Author Topic: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!  (Read 2157 times)

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davenchop

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2019, 05:48:48 PM »
every thread you read there is always one stroke who thinks hes clever and funny...agreed very sad person...
you cant lose if you dont bet

swoodall

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2019, 01:05:26 AM »
You would think the drivers would stick together on this issue of pace related fines.

That race the purse was $13,000.00

Winner's share $6500

Driver/trainer split $650

So the driver earns $325 for his winning drive.

Then the stewards take away $200 for violating an unwritten rule for slow fractions based on class.

That's a loss of 61% of their earnings for driving the way Yannick drives in every race he has ever driven. 11.wp

The stewards should be forced to list the expected fractions for every class of race they write!

That way every horseman is aware of what is expected if you choose to leave and set the pace.

Also every fan will then expect the stewards to penalize every driver who violates these expected fractions.

No more gray areas. No more selective enforcement. 91zxa.1

One would think Howard Taylor could have a field day against this rule. 98za.ag
"Recapture" The Reynolds,Insko,Edgar,Duffy,Walker,Duchossios,Kubic,Kane,Johnston Legacy!

Wendall Tilley

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2019, 05:06:42 AM »
The Master is right on this one.That's why yonkers sucks.When horses that can pace in 53 go a second quarter in 30 like they do in most races,horses in the back are eliminated mathematically because of the speed they would have to go to gain ground.Like pace 24 second quarters ?

the master

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2019, 07:06:57 AM »
You would think the drivers would stick together on this issue of pace related fines.

That race the purse was $13,000.00

Winner's share $6500

Driver/trainer split $650

So the driver earns $325 for his winning drive.

Then the stewards take away $200 for violating an unwritten rule for slow fractions based on class.

That's a loss of 61% of their earnings for driving the way Yannick drives in every race he has ever driven. 11.wp

The stewards should be forced to list the expected fractions for every class of race they write!

That way every horseman is aware of what is expected if you choose to leave and set the pace.

Also every fan will then expect the stewards to penalize every driver who violates these expected fractions.

No more gray areas. No more selective enforcement. 91zxa.1

One would think Howard Taylor could have a field day against this rule. 98za.ag

For many years, there was a slow quarter rule in the USTA rule book. Because the judges rarely enforced it, it was removed!

Parked

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2019, 07:08:56 AM »
Its not the 1/4 speed, its the 1/32 of a mile when they stop the horse once they get on top. Something in the rulles about causing confusion among trailing horses. Not much confusion as drivers know what is going to happen.
They should say horses are going a mile but racing just the first and last 1/8 th.. Might as well change over to 1/4 mile dashes..   

Powerful Patricks Ghost

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2019, 07:32:12 AM »
Looked back at the fractions for the night of the card where Cullen was fined. Both Filion and Chody had slower middle fraction in a higher class race and clearly weren't fined.







Superfecta

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2019, 07:53:39 AM »
#5 Tragically Zip just sucked and couldn't go any faster.  ;D

bond

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2019, 08:42:55 AM »
The Master is right on this one.That's why yonkers sucks.When horses that can pace in 53 go a second quarter in 30 like they do in most races,horses in the back are eliminated mathematically because of the speed they would have to go to gain ground.Like pace 24 second quarters ?

I happen to agree fully!! tmbz1  .There should be a rule enforced that clearly outlines the expected SLOWEST second 1/4 fractions .
Harness racing has been ruined by non enforcement of this rule!!. This is because if a race shows a horse with great gate speed drawn inside with a leading driver=ALL the gamblers know that the outside horses will be mathematically eliminated DUE TO SLOW SECOND 1/4 because horses will not be able to come to the outside the last half AND WIN-as there will now be a SPRINT HOME.
THIS REDUCES THE HANDLE.!!
AT YONKERS NO SECOND 1/4 SHOULD GO SLOWER THAN 29 SECONDS ON A FAST TRACK FOR PACERS 30 SECONDS TROTTERS---IN ANY CLASS. LETS KEEP IT SIMPLE.
SAME AT POCONO,CHESTER AND MEADOWLANDS.
FREEHOLD-30 SECONDS SECOND 1/4 31 FOR TROTTERS.

