume that what Gural says is the gospel. Fuck that list , the man says he never bought or distributed EPO . Let’s see the proof , not some Meadowlands made up list that one of Gural’s homo subordinates printed out . A lot of people on here have been talking about the federal government and the FBI , but I haven’t heard that Mr Taylor was charged with any crimes. If he did what Gural says he did wouldn’t he have been charged with some kind of crime ? But not charged with anything, why would that be ? I’ll tell you why, because the guy didn’t break any laws .
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You people make me laugh , New York Pennsylvania, Delaware, Ohio, Indiana , Maryland, Kentucky all have no problem with Howard Taylor but you automatically assume that what Gural says is the gospel. Fuck that list , the man says he never bought or distributed EPO . Let’s see the proof , not some Meadowlands made up list that one of Gural’s homo subordinates printed out . A lot of people on here have been talking about the federal government and the FBI , but I haven’t heard that Mr Taylor was charged with any crimes. If he did what Gural says he did wouldn’t he have been charged with some kind of crime ? But not charged with anything, why would that be ? I’ll tell you why, because the guy didn’t break any laws .
On this forum, how does one "ignore" a poster??
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Ask the person who is serving that one year suspension is that’s a slap on the wrist and you’ll get your answer.
The bigger question, is it an effective deterrent, 1 year suspension?
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The bigger question, is it an effective deterrent, 1 year suspension?
I think the fine should fit the crime, same as it does outside of harness racing.
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You people make me laugh , New York Pennsylvania, Delaware, Ohio, Indiana , Maryland, Kentucky all have no problem with Howard Taylor but you automatically assume that what Gural says is the gospel. Fuck that list , the man says he never bought or distributed EPO . Let’s see the proof , not some Meadowlands made up list that one of Gural’s homo subordinates printed out . A lot of people on here have been talking about the federal government and the FBI , but I haven’t heard that Mr Taylor was charged with any crimes. If he did what Gural says he did wouldn’t he have been charged with some kind of crime ? But not charged with anything, why would that be ? I’ll tell you why, because the guy didn’t break any laws .
IMHO--buying products from Fishman was not a crime. Thats why no one who purchased this shit-got charged by the FBI. No one seems to understand Mr Gural's position.
If you remember-the FBI analyzed all of Fishmans products. What that showed was these products were all mislabeled and what they contained was NOT what was supposed to be in the bottle. Most of them contained cheap materials.
BB3 --I'm pretty sure didn't contain any EPO--Nada. This is because Fishman was a conman, thief, and a cheap POS ripping off clients. He portrayed ALL his products as having therapeutic properties--without any FDA approval. So I'm guessing based on the evidence--that BB3 was NOT EPO because Fishman was in the business of making designer non detectable drugs--would not show even in Out of Competition testing. It was probably some designer drug that may or may not--have had EPO effects. Remember Fishman never sold it as EPO it was BB3. When did BB3 turn into EPO??? If this is correct--then Taylor will say he never purchased EPO--which he didn't. I'm sure if BB3 was EPO--we would have heard about that from the FBI. Where IMHO the problem arises with Taylor--is why was he buying Blood Boosting drugs non-FDA approved from Fishman?? Taylor may be in even bigger trouble if it turns out that BB3 was an illegal designer drug with EPO like effects--or even similar or better.!! So either way IMHO---Howard Taylor could be in bigger trouble now he's throwing it out there. Thats why Gural has thrown out all those that purchased BB3 because it was a designer drug meant to cheat-end of story.
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Some great points I would love to know exactly what BB 3 is
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From the comments I read on here, most would say a life-time ban would be in order. Therefore comparatively , a one year ban would be a slap on the wrist.
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BOND I agree with your analysis of the argument. Botton line is Taylor purchased the products knowingly, regardless of claiming he was unknowing. Taylor is arguably an expert is skirting the truth in the matters at hand. The firm he chose is a prominent Phila. Firm with offices in several states. But this is no deterrent for Gural. He can make the rules for his tracks. Also if the list Gural presented is already a published document elsewhere. Then where is the defamation?
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Gural can ban Taylor because he wants to, no? But he can't just unconditionally say whatever he wants to about Taylor or what Taylor did, without possible ramifications, right?
