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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: MikeAnt on January 15, 2023, 11:54:24 PM

Title: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: MikeAnt on January 15, 2023, 11:54:24 PM
Okay they are getting ready for round two sweep of trainers and drivers and now the time has come to look at the owners. The FEDs want to see the owners IRS tax history, where they get the money from and their choice of trainers in the past to see if things check out. This government intervention into harness racing is really starting to get very interesting for everyone. Who’s next, the grooms?
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Superfecta on January 16, 2023, 12:02:04 AM
Who’s next, the grooms?

Yes. Teach them to piss in a toilet and to stop contaminating the hay. That will put Howard Taylor out of business.  ;D
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: ferdinand the bull on January 16, 2023, 12:25:00 AM
Yes. Teach them to piss in a toilet and to stop contaminating the hay. That will put Howard Taylor out of business.  ;D
Agreed, the scapegoat be gone
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Harness racer on January 16, 2023, 08:44:57 AM
I've long said they are huge part of the problem.  Trainers get suspended and they just take their horse to the next best thing and it's business as usual.  Suspend the horse and punish the owner for using these pieces of shit!  Don't even let them sell or transfer a horse under suspension...we all know it will be bullshit!
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: 7thalongrail on January 16, 2023, 09:13:29 AM
Yes, cookie and mo, Rolls Royce, MooCoo, PT Stable, Prevost go from suspended to suspended trainer.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Harness racer on January 16, 2023, 09:16:50 AM
That list is a start...many many more though.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: ferdinand the bull on January 16, 2023, 09:34:26 AM
I've long said they are huge part of the problem.  Trainers get suspended and they just take their horse to the next best thing and it's business as usual.  Suspend the horse and punish the owner for using these pieces of shit!  Don't even let them sell or transfer a horse under suspension...we all know it will be bullshit!
They facilitate it all, accomplices
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Brown jug on January 16, 2023, 10:35:50 AM
good luck
 perhaps with some of the low life owners who dealt with these low life cheating scum trainers
you are not going to get the top end ones who have horses with a few of the top trainers and have for many years
try proving owners know the details of  horse training
there is different levels and involvement of owning horses, one rule does not apply to all
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: ferdinand the bull on January 16, 2023, 10:36:58 AM
good luck
 perhaps with some of the low life owners who dealt with these low life cheating scum trainers
you are not going to get the top end ones who have horses with a few of the top trainers and have for many years
try proving owners know the details of  horse training
there is different levels and involvement of owning horses, one rule does not apply to all
Crawford farms are untouchable in that case
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Harness racer on January 16, 2023, 12:09:26 PM
Crawford farms are untouchable in that case

Huge pieces of shit!
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: jupiter on January 16, 2023, 02:25:34 PM
Ya don't see him anymore.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Harness racer on January 16, 2023, 02:26:36 PM
Ya don't see him anymore.

