Why Standardbred times have gotten faster but thoroughbreds have stayed the same

[Scooteroo]

Through the years harness horse times have gotten faster while thoroughbreds have remained the same. Is it because the track surfaces have improved, better equipment, or better breeding or a combination of all three? In spite of this the stud fees for the top thoroughbred sires are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars while the highest harness horse stud fees are around $20,000.

[simplify]

Rarely are thoroughbred times talked about.
What is the fascination with harness racing times??

[Scooteroo]

Personally, I don't pay much attention to times, but alot of people make a big deal out of world records and lifetime marks. Some harness people will actually bet an inferior horse because his time was faster in his last race even though he sucked along and did nothing.

[Harness Stats]

I guess the two biggest trotting studs don't count.  Their stud fees are twice your high point.

Probably one of the most meaningless posts on this site overall.  The entire harness world knows the answers why harness horses get faster and TBreds don't, and true harness people don't bet on inferior horses who sucked along for a fast time.  Only the newbies and uninformed do.

[Scooteroo]

Forgive me for not knowing the exact stud fees but even if those two are doubled they're nowhere near what the T-breds are. People who don't go to the track often or see the races handicap by the past performances which don't tell what really happened. Are you implying harness times have gotten faster because of juicing because it also goes on with the T-breds?

[Laag]

breeding them for speed rather than for durability and thats why you dont see many good ones last long anymore and all the starts are limited

[JENNY FROM THE BLOCK]

is technology in equip (race bikes) and pre race.

[JENNY FROM THE BLOCK]

and breeding

[Zack]

Years back the standardbreads looked more like a quarter horse built for stamina. Today they look more like a thoroughbred built for speed.

The obsession with speed has killed the standardbread industry, horses do not last long anymore.

Track surfaces has also become harder making for faster speeds and broken bones. I think the track obsession started at the Meadowlands back in the late 70s with Defrank and company.

[JT]

breeding them for speed rather than for durability and thats why you dont see many good ones last long anymore and all the starts are limited

[kooter for hipin]

Personally, I don't pay much attention to times, but alot of people make a big deal out of world records and lifetime marks. Some harness people will actually bet an inferior horse because his time was faster in his last race even though he sucked along and did nothing.

I like this one.   

[seen2much]

The obvious answer is different equipment. The bikes are seconds faster, rock hard racing surfaces, & lots of PED's.
HISA in the Thoroughbreds is making a difference too.

[kooter for hipin]

I guess the two biggest trotting studs don't count.  Their stud fees are twice your high point.

Probably one of the most meaningless posts on this site overall.  The entire harness world knows the answers why harness horses get faster and TBreds don't, and true harness people don't bet on inferior horses who sucked along for a fast time.  Only the newbies and uninformed do.

I hope that is only your opinion. I only raced overnights and only claimed horses with tactile speed for a reason, to suck along, especially on half mile tracks. I enjoy Nascar and thus the word drafting. In the 60's thru 80's, I WAS a big part of the harness world and I can't believe YOU said these things.

[Chips N Salsa]

Very easy.  Thoroughbreds have peaked out through breeding.  You won't see them get any faster and you will see more and more breakdowns because of inbreeding and evolution of breeding 3x2 and 2x2

[Hambletonian46]

My take is that it is a result of artifical insemination. The need for live covers greatly reduces the number of potential offspring for any one sire. In harness racing, you already have a much smaller pool of offspring each year, and I am guessing that a small number of high quality sires dominate the gene pool since artificial insemination predominates.

Another issue may very well be that thoroughbreds have lost so much durability that few horses are still sound and racing when they are fully mature.

When I was a kid a good thoroughbred could go around 1:34 for a mile....and a million years later that is basically the same. For standardbreds, I am old to enough to remember when a sub 2 minute mile meant something. I cannot recall the last race I watched that was not in a blizzard where the winner did not go under 2 minutes. I guess I would have to go a fair and watch some 2yos nickel bred trotters for that pleasure nowadays.