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On this forum, how does one "ignore" a poster??
Go to Profile at the top of any page, then click on Forum Profile. On the page that comes up the ignore option is under Modify Profile near the top of the page
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gural gonna mop the floor with him
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From the comments I read on here, most would say a life-time ban would be in order. Therefore comparatively , a one year ban would be a slap on the wrist.
Are you that thick. The commissions and USTA have issued licenses to people that were proven horse killers as well as people that were convicted of attempted murder on HUMANS and you think they are going to give a lifetime ban for EPO? Just more overwhelming proof of why HISA needs to be enacted in harness racing.
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Everyday of the week
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"If you brew it,they will use it! 💉💊💉💊💉💊💉💊!
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Gural can ban Taylor because he wants to, no? But he can't just unconditionally say whatever he wants to about Taylor or what Taylor did, without possible ramifications, right?
I think that you have it correct!
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Go to Profile at the top of any page, then click on Forum Profile. On the page that comes up the ignore option is under Modify Profile near the top of the page
Thx.
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You would have to search the world to find a bigger bunch of morons than are on this thread. You 🤡 clowns keep saying that Howard Taylor purchased performance enhancing drugs . Where is the proof ? I guess on here you can say anything about anybody but in real life there has to be proof. Receipts , Cancelled checks, Billing statements. Have any of you half wits seen any of these things ? The answer is no. Do you imbeciles really think he would sue Gural if Gural had proof that he purchased EPO ? Newsflash ! There is no proof because he never purchased or distributed anything of any kind.
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You would have to search the world to find a bigger bunch of morons than are on this thread. You 🤡 clowns keep saying that Howard Taylor purchased performance enhancing drugs . Where is the proof ? I guess on here you can say anything about anybody but in real life there has to be proof. Receipts , Cancelled checks, Billing statements. Have any of you half wits seen any of these things ? The answer is no. Do you imbeciles really think he would sue Gural if Gural had proof that he purchased EPO ? Newsflash ! There is no proof because he never purchased or distributed anything of any kind.
For the 3rd time, the evidence was submitted by states attorney of the southern district of NY, damian williams.
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For the millionth time, how come there was no arrest ?
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For the millionth time, how come there was no arrest ?
Of who? Fishman and his assistant and are behind bars as we speak based on this evidence. The attorney has not prosecuted the buyers of the illegal substances, yet. That doesn't mean these individuals should be allowed anywhere near a racetrack or animals in general.
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Hear is the one thing you are all missing. Did Gural make the comment on camera? Did he make it on radio? Did he make it in a large group of people where he could be overheard? NO! He made it to a bonehead reporter. Now we all know that the media can write or say anything they want. They can mis quote 100% and nothing happens. Donald Trump is mis quoted in the media. He even says crazy shit in the media and guess what? You can't sue for defamation. It's one person's opinion and that's it. Just because I tell Generation XYZ that Ron Burke uses EPO it doesn't give Ron Burke the right to sue for defamation. I don't care if Generation XYZ posts it on every forum in the universe "Harnessfan2023 said Ron Burke uses EPO" it doesn't mean shit.
All Howard Taylor is going to do is open a huge can of worms and cause a whole mess of problems for a lot of other people. His racing days are finished and he's hitting the pannic button because he has no income as a lawyer. He's already out looking for trainers who will testify for him and I can assure you anyone who is dumb enough to testify for him will be hung at the stake. Testifying for him will only purger themselves at a later date.
Oh BTW the article that supposedly is the cause of all this was taken down within 12hrs after the post. Probably because of a mis quote or discrepancy. So you want to get 12 people on a jury to award you millions of dollars in damages for something that was up for 12hrs and you can't prove Gural said? Good Luck on this one!
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Later that day, Gural was quoted in Thoroughbred Racing News saying that Taylor “had to be giving EPO [Epogen] to his trainers to use and not a single trainer picked up the phone and said I have an owner who wants me to use EPO on his horses.”
That statement was untrue. No facts, in either the Meadowlands press release or the article, supported the claim that Taylor ever gave Epogen to any of his trainers or that Taylor ever instructed any trainer to use Epogen on his horses.