I noticed that too.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Foalin at 4 on January 16, 2023, 03:34:52 PM
Ya don't see him anymore.
    No, he dumped her sorry ass. He's not stupid.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: LAW AND ORDER on January 16, 2023, 05:22:52 PM
MAN IF THIS IS TRUE ITS DEFINTELY GOING TO RUFFLE SOME FEATHERS. OWNERS IN CHICAGO LIKE MARTY EGGLE HAS LONG SKIPPED FROM JUICER TO JUICER WHEN THE BILLS COME DUE. HE IS A HORRIBLE PERSON AND NOT ONLY USES JUICERS, BUT DOESNT PAY THEM WHEN THE BILLS ARE DUE AND WHEN THE TRAINER THREATENS TO TURN THEM INTO THE STEWARDS, THEN MARTY SAYS GO AHEAD AND ILL TELL THEM THAT YOU ARE JUICING MY HORSES. YOU CANT WIN WITH A GUY LIKE MARTY  BUT I DO THINK IF THEY START MAKING THEM VERIFY THEIR SOUCE OF INCOME AND SHOW TAX RETURNS YOU WOULD SEE A LOT OF OWNERS RUNNING SCARED 
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: LAW AND ORDER on January 16, 2023, 05:32:00 PM
I DO BELIEVE IF THEY WANT TO CLEAN UP THE GAME THEY NEED TO LOOK AT THESE OWNERS WHO FUEL THE FIRE AND ENABLE AND SUPPLY THE MONEY TO CHEAT. AND WHEN YOU START TALKING IRS TO THE BIG MONEY PEOPLE, THEY NOW PAY ATTENTION. IF THEY REALLY GET THE IRS INVOLVED, I THINK IT WILL SHUT HARNESS RACING DOWN FOR GOOD.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Kirby's Ace on January 16, 2023, 07:21:29 PM
If they investigated some owners at Dover they'll have a field day!
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: The Exporter on January 17, 2023, 06:13:36 AM
I don't see the Feds getting involved in an operation like this. They will forward what they have to other agencies like IRS and state Gamming as well as State Attorneys offices. But, to investigate and build cases against owners when there is no responsibility of an owner for what a licensed trainer does.
 I don't see the states spending money and time to blacken their own eye either. Why go that route when all you need to do is disrupt the funding.   
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: LAW AND ORDER on January 17, 2023, 06:37:58 PM
I don't see the Feds getting involved in an operation like this. They will forward what they have to other agencies like IRS and state Gamming as well as State Attorneys offices. But, to investigate and build cases against owners when there is no responsibility of an owner for what a licensed trainer does.
 I don't see the states spending money and time to blacken their own eye either. Why go that route when all you need to do is disrupt the funding.
I DONT AGREE. WHY DID THE INVESTIGATE THE TRAINERS THEN? I'M TELLING YOU, THE PUBLIC IS TIRED OF BEING JACKED OVER SO THE FED'S HAD TO STEP IN AND DO SOMETHING. AND JUST SO YOU KNOW, THERE ARE PLENTY OF OWNER/TRAINERS AS WELL AS OWNERS SUPPLYING THE GO GO JUICE AND LAYING OFF THE FEDS RADAR. BELIEVE ME, IF AND WHEN THEY START WITH THE OWNERS YOU WILL SEE THE GAME DRY UP REAL FAST BECAUSE 95% OF THE TRAINERS ARE BUSTED AND COULDNT DO THE ILLEGAL SHIT WITHOUT THE OWNERS SUPPLYING THEM THE MONEY. YOU THINK SURICK, ALLARD AND DANE WERE SPENDING THEIR OWN MONEY ON THE RED ACID? FUCK NO. THEY GOT THE MONEY FROM WEALTHY OWNERS WHO TURNED A BLIND EYE. NOW THEYRE ABOUT TO GET THEIR ASSES HANDED TO THEM TOO. CANT WAIT TO SEE GUYS LIKE MARTY ENGGLE RUNNING FOR COVER.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Parked on January 18, 2023, 07:35:36 AM
Hope you are right….
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: The Exporter on January 18, 2023, 09:37:25 AM
I DONT AGREE. WHY DID THE INVESTIGATE THE TRAINERS THEN? I'M TELLING YOU, THE PUBLIC IS TIRED OF BEING JACKED OVER SO THE FED'S HAD TO STEP IN AND DO SOMETHING. AND JUST SO YOU KNOW, THERE ARE PLENTY OF OWNER/TRAINERS AS WELL AS OWNERS SUPPLYING THE GO GO JUICE AND LAYING OFF THE FEDS RADAR. BELIEVE ME, IF AND WHEN THEY START WITH THE OWNERS YOU WILL SEE THE GAME DRY UP REAL FAST BECAUSE 95% OF THE TRAINERS ARE BUSTED AND COULDNT DO THE ILLEGAL SHIT WITHOUT THE OWNERS SUPPLYING THEM THE MONEY. YOU THINK SURICK, ALLARD AND DANE WERE SPENDING THEIR OWN MONEY ON THE RED ACID? FUCK NO. THEY GOT THE MONEY FROM WEALTHY OWNERS WHO TURNED A BLIND EYE. NOW THEYRE ABOUT TO GET THEIR ASSES HANDED TO THEM TOO. CANT WAIT TO SEE GUYS LIKE MARTY ENGGLE RUNNING FOR COVER.

 I respect your opinion and in a better world, who by far benefited from the criminal acts of the trainers should be held accountable . You ask why did they investigate the trainers then? Mainly because Gural had paid 5 Stars  a boatload to do a professional investigation that would interest the FEDS. Also, Jeffery's political influence is deep. The manpower, time and commitment needed to do the owners the same way would probably do little if anything along the lines of criminality. If the FBI can not get an indictment they will not investigate.
 It is the job of the states to police this game. I am sure the FBI will turn over many incriminating documents to the State and IRS. The state has not shown an interest in doing any of this since the para mutual tax was a revenue generator for state and local coffers .
 But, I sure hope they take your advice. It would be extremely entertaining to watch some of these guys squirm .

