UGH OH - super horse Karl beat

[Grandstand Handicapper]

my 2 cents probably not worth 1 cent..... the best trotters i have seen are scarlett knight,varenne,muscle hill,bold eagle. karl very good wouldnt make my top 10

How about this....a penny for your thoughts....and everyone always gives their 2 cents....so where's the extra penny? LOL.

Would Karl make your top 20 GOAT? Not mine.

Bold Eagle...hell of a horse! I don't think I mentioned him in any of my posts on trotters and that's a mistake! Thanks for bringing him him. What a campaign that horse had and raced as a 9yo. After an amazing career throughout Europe, he showed up in Canada and won the Breeders Crown! Hell of a horse!

[TimTimTimbo]

I would think, and most people would argue subjectively, that common sense certainly has a part in this. However, certainly more objectively, is knowledge about horses. Knowing what you are looking at when watching horses race is all about not how fast a horse is doing something, but how he/she is doing what he/she is doing----doing it easy, all-out, gait, efficiency, pace, versatility, trip, game, not game, soundness, and so on and so on. There are countless elements you look at while watching a horse, and a horse race.

It's easy to watch Karl win the Hambo, look at the teletimer, and say he won, he's the best horse----in that race, that day. How that equates to GOAT I have absolutely no idea, LOL. I still confidently say that adding him to any GOAT list is rather imprudent and thoughtless. But, he won. So, that race, that day? In the division? For the year? Put him on a GOAT list? No. On the other hand, if you know what you are looking at, know about horses, are a good judge of horses, races, understand horse racing, etc.----his victory becomes very different. Did he get lucky? Did he trip out? Did the race go his way? Now, if you are the owner, what would you care, you still got the check and the check cleared! LOL.

So, I guess you could arrive at the conclusion that perhaps if you don't have common sense, then you can't really have the intellect, knowledge, capacity, etc., to really know about horses and horseracing.

IMO Bold Eagle and Varenne were better than any trotter we have had.

Europeans are usually better over all. They have been coming here for years and except for one or two instances, They are tougher.

[seen2much]

There is no chance Karl is in the top 20 of all-time.

[Any1Left]

Talking to educated old timers as i was to young when this horse raced and watching you tube races i would say that French trotting filly UNE DE MAI was the best and no driver that ive seen looked worse than him also when she retired they paraded her every where,,,,,,,,,,, Verenne would be right up there and Ideal de gazeau,,,,,,,,,,,

[bond]

Watch this video--this is what a GOAT looks like.
Goes 1.50(track Record) on a 5/8 parked every step of the way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuksGnAi6gY&t=123s

[Grandstand Handicapper]

Talking to educated old timers as i was to young when this horse raced and watching you tube races i would say that French trotting filly UNE DE MAI was the best and no driver that ive seen looked worse than him also when she retired they paraded her every where,,,,,,,,,,, Verenne would be right up there and Ideal de gazeau,,,,,,,,,,,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCeX__IV264

[Any1Left]

Thank you GRANDSTAND as i have never seen that race and the driver looked worse than in other races,,,,,,,,,,,REALLY REALLY enjoyed that    thanks again,,,,,,,,

[Grandstand Handicapper]

Watch this video--this is what a GOAT looks like.
Goes 1.50(track Record) on a 5/8 parked every step of the way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuksGnAi6gY&t=123s

I guess 150 satisfies the teletimer theory, and on a 5/8ths track!

[Grandstand Handicapper]

Thank you GRANDSTAND as i have never seen that race and the driver looked worse than in other races,,,,,,,,,,,REALLY REALLY enjoyed that    thanks again,,,,,,,,

You're very welcome.

[Grandstand Handicapper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWmTphbRtjM

Listen, I know it's only 51 and 1.....but, come on.

[lost cause]

i remember like yesterday they interviewed the trainer of varenne and he cockily said 51,52 it dont matter im good. this was 2001! as for bold eagle i watched alot of sweden racing and when he came for breeders crown i told anyone who would listen he will win for fun.still cant believe he went off so high

[Grandstand Handicapper]

How about this one.....Grades Singing!

When she retired only Peace Corps had won more money and Grades Singing didn't have any big money races as a 2yo. Over the span of her career, she went on to win three Breeders Crowns. Three! And seven world records! Do you think we should let Karl race in one BC first? Nah, even if he wins, he's not on any respectable person's GOAT list.

Now, ready for this.....as a 4yo.....at Yonkers.....SHE BEAT PACERS! Anyone remember this? Now, if you don't believe this, before you claim it isn't true.....like George Berkner training Goalie Jeff.....you might want to check this out.....unless you have an aversion to being wrong.

She won 20 of 25 at three, including multiple NYSS, about ten Quebec Circuit Stakes, and the CTA Championship. At four, she raced 41 times, finishing first-second 34 times, winning the Maple Leaf Trot, the American Trotting Classic, the World Cup (with a world record) and the Breeders Crown. As a 5yo, she was sold overseas, and in her overseas campaign spanned several years where she won the Elitlopp, the Premio Gaetano Turilli, the Gran Premio della Lotteria, and the Prize of Nations, the Vermo Cup and the Finlandia, and the the Prijs de Giganten, which was the most prestigious race in Holland. She came back to Canada, won another Breeders Crown, and by the time she retired she had 148 starts in nine countries.

Sorry, I forgot this thread was about Karl being one of the greatest of all time.

[rainman2]

I guess 150 satisfies the teletimer theory, and on a 5/8ths track!

MIKE hasn't posted is a while now (at least 1 page)!

Does this mean that this thread is 'finally' over?

I'm going to miss my personal "punching bag" here!

[Grandstand Handicapper]

I sent an email to Bob Marks and asked him his trotting GOAT list.

He said the following:
"Muscle Hill is the best I ever saw, after that Speedy Scott, Roquepine, Un De Mai, Mack Lobell, Oursasi, Moni Maker, and some that you named. Self Possessed is somewhere on the list as is Walner"

I don't think Bob has the built in bias someone like Murray Brown has, although I respect Bob's opinion about a million times more than Murray's. I always look for bias. I don't think Bob has any. He worked for Perretti for a long time, and Boardwalk before that. If he has a bias, maybe, just maybe it would be because he admired Ron Gurfein, but I don't know if that is true.

So, he gave 9. In my email to him -- I named 5 to my GOAT list -- Varenne, Ourasi, Moni Maker, Mack Lobell, and Muscle Hill. The others I mentioned I posed to him as a question, as I was trying to prompt additional insight from him. I was also interested in his perspective on horses of different eras. Those horses were:
Ideal Du Gazeau
Lutin d’Isigny
Delmonica Hanover
Nevele Pride
Une de Mai
Commander Crowe
Bold Eagle
Donato Hanover
Deweycheatumnhowe
Scarlet Knight

[Any1Left]

We had a FFA horse here in TORONTO called CRYSTAL LENS who was super lame and he had four legs move in different directions but i would have loved to see him sound,,,,,,,,,,,He was a super high priced horse out of a world champion mare and was sold for a small amount as an older horse but was he fast