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Hear is the one thing you are all missing. Did Gural make the comment on camera? Did he make it on radio? Did he make it in a large group of people where he could be overheard? NO! He made it to a bonehead reporter. Now we all know that the media can write or say anything they want. They can mis quote 100% and nothing happens. Donald Trump is mis quoted in the media. He even says crazy shit in the media and guess what? You can't sue for defamation. It's one person's opinion and that's it. Just because I tell Generation XYZ that Ron Burke uses EPO it doesn't give Ron Burke the right to sue for defamation. I don't care if Generation XYZ posts it on every forum in the universe "Harnessfan2023 said Ron Burke uses EPO" it doesn't mean shit.
All Howard Taylor is going to do is open a huge can of worms and cause a whole mess of problems for a lot of other people. His racing days are finished and he's hitting the pannic button because he has no income as a lawyer. He's already out looking for trainers who will testify for him and I can assure you anyone who is dumb enough to testify for him will be hung at the stake. Testifying for him will only purger themselves at a later date.
Oh BTW the article that supposedly is the cause of all this was taken down within 12hrs after the post. Probably because of a mis quote or discrepancy. So you want to get 12 people on a jury to award you millions of dollars in damages for something that was up for 12hrs and you can't prove Gural said? Good Luck on this one!
ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 I appreciate the appearance in your example explaination. ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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You would have to search the world to find a bigger bunch of morons than are on this thread. You 🤡 clowns keep saying that Howard Taylor purchased performance enhancing drugs . Where is the proof ? I guess on here you can say anything about anybody but in real life there has to be proof. Receipts , Cancelled checks, Billing statements. Have any of you half wits seen any of these things ? The answer is no. Do you imbeciles really think he would sue Gural if Gural had proof that he purchased EPO ? Newsflash ! There is no proof because he never purchased or distributed anything of any kind.
AND....What proof do YOU have that he didnt???
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Hear is the one thing you are all missing....
Testifying for him will only purger themselves at a later date.
Purger ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Later that day, Gural was quoted in Thoroughbred Racing News saying that Taylor “had to be giving EPO [Epogen] to his trainers to use and not a single trainer picked up the phone and said I have an owner who wants me to use EPO on his horses.”
That statement was untrue. No facts, in either the Meadowlands press release or the article, supported the claim that Taylor ever gave Epogen to any of his trainers or that Taylor ever instructed any trainer to use Epogen on his horses.
That's what a reporter wrote that Gural supposedly said to him! One person in a two-person conversation. That's not public defamation. He DID NOT MAKE A PUBLIC statement. He told a f'n reporter. What a reporter writes doesn't constitute public defamation. If what your saying is true then everyone is liable for what they say to a reporter AND reporters can no longer hide there sources. If they can hide there sources then you coudn't sue for defamation now could you?
You would have reporters out there all the time saying "un named sources say Generation XYZ routinely visits trans bars in NYC" Guess he better start suing unnamed sources ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Just got confirmation right from the source so I’ll say it again for the millionth time. There is no proof or evidence that Mr Taylor purchased or distributed any kind of performance enhancing drug. You people can quote any source that you want No proof No evidence that anything like this occurred. Gural can keep Howard Taylor out of his races At the Meadowlands. Hambletonian Society and New Jersey sire stakes Mr Gural can whistle Dixie, he has no control to stop anybody from racing in those races. Whatever you people think Howard Taylor purchased, there is no proof that it was anything illegal. We don’t live in China We don’t live in Russia , in our country there has to be proof. A bunch of blowhards shooting their mouths off on Horseplop does not constitute proof.
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we need Mike P on this
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Just got confirmation right from the source so I’ll say it again for the millionth time. There is no proof or evidence that Mr Taylor purchased or distributed any kind of performance enhancing drug. You people can quote any source that you want No proof No evidence that anything like this occurred. Gural can keep Howard Taylor out of his races At the Meadowlands. Hambletonian Society and New Jersey sire stakes Mr Gural can whistle Dixie, he has no control to stop anybody from racing in those races. Whatever you people think Howard Taylor purchased, there is no proof that it was anything illegal. We don’t live in China We don’t live in Russia , in our country there has to be proof. A bunch of blowhards shooting their mouths off on Horseplop does not constitute proof.