 
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Parked on January 18, 2023, 11:12:45 AM
The feds fear no one… the state commissions have have shown little desire to spend $$$ to prosecute even the worst offenders.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: ferdinand the bull on January 18, 2023, 11:38:31 AM
The feds fear no one… the state commissions have have shown little desire to spend $$$ to prosecute even the worst offenders.
Which state is quickest to turn a blind eye
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Harness racer on January 18, 2023, 02:02:10 PM
Delaware does nothing to known cheats and never question where people are getting these 6-figure amounts to purchase horses in their names.  Hard to say if they are the worst, but they don't do anything.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Parked on January 18, 2023, 05:27:42 PM
Which state is quickest to turn a blind eye
Probably a dead heat between Pa. and N.Y.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: LAW AND ORDER on January 18, 2023, 06:06:28 PM
I respect your opinion and in a better world, who by far benefited from the criminal acts of the trainers should be held accountable . You ask why did they investigate the trainers then? Mainly because Gural had paid 5 Stars  a boatload to do a professional investigation that would interest the FEDS. Also, Jeffery's political influence is deep. The manpower, time and commitment needed to do the owners the same way would probably do little if anything along the lines of criminality. If the FBI can not get an indictment they will not investigate.
 It is the job of the states to police this game. I am sure the FBI will turn over many incriminating documents to the State and IRS. The state has not shown an interest in doing any of this since the para mutual tax was a revenue generator for state and local coffers .
 But, I sure hope they take your advice. It would be extremely entertaining to watch some of these guys squirm .

 
I DISAGREE. ITS THE STATES JOB TO POLICE THE TRAINERS TOO, YET THE FEDS GOT INVOLVED AND DID THEIR JOB. ITS ONE STEP FURTHER TO TRACK THE TRAINERS SOUCE OF INCOME. 99.9% OF THE TIME CROOKED JUICING TRAINER = CROOKED JUICING OWNER. ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE! TRUST ME, JEFF GURAL MIGHT HAVE SOME POLITICAL INFLUENCE BUT THERE ISNT ANYONE WHO CAN INSTRUCT THE FBI TO CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER TO THAT DEGREE. IN FACT, I BELIEVE THIS LAST INVESTIGATION AND BOATLOAD OF INDICTMENTS WAS THE RESULT OF OVER 7 YEARS OF MONITORING AND WATCHING THE CHEATERS IN ACTION. JEFF GURAL ISNT THAT SMART BUDDY. THE OWNERS ARE GOING TO BE NEXT. JUST WATCH AND SEE. ONCE YOU MENTION IRS WATCH THEM ALL SQUIRM
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Yonkers1A on January 18, 2023, 07:09:04 PM
No chance, I agree with Exporter
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: mwins on January 19, 2023, 06:47:53 AM
Some guy works at a job for 20 years. One day he snaps, and goes postal. Walks into Walmart and starts shooting people.

In someone's scenario, the FEDS go after his employer because they paid him, and he used that money to buy guns and ammo.
Just like a trainer who used the money he earned to buy illegal drugs for the horses......Reall y?
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: LAW AND ORDER on January 19, 2023, 06:40:53 PM
Some guy works at a job for 20 years. One day he snaps, and goes postal. Walks into Walmart and starts shooting people.