I realize that drivers on your horse are expected to do what they can to win--however going slow fractions in 2nd 1/4-while great for the leaders-eliminates those at the back and will/has result in LESS betting. This is not good for the sport where we are trying to increase handle.
Now its pet walking and great for some-terrible for others and no good for the sport.

slimshady

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2019, 11:08:44 AM »
The Master  ....    "This is just one of those answers that proves you have no clue! Owners and trainers don't want their horses sacrificed with insane moves because the leader is trying to gain an unfair advantage!"

If the horse on the front end is going so slow that you want to fine the driver, how could it require an "insane move" to get to the front.   What the hell.    You can't suck and blow.     If the guy up front is shutting it down, move your horse.    If your horse can't brush past a guy putting up a .30 1/4, you may need a new horse, not a new judge.

Wilderness

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2019, 02:21:20 PM »
 LIKE YOU LOSERS THINK YOU KNOW HOW TO SAVE ANY FUCKING THING. YOU BASTARDS HAVENT A CLUE.  GET RID OF THE PASSING LANE, SLANT THE GATE,MAKE THE LEADER GO FAST.

 HOW ABOUT CHANGING THE WAY YOU HANDICAP A RACE?  BET THE FRONT RUNNERS.  NAH THAT MAKES TOO MUCH FUCKING SENSE, AND MOST OF YOU IDIOTS SPENT  YOUR SENSE ON 10 CENT SUPERS

Powerful Patricks Ghost

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2019, 06:41:06 PM »
LIKE YOU LOSERS THINK YOU KNOW HOW TO SAVE ANY FUCKING THING. YOU BASTARDS HAVENT A CLUE.  GET RID OF THE PASSING LANE, SLANT THE GATE,MAKE THE LEADER GO FAST.

 HOW ABOUT CHANGING THE WAY YOU HANDICAP A RACE?  BET THE FRONT RUNNERS.  NAH THAT MAKES TOO MUCH FUCKING SENSE, AND MOST OF YOU IDIOTS SPENT  YOUR SENSE ON 10 CENT SUPERS

None of this literally has anything to do with this thread. The judges found fit to punish a driver, via a vine, for not going fast enough. Gamblers did not cause this. As I pointed out in two charts from that night above, two other drivers had equally slow second quarters/fractions in higher class races and were not fined.

Hambletonian46

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2019, 07:00:24 PM »
   This is just one of those answers that proves you have no clue! Owners and trainers don't want their horses sacrificed with insane moves because the leader is trying to gain an unfair advantage! It is the judges responsibility to insure that every race is contested fairly and when betting interests are mathematically out of a race before the half it is extremely counter productive! I have been told that in Canada, when a driver is guilty of excessively backing down the half, the judges just take his 5% check! There should be a formula for an automatic penalty. For example, if there is more than 11 lengths between the first and second quarters the offender
is fined!

Gain an unfair advantage? Geez fucking louise.

Drivers are supposed to try and win, and whose fault is it if your horse is 20 lengths off of a slow pace?

In thoroughbred racing, they write sonnets about jockeys who can slow down the pace and nurse their horse along.

All this nonsense I guess is supposed to help the best horse win? Well if they want to do that run time trials not races. Or race the horses on mile straightaways so post position is taken out of play.

Unless a driver in front snatches up and causes interference he should be free to set the pace he can.

Stand Forever

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2019, 11:54:16 AM »

 
LOOK AT THIS BULLSHIT RACE AT MIAMI VALLEY YESTERDAY........ .


RACE 7 - Miami Valley Raceway - OH - April 15, 2019
 Conditions:   FILLIES & MARES N/W $4500 IN LAST 4 STARTS AE: CLAIMING $15,000 W/ALLOWANCES AE: N/W 4 PM RACES OR $40,000 LIFETIME   
 Gait: Pace     Purse: $12,000     Class: FMNW4500L4     Distance: 1 mile     Track Cond: FT     Temp-Allow: 48-0     Off Time: 3:58 PM
HN    Horse    PP    1/4    1/2    3/4    Str    Finish   Actual   LQ   Odds    Driver    Trainer
   