Boscoman... ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 Are you aware of the vast number of cases on going in the US currently? you dont need to prove anything anymore. You just mke up shit and sue. Howard Taylor knows first hand how to create a case and defend a liar. He does it every day.
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we need Mike P on this
He's on it...
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You people make me laugh , New York Pennsylvania, Delaware, Ohio, Indiana , Maryland, Kentucky all have no problem with Howard Taylor but you automatically assume that what Gural says is the gospel. Fuck that list , the man says he never bought or distributed EPO . Let’s see the proof , not some Meadowlands made up list that one of Gural’s homo subordinates printed out . A lot of people on here have been talking about the federal government and the FBI , but I haven’t heard that Mr Taylor was charged with any crimes. If he did what Gural says he did wouldn’t he have been charged with some kind of crime ? But not charged with anything, why would that be ? I’ll tell you why, because the guy didn’t break any laws .
Weather Howard broke the law or not, Mr Gural gets to say who can and who can’t race at his racetracks. Don’t like it, go race somewhere else. It’s gurals track so it’s his rules.
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Here’s another newsflash ! Most horsemen could care less if they race at Meadowlands, they race two nights a week with trackmaster and amateur races dominating the cards. The money’s better at Yonkers and you don’t have to deal with a piece of garbage like Gural.
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Here’s another newsflash ! Most horsemen could care less if they race at Meadowlands, they race two nights a week with trackmaster and amateur races dominating the cards. The money’s better at Yonkers and you don’t have to deal with a piece of garbage like Gural.
Well then that’s the way to go if you like watching Bartlett go around in circles at winning 3/5 all night. Not my cup of tea but to each his own.
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Just got confirmation right from the source so I’ll say it again for the millionth time. There is no proof or evidence that Mr Taylor purchased or distributed any kind of performance enhancing drug. You people can quote any source that you want No proof No evidence that anything like this occurred. Gural can keep Howard Taylor out of his races At the Meadowlands. Hambletonian Society and New Jersey sire stakes Mr Gural can whistle Dixie, he has no control to stop anybody from racing in those races. Whatever you people think Howard Taylor purchased, there is no proof that it was anything illegal. We don’t live in China We don’t live in Russia , in our country there has to be proof. A bunch of blowhards shooting their mouths off on Horseplop does not constitute proof.
Hey genious - In howard's OWN court filing they admit it wasn't EPO. They say "peptide mimtetic specifically designed to be like EPO" So you made something to look and act like epo but not test. Either way you slice it that's a PED and you ordered it and used it. You specifically used something you knew would not test and that's a conspiracy. Howard is about to get himself indicted with his stupid defammation suit. He's going to hang himself.
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Hey genious - In howard's OWN court filing they admit it wasn't EPO. They say "peptide mimtetic specifically designed to be like EPO" So you made something to look and act like epo but not test. Either way you slice it that's a PED and you ordered it and used it. You specifically used something you knew would not test and that's a conspiracy. Howard is about to get himself indicted with his stupid defammation suit. He's going to hang himself.
We can only hope.
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Hey genious - In howard's OWN court filing they admit it wasn't EPO. They say "peptide mimtetic specifically designed to be like EPO" So you made something to look and act like epo but not test. Either way you slice it that's a PED and you ordered it and used it. You specifically used something you knew would not test and that's a conspiracy. Howard is about to get himself indicted with his stupid defammation suit. He's going to hang himself.
That would be poetic justice! tmbz1
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Hey genious - In howard's OWN court filing they admit it wasn't EPO. They say "peptide mimtetic specifically designed to be like EPO" So you made something to look and act like epo but not test. Either way you slice it that's a PED and you ordered it and used it. You specifically used something you knew would not test and that's a conspiracy. Howard is about to get himself indicted with his stupid defammation suit. He's going to hang himself.
I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING. I CANT BELIEVE HE WOULDNT JUST LAY LOW AND PUT HIS HORSES ON SOMEONE ELSE NAME LIKE MOST OF THEM ON LIST ARE DOING OR ALREADY HAVE. IN MY OPINION EVEN IF HOWARD WINS, HE LOSES!