In someone's scenario, the FEDS go after his employer because they paid him, and he used that money to buy guns and ammo.
Just like a trainer who used the money he earned to buy illegal drugs for the horses......Reall y?
WRONG! THE CHEATING OWNER BOUGHT THE MEDICATION AND TOLD THE BUSTED OUT TRAINER WHO COULDNT AFFORD TO BY BREAKFAST HOW AND WHEN TO USE THE DRUGS. GET WITH THE TIMES. 95% OF THESE PEOPLE WHO WERE INDICTED ARE FLAT  BROKE ON THEIR ASS POS. THE OWNERS ARE THE ONES WHO HAD THE MONEY, INVESTED THE MONEY, CALLED THE SHOTS, AND MADE THE MONEY. MANY OF THESE TRAINERS WHO ARE GOING TO JAIL DONT EVEN KNOW HOW TO PUT HOBBLES ON A HORSE.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: ferdinand the bull on January 19, 2023, 08:50:28 PM
Crawford farms were big supporters of Nicky , how's their poster boy now
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: segis on January 19, 2023, 09:27:56 PM
Hey. Law & Order. Gural paid for the investigation with the retired FBI investigation company. He gave them money to go after certain trainers for his personal interest.  Money talks. The FBI had nothing to do with it until Gural paid for it. He knew the commissions are a joke  along with all the Judges. Good for Gural but he is not a savior like people think.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: MikeAnt on January 20, 2023, 01:37:30 AM
Hey. Law & Order. Gural paid for the investigation with the retired FBI investigation company. He gave them money to go after certain trainers for his personal interest.  Money talks. The FBI had nothing to do with it until Gural paid for it. He knew the commissions are a joke  along with all the Judges. Good for Gural but he is not a savior like people think.
Don’t believe that for one minute. Burial doesn’t have enough money or influence to get to the FEDs. They act when things become so blatantly obvious that Stevie wonder could see what the hell was and still is happening.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: The Exporter on January 20, 2023, 06:00:13 AM
So, how did the FBI get involved in this investigation?
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: MCR on January 25, 2023, 05:51:15 PM
maybe some of the owners are in on it.  But some people are naive and dont think "their"  trainer is using that crap.  A smart trainer would never an owner what he does as far as that stuff goes.... JMO
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: MikeAnt on January 25, 2023, 10:50:57 PM
So, how did the FBI get involved in this investigation?
My guess would be millions of complaints from disgruntled gamblers, complaints of animal abuse, exploitation of illegal immigrants working as grooms, no compliance of rules and regulations at the state and local levels for starters. That might just be a reason for federal investigators to take a peek. You need more? 
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Brkn Headpole on January 26, 2023, 04:00:40 AM
So, how did the FBI get involved in this investigation?

They were investigating Navarros owners for money laundering and intercepted comms and led to the drug peddling.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: The Exporter on January 26, 2023, 06:03:57 AM
My guess would be millions of complaints from disgruntled gamblers, complaints of animal abuse, exploitation of illegal immigrants working as grooms, no compliance of rules and regulations at the state and local levels for starters. That might just be a reason for federal investigators to take a peek. You need more?
So, The FBI takes complaints from millions of gamblers? They investigate animal abuse? They also investigate immigration status and non compliance of rules? So how many employers got pinched for immigration compliance ? I have not seen any reports or documents that name gamblers or anyone as payees in the restitution. Have you?
 Gural hired 5 Stars back in 2015. That has been established.
 The other theory of."  They were investigating Navarros owners for money laundering and intercepted comms and led to the drug peddling", is interesting and may have been a contributing factor. But, the other stuff is pure speculation and quite lowbrow  for The FBI.
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: Brkn Headpole on January 26, 2023, 06:56:01 AM
Its not a theory. The same department investigating transnational crime also was looking into drug peds and misbranding bc there were using them to "get consistent wins" so to clean the money.

It started out w dirty Brazilian $$$ to $$$ with Gelfensteins farms ties to socalist Venezuelan govt.

https://paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/drug-company-sales-director-michael-kegley-pleads-guilty-in-horse-doping-scandal/

https://paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/florida-trainer-alfredo-lichoa-among-five-charged-by-feds-in-money-laundering-scheme/

https://www.paulickreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/federal-prosecutors-response-on-wire-taps.pdf

Title III “allows the government to offer evidence [at trial] of other
crimes when that evidence is obtained during the course of an investigation for an authorized
offense.” Rajaratnam, 2010 WL 4867402, at *3. The standard is whether the Government has
“obtain[ed] wiretap warrants in good faith—that is, in connection with an offense for which Title
III permits wiretapping—not as a subterfuge for gathering evidence of other offenses. If the
government does so, any other evidence it happens to intercept will have been intercepted
incidentally.” Id. (citing United States v. Levine, 690 F

Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: The Exporter on January 26, 2023, 09:02:59 AM
Good solid and factual information. My point is, Gural hired investigators in 2015. The information they gathered was turned over to the FBI. All these other actions were years later. So, is it not reasonable to say, it was Jeffery's investment and initiative that involved the FBI?
Title: Re: The FEDs to start to examine owners....
Post by: dinkadoo on January 26, 2023, 09:50:59 AM
Good solid and factual information. My point is, Gural hired investigators in 2015. The information they gathered was turned over to the FBI. All these other actions were years later. So, is it not reasonable to say, it was Jeffery's investment and initiative that involved the FBI?
Gural turned over information to the FBI --- did not know that.
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