Was Rambling Willie a juiced horse? Yes or No?

[Harness Stats]

You can't compare starts with a gelding and two of the premier studs of their time.  Niatross and Cam Fella were not meant to be warhorses or race past the age of 4.

[Berwyn]

He has sublimate and M99 fruit cocktail.

[SDST2009]

From the sounds of it he was pretty lame a lot of the time. They weren't going the speeds they are now of course, but you can't quickly heal a bowed tendon. I don't know if I would used the term "juiced," exactly, but I think it's possible some drugs that are now disallowed might've been in play which, at the time, there was no test for. I am not certain of the testing protocol back then, but I bet it was a bit looser (less informed) than today.

As a kid, I loved reading the book about him. He's a hero in my my mind, because he was a really nice horse, in a time where there weren't a ton going that fast, let alone for so long. And for what it's worth, he couldn't have been that irreparably crippled, because he lived a long, fine life at the Kentucky Horse Park.

[Grandstand Handicapper]

You can't compare starts with a gelding and two of the premier studs of their time.  Niatross and Cam Fella were not meant to be warhorses or race past the age of 4.

Apples and bowling balls. Excellent point. How they manage the horse is always going to be a major factor.

[rainman2]

Apples and bowling balls. Excellent point. How they manage the horse is always going to be a major factor.

Time for a harness racing lesson and a bowling ball lesson all in one.

Harness racing--The changing of the sulkies in the mid 1970' so they went faster.  Also, the off-center sulky to get through the turns better as well as lighter sulkies.  The banking of the turns for more speed too!

Bowling balls-----Bowling balls are made of:
A coverstock (outer shell) and a weight block (core)
The coverstock can be made of plastic, urethane, reactive resin, or particles, which affect the friction and reaction with the bowling lane
The weight block can be either high mass or low mass, which influence the roll of the ball
The interior of the ball can be made of dense plastic or ceramic material, with a weight block in the center.

In the 1960' rubber bowling balls.  Next step was urethane. Urethane would hit harder than plastic and knock down more pins.
Resin--hits harder than urethane.  The shell and the weight block can make the ball hook (more rotation) which knocks down more pins (aka see above with the improved sulky in racing).

Bonus attraction:  Golf clubs--Jack Nickalus played with wooden clubs and still hit the ball a ton.  Now look at today as clubs are made from titanium and they are designed to make a ball go straighter on contact.

[kooter for hipin]

Before my time but some of my friends who were at the track before me say that Willie was really the horse that started all of the exotic drugs in harness racing. Yes or no?

You have no idea what you are saying. Bob Farrington drove Newmarket Red and several others for me at Sportsman and Maywood. His Wife Vivian was a church lady who owned half interest in Willie and gave her winnings to the church as tithe. Saying shit like that on hear say. And yes he had bowed tendons,and for your information there's a book been out for years, "Rambling Willie the Horse that God Loved." I hope this isn't redundant.

[kooter for hipin]

In his day, Rambling Willie was a great horse. I think a lot of people look at him as more like a premier Open/Invitational pacer, but let's not forget he was aged pacer of the year three years in a row and retired as the leading money winner of all time. Yes, he numerous stakes races, more than once, but for the most part he did it the hard way. Won something like 120 plus races in 300 something starts. I saw him race in the years he won aged pacer of the year, and later, before he retired.

Would I put him on my list of top 10 list of aged pacers? Yes. Do I put RW on my top 10 of all time? Obviously as everyone knows, it's hard to compare eras, and then compound that with comparing all ages. This one raced at 2 and 3, and this one didn't race at 2 and 3, but did all this at 4, 5, 6, etc. That said, RW doesn't make my Top 10 list, but upon further reflection, he's probably close. I think horses of yesteryear tend to fade a bit in memory with the dramatizing of today's times, the horses today, and the landscape of the sport and business.

Great Post!   

[kooter for hipin]

Ask Dean Collins he looked after him for a while. FACT

Thats correct, however Bob sent him to Dean, who I believe was at the Meadows at the time, to keep him fresh for his NY campaign. There's a notation in the book about Willie and his time with Dean Collins.   

[kooter for hipin]

agree that todays world everyone stares at the clock


Bulldog Hanover
Always B Miki

for example

both very fast horses and fast times--but many of us old guys are not enamored by the final time or final quarter

times have changed--now all the talk is..."look at that final quarter", which is a metric of yesteryear's thinking

 So true!   

[JT]

He was a great war horse and did it the hard way. All this Bulldog Hanover talk is just silly. Was he fast yes but in no way shape or form was he in the same league as Bret Hanover or Niatross. Not quite in my top 10 either Grandstand but dam close. The only horse I can think of in this era who is similar.. but not nearly as good so don't come at me is Southwind Amazon 366 starts 131 -62 -52. 1.5 million earned and yes he should be retired

[Foalin at 4]

 Could you imagine Niatross with a catch driver, Yippee Ki Yay, I love Clint, but the man couldn't drive a nail thru warm bread. Who would you have chosen to drive? Walley Hennessey!

[rainman2]

Could you imagine Niatross with a catch driver, Yippee Ki Yay, I love Clint, but the man couldn't drive a nail thru warm bread. Who would you have chosen to drive? Walley Hennessey!

A little before Wally's time!   LOL

Try Bill O'Donnell, Ron Waples, Buddy Gilmour

[kooter for hipin]

He was a great war horse and did it the hard way. All this Bulldog Hanover talk is just silly. Was he fast yes but in no way shape or form was he in the same league as Bret Hanover or Niatross. Not quite in my top 10 either Grandstand but dam close. The only horse I can think of in this era who is similar.. but not nearly as good so don't come at me is Southwind Amazon 366 starts 131 -62 -52. 1.5 million earned and yes he should be retired

Nice post and you get the point. I wish you would google "Remembering Rambling Willie" along with others here. Of course everyone who named a horse is correct but not for the  times and equiptment. Also Bob Farrington was the original "Redman" in Chicago. He was on a par with all from NY.   

[Foalin at 4]

A little before Wally's time!   LOL

Try Bill O'Donnell, Ron Waples, Buddy Gilmour

 

 I guess Wally was just driving my horses in 1980