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The banning isn’t the issue. Gural claiming the Howard bought EPO and gave it to his trainers to use is the problem. If Howard was really ordering it himself and insisting his trainers use it then why didn’t he ban all of his trainers. I’m glad to see Gural trying to do something but he gotta stick to known facts when talking to press
This comes down to a few simple things.
1. Does the reporter have Gural on tape/email for the comments in question.
2. If the reporter and the statement is accurate it moves thru the court system.
3. If the reporter is wrong or misquoted Gooooooffffrrraaa alllll, then the reporter makes the correction and admits it was his/her mistake.
4. The Meadowlands issued its release on Nov. 3, “Gural was quoted in Thoroughbred Racing News saying that Taylor, ‘had to be giving EPO [Epogen] to his trainers to use and not a single trainer picked up the phone and said I have an owner who wants me to use EPO on his horses.’ That statement was untrue. No facts, in either The Meadowlands’ press release or the article, supported the claim that Taylor ever gave Epogen to any of his trainers or that Taylor ever instructed any trainer to use Epogen on his horses.
So obviously someone is LYING / TELLING a STORY and of course it can't be Mr JewLie Gural ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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More BULLSHIT from Gooooofffffrrraaa alllll
As a standardbred owner/breeder who also owns three tracks — Vernon Downs, Tioga Downs, and The Meadowlands — the last of which does not have casino gaming, Gural said his perspective on PED use was markedly different from that on display at most racinos.
1. He doesn't own The Meadowlands, he leases it.
2. Nobody ever heard of Gooooofffrrrraaaa alllll until when. Casino gaming at Vernon and Tioga, plain and simple.
3. He got invoplved with the Meadowlands for 1 REASON, to get the casino.
4. He doesn't own or run the the Sportsbook at the Meadowlands, he sold that license to the highest bidder, which turned out to be FanDuel.
“There’s no desire on the part of the casino companies to see horse racing survive, and if they could, for economic reasons, they would be happy if it disappeared,” he said. “That’s my impression. So, the fact that I own and breed and race, makes a big difference, and obviously, I want to race. I don’t want to race against people whose horses are using performance-enhancing drugs.”
1. You are correct Gooooofffrrrraaaa lllll, you employ them, Andy and Julie, Ake and Ronnie 11.wp 11.wp 11.wp 11.wp 11.wp
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Purger ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Hey genious - In howard's OWN court filing they admit it wasn't EPO. They say "peptide mimtetic specifically designed to be like EPO" So you made something to look and act like epo but not test. Either way you slice it that's a PED and you ordered it and used it. You specifically used something you knew would not test and that's a conspiracy. Howard is about to get himself indicted with his stupid defammation suit. He's going to hang himself.
HT didn’t order it. It was on a vet bill and he paid it. Any of you geniuses know what BB3 is? NO and you all want to hang HT for not knowing what it is. Most owners have no idea what the medications on the vet bill are. That is why they hired a professional to look after their horses instead of trying to do it themselves
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HT didn’t order it. It was on a vet bill and he paid it. Any of you geniuses know what BB3 is? NO and you all want to hang HT for not knowing what it is. Most owners have no idea what the medications on the vet bill are. That is why they hired a professional to look after their horses instead of trying to do it themselves
"I didn't know what I was buying" can't hold up as a valid excuse.
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Here’s another newsflash ! Most horsemen could care less if they race at Meadowlands, they race two nights a week with trackmaster and amateur races dominating the cards. The money’s better at Yonkers and you don’t have to deal with a piece of garbage like Gural.
Dude do all the flashes you want. Your another little dick behind a trench coat. Trying to play arm charm litigator, on a high school equivalency. You sound like a fool with the shit your spewing.
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I used to buy weed illegally, am I banned from betting???
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"I didn't know what I was buying" can't hold up as a valid excuse.
He didn’t buy it his trainer did. Have you ever owned a racehorse? Ever employed a trainer? Owners rely on the trainer and the vet to do what is best for their horses
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He didn’t buy it his trainer did. Have you ever owned a racehorse? Ever employed a trainer? Owners rely on the trainer and the vet to do what is best for their horses
The invoice says Howard Taylor and he is hands on owner who represents cheaters .He didn't fall off the same turnip truck as you.