1    Mcpansy    1    1/2    1/1    1/Q    1/H    1/NS   1:55.4    28.0    *0.50     Brett Miller    Virgil Morgan Jr
   
   
4    Pull The Shade    4    4/5    4/3    3/1Q    3/1H    2/NS   1:55.4    27.4    10.70     Tyler Smith    Tim Maier
   
   
7    Good Roberta    7    7/8    7/7    2/Q    2/H    3/1Q   1:56.0    28.1    15.40     Dan Noble    Sean Mapes
   
   
3    Rolling Going Gone    3    3/3H    3/2    5/2T    5/6Q    4/5Q   1:56.4    28.2    5.00     Kyle Ater    Doug Hinklin
   
   
5    Royal Delta    5    5/6    5/4H    6/2T    6/6H    5/6   1:57.0    28.3    54.20     Josh Sutton    Emily Hay
   
   
2    Llama Llama    2    2/2    2/1    4/1T    4/5H    6/6T   1:57.1    29.0    2.60     Trace Tetrick    Ben Davis
   
   
6    Nat A Virgin    6    6/7    6/6    7/4T    7/8H    7/6T   1:57.1    28.2    49.40     Jason Brewer    Mervin Schmucker
   
Time:    28.4   58.4    (30.0)   1:27.4    (29.0)   1:55.4    (28.0)   
HN    Horse    Driver   Win    Place    Show    
1    Mcpansy    Brett Miller   3.20    2.60    2.10    
4    Pull The Shade    Tyler Smith       6.00    4.00    
7    Good Roberta    Dan Noble           3.80    
 Wager Type    Numbers/Payouts   Pool    
 Exacta    (1-4 $23.60)       
 Trifecta    (1-4-7 $35.15)       
 Superfecta    (1-4-7-3 $16.57)       


NOBLES HORSE WAS 7 BACK AT THAT CREEPING SLOW HALF OF 58.4 SO HE WENT 1:00:1 TO THE HALF.  MILLER WAS GOING SO SLOW AND NO ONE WAS PULLING SO DANNY BLITZED FROM LAST...UNTIL....H E GOT TO THE HORSE THAT CRAWLED THE FIRST 3/4'S - OF COURSE THE REST IS TYPICAL BULLSHIT

NOBLE'S HORSE CAME HOME THE SECOND HALF IN 55.4 AND DIDN'T WIN, AND IT WASNT THE MEADOWLANDS FUCKING PACE LOL WHATA FUCKIN JOKE.

RACES LIKE THIS, WHERE DRIVERS LIKE MILLER ARE BACKING DOWN THE HALF WAY TOO MUCH ARE CAUSING BETTORS TO WALK FOR SURE.

Stand Forever

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2019, 12:01:46 PM »
ALSO, THE NEXT 6 RACES AT MIAMI VALLEY, AFTER THIS RACE, THE HALF'S WENT IN 56.1 OR 56.0....I MEAN, REALLY, HOW DOES BRETT MILLER GET AWAY WITH THIS RACE AND NOT GET FINED, THATS JUST DISGRACEFUL.

IF I OWNED THE TRACK, I WOULD GIVE A 30 DAY SUSPENSION TO THE DRIVER, AND ALSO INVESTIGATE, BECAUSE WHY WAS EVERYONE SITTING CHILLY WHEN THEY WERE CRAWLING?? IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THIS AND COST THE RACETRACK REVENUES DUE TO SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY, THE DRIVER NEEDS TO PAY THE PRICE.

bond

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Re: Failing To Set A Pace Comparable To Class!
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2019, 05:07:56 PM »
Fully agree 100% with stand forever-he has a clue-spot on..

Of course-a driver is supposed to do what he can to win--but at what cost?? screw up racing?? Turn away gamblers?? The argument to just bet the leavers doesnt ring true-because by now EVERYONE knows which driver will leave. The top drivers pick the best horse and thats usually the ones that can leave-if not they know it can win anyway because its simply the best in the race.
Going slow second 1/4's has been the norm now for 10 years--and during this time the sport has cascaded downwards along with it.
Its not the main factor--but its a factor and an important one--destroys the excitement of the race and ruins it for the trainers and owners and mostly GAMBLERS of horses who draw outside-going to the races knowing that there is a VERY high chance they spend money for 0 return for that week.You cant pull early because if you get parked -your horse gets 0-so drivers sit in Indian file. Pet walking.
Time to get tough on this total BS.
 

 

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