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The invoice says Howard Taylor and he is hands on owner who represents cheaters .He didn't fall off the same turnip truck as you.
Hands on?? Are you that stupid his main focus is his law practice. Yes he represents some bad actors but that is what any lawyer has to do to make a living. He is not at the barn watching what goes on every day. He relies on professionals to take care of daily care and pays the invoices he receives. He is no different than 90% of the other owners of horses in any discipline. Again none of you rocket scientist here knew what BB3 was a month ago
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I never received vet bills with my name on it. It was invoiced to the trainer. He forwarded copy to me for payment.
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Hands on?? Are you that stupid his main focus is his law practice. Yes he represents some bad actors but that is what any lawyer has to do to make a living. He is not at the barn watching what goes on every day. He relies on professionals to take care of daily care and pays the invoices he receives. He is no different than 90% of the other owners of horses in any discipline. Again none of you rocket scientist here knew what BB3 was a month ago
Howard Taylor Facebook
Intro
Works at Harness Racing
Works at Law offices of Howard A Taylor
Studied at Temple University
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Hands on?? Are you that stupid his main focus is his law practice. Yes he represents some bad actors but that is what any lawyer has to do to make a living. He is not at the barn watching what goes on every day. He relies on professionals to take care of daily care and pays the invoices he receives. He is no different than 90% of the other owners of horses in any discipline. Again none of you rocket scientist here knew what BB3 was a month ago
LOL Your hilarious. Main focus is law practice. Are you kidding? How many slip and fall cases did Howard litigate this yr? On his tax returns what's income breakdown? My guess is maybe 5% comes from being a lawyer and I'm being generous.
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I never received vet bills with my name on it. It was invoiced to the trainer. He forwarded copy to me for payment.
Most smart trainers do not pay the vet bills. They let the vet take the risk of getting stuck if an owner doesn’t pay
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LOL Your hilarious. Main focus is law practice. Are you kidding? How many slip and fall cases did Howard litigate this yr? On his tax returns what's income breakdown? My guess is maybe 5% comes from being a lawyer and I'm being generous.
No way he is paying the bills on 100+ horses on purse money
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He didn’t buy it his trainer did. Have you ever owned a racehorse? Ever employed a trainer? Owners rely on the trainer and the vet to do what is best for their horses
Let's get serious here for a second. Extensive race horse owner experience is really gonna hold up as an excuse here? Whatever you pay for as an owner, you are responsible for, stan. Let's be real
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Let's get serious here for a second. Extensive race horse owner experience is really gonna hold up as an excuse here? Whatever you pay for as an owner, you are responsible for, stan. Let's be real
Have you ever seen a manager go to jail when someone under them did something illegal??
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Managers/CEO's are held accountable for their employees all the time! Where are you from?
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Have you ever seen a manager go to jail when someone under them did something illegal??
You can not be serious
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Howard Taylor is a CRIMINAL. His number is up, and now its time that Howard the cheat in harness racing, marriage, and the game of life, face the music. He's a scum bag, and viewed as such even in the legal community. He's struggling to NOT lose his racing clients. When i reality his b & b is Personal Injury law. A stereotypical ambulance chaser like his father Jerome!
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Howard is a scumbag fucking cheat!! Straight up fucktard that couldn’t train or drive a 5 claimer back in the day at Brandywine…
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Did anyone see the invoice details from Fishman to Howard Taylor?? I don’t
Know much as an owner about these products but it struck me as odd that BB3 was on that list- a EPO mimetic and then multiple orders of Thyrosil L in 10 lb bags. Isn’t that a hormone?? As an owner I would be questioning my trainer and asking him why he’s using BB3 and pounds of this Thyrosil L. about 6x10 lbs of it on one invoice ??
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Did anyone see the invoice details from Fishman to Howard Taylor?? I don’t
Know much as an owner about these products but it struck me as odd that BB3 was on that list- a EPO mimetic and then multiple orders of Thyrosil L in 10 lb bags. Isn’t that a hormone?? As an owner I would be questioning my trainer and asking him why he’s using BB3 and pounds of this Thyrosil L. about 6x10 lbs of it on one invoice ??
Thyrosil L is Levothyroxine Powder. It is not an anabolic.
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Thyrosil L is Levothyroxine Powder. It is not an anabolic.
Thank you.
I just looked this up--its a prescription item (hormone)used on horses with low thyroid hormone---why would you order some 60 POUNDS of it??How could ANY vet prescribe this much?? wouldn't you question this large amount on your monthly invoice??
https://www.chewy.com/thyro-l-levothyroxine-sodium-powder/dp/173753?utm_id=401694979&msclkid=41151779b13a1405c1317206054cbd40&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_NC_Pet_HC_Pharmacy&utm_term=4585238373786555&utm_content=Thyroid%20Care
How could this many horses have thyroid problems--just interested as it seems weird to me.
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Thank you.
I just looked this up--its a prescription item (hormone)used on horses with low thyroid hormone---why would you order some 60 POUNDS of it??How could ANY vet prescribe this much?? wouldn't you question this large amount on your monthly invoice??
https://www.chewy.com/thyro-l-levothyroxine-sodium-powder/dp/173753?utm_id=401694979&msclkid=41151779b13a1405c1317206054cbd40&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_NC_Pet_HC_Pharmacy&utm_term=4585238373786555&utm_content=Thyroid%20Care
How could this many horses have thyroid problems--just interested as it seems weird to me.
You can count on one hand the number of horses that are actually hypothyroid. Levo is given to horses anyway to speed up metabolism but I can promise you there are major side effects such as causing a horse to bleed due to increasing the blood pressure and also reducing the blood's ability to clot. Secondly, it wreaks havoc on the heart causing it to afib as well as arrhythmia issues. Thirdly, it messes with bone density which can be catastrophic. Of course, if your horse doesn't suffer these side effects, it will make one go faster and last longer but overdosing it long term is a recipe for disaster.
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/258165/study-connects-thyro-l-supplement-to-cardiac-arrhythmia
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Thanks Mike--very interesting--and my take is after reading your post--this is simply a PED used to make horses run faster--with 0 regard for their health--as Im sure--as the article has pointed out--you need to do a blood test to determine if a horse is hypothyroid--and if it isnt ( Im assuming most are)then as Mike pointed out--leads to serious health problems--which seemingly no one gives a shit about--its all about $$$.
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Thanks Mike--very interesting--and my take is after reading your post--this is simply a PED used to make horses run faster--with 0 regard for their health--as Im sure--as the article has pointed out--you need to do a blood test to determine if a horse is hypothyroid--and if it isnt ( Im assuming most are)then as Mike pointed out--leads to serious health problems--which seemingly no one gives a shit about--its all about $$$.
You're right on point. It is one of the most abused drugs out there. I know there was talk by the NY Gaming Commission to establish an acceptable level for a horse and start flagging horses that exceeded it but I haven't heard anything lately.
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Hands on?? Are you that stupid his main focus is his law practice. Yes he represents some bad actors but that is what any lawyer has to do to make a living. He is not at the barn watching what goes on every day. He relies on professionals to take care of daily care and pays the invoices he receives. He is no different than 90% of the other owners of horses in any discipline. Again none of you rocket scientist here knew what BB3 was a month ago
Based on this all Gural should do is suspend every trainer from his tracks that HT employed at the time of those invoices were sent and paid. Then after suspending all of HT’s trainers then Gural should just tell HT he is excluding him without giving any reason because he has a right to do so. You just figured it all out.
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Yes!! If the indicted are all sitting in jail for using this Fishman shit— who did Howard Taylor give or write those checks for?? Should’t those trainers all be banned/jail???
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No way he is paying the bills on 100+ horses on purse money
Most of all HT horses are on deals and he barely pays any training bills.
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Most of all HT horses are on deals and he barely pays any training bills.
If his horses were all on deals then HT is really in deep shit. Why in the world would he ever buy any drugs for Fishman?? To be a nice guy and pay for his trainers balances with Fishman? No that can’t be right because a few of the horses name on the invoice were coincidentally owned by HT at the time he accidentally paid those invoices. ngc3 Stevie wonder could see this one.