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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Locked in with pace on May 22, 2022, 05:36:55 AM

Title: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Locked in with pace on May 22, 2022, 05:36:55 AM
WHEN DO THEY HAVE ENOUGH

ALWAYS THE LEADING MONEY-WINNING TRAINER BY A LANDSLIDE

BUILDS UP STABLES IN THE NEW UP AND COMING STATES

NOW BUYING THE TOP-PRICED HORSES ON THE INTERNET SALES SITES.

HAS MORE MULTIPLE ENTRIES THAN ANYONE IN OVERNIGHTS AND STAKES RACES

THEY OBVIOUSLY WORK HARD BUT THEY MAY NOT REALIZE THAT THEY ARE HURTING ANY GROWTH OF THE SPORT BIG TIME


Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Open bridle on May 22, 2022, 09:49:41 AM

ALWAYS THE LEADING MONEY-WINNING TRAINER BY A LANDSLIDE

BUILDS UP STABLES IN THE NEW UP AND COMING STATES

NOW BUYING THE TOP-PRICED HORSES ON THE INTERNET SALES SITES.

HAS MORE MULTIPLE ENTRIES THAN ANYONE IN OVERNIGHTS AND STAKES RACES

THEY OBVIOUSLY WORK HARD BUT THEY MAY NOT REALIZE THAT THEY ARE HURTING ANY GROWTH OF THE SPORT BIG TIME
[/quote] good discussion about this on prior  RUN FOR THE HILLS IN OHIO board
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Vince Treanor on May 22, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
The monopoly of horses is worse in harness than T-Bred racing. Although both are dying, Harness is closer to the grave and this is one of the reasons.
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: augustaandy on May 22, 2022, 12:14:54 PM
anyone can feel free to out-bid them at the yearling sales, buy at the on-line auctions and claim from them at the claim box

they have no monopoly on the sport

feel free to raise capital and beat them

last I heard they haven't won the Hambletonian
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Emperor Dapple on May 22, 2022, 12:32:51 PM
anyone can feel free to out-bid them at the yearling sales, buy at the on-line auctions and claim from them at the claim box

they have no monopoly on the sport

feel free to raise capital and beat them

last I heard they haven't won the Hambletonian

Correct.. it’s called capitalism boys and girls..
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Swandre on May 22, 2022, 12:50:10 PM
they spend the most

Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: chief yogi on May 22, 2022, 01:32:26 PM
yes people can claim off them and out bid then but...    we all know the positives get swept away from the huge outfits. tracks cant afford to not have their multiple entries.   then the little stables get screwed for the same positives.
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: LUCPARK on May 22, 2022, 01:49:38 PM
I don’t know

Can’t figure out what they are doing wrong

That’s bothering you guys they buy a lot of horses
80 to
90 percent of their babies don’t pan out  but  the  rest are really good or close to grand circuit material  every yr

They claim a lot and buy a lot of  over night horses  privately

And claim a lot

EVERYONE can do the same as they are doing

ITS NOT A BIG SECRET

All you ploppers can do the same


What’s the problem boys


NO MONEY  ngc3 ngc3 ngc3

Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Brown jug on May 22, 2022, 02:10:41 PM
true capitalism( god bless america)
its a free country
did mcdonalds give shit about mom and pop burger joints as they opened  stores across north america
i understand harness racing is a little different than fast food but the concept of capital flowing to where it gets a good roi is not
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Open bridle on May 22, 2022, 02:38:40 PM
Correct.. it’s called capitalism boys and girls..
That's right where the 1% own most the wealth.  Rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Sure sounds like the state of harness racing.
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Open bridle on May 22, 2022, 02:50:42 PM
I don’t know

Can’t figure out what they are doing wrong

That’s bothering you guys they buy a lot of horses
80 to
90 percent of their babies don’t pan out  but  the  rest are really good or close to grand circuit material  every yr

They claim a lot and buy a lot of  over night horses  privately

And claim a lot

EVERYONE can do the same as they are doing

ITS NOT A BIG SECRET

All you ploppers can do the same


What’s the problem boys


NO MONEY  ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
They definitely must know how to pick the yearlings. I have followed 15 of their 2020 downbytheseaside yearling picks. All but three are doing very well as 3 yo. Much higher percent return on their money than other stables. They are awful lucky or have some magic formula no one knows about.
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: augustaandy on May 22, 2022, 03:08:09 PM
They definitely must know how to pick the yearlings. I have followed 15 of their 2020 downbytheseaside yearling picks. All but three are doing very well as 3 yo. Much higher percent return on their money than other stables. They are awful lucky or have some magic formula no one knows about.


need luck on yearlings, Seaside yearlings so far have been better than other stallions

they have their share of yearlings that don't perform, everyone does

feel free to put your own people and money together, select a trainer, and out-do them, it's a free sport
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Kole Hanover on May 22, 2022, 04:31:41 PM


 The Stable has a ton of horses, spend a lot $$$ at sales etc

 Burkes aren't the only ones
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Brown jug on May 22, 2022, 04:40:55 PM
ummm kole
did you just compare the stable.ca to the burke brigade
please say that was not your intention
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Kole Hanover on May 22, 2022, 05:41:23 PM
ummm kole
did you just compare the stable.ca to the burke brigade
please say that was not your intention


 only saying they have a ton of stock & do not get near the results

 It isn't only Ron making the Burke machine spin

 
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Open bridle on May 22, 2022, 07:13:32 PM

need luck on yearlings, Seaside yearlings so far have been better than other stallions

they have their share of yearlings that don't perform, everyone does

feel free to put your own people and money together, select a trainer, and out-do them, it's a free sport
I do own a seaside. That why I kept track of all the seasides at each stable for the fun of it. Burke not only picked seasilk which was medium priced , but almost all his 15 or so except a few are still performing well. Whereas brown's stable had selected about 20  2020 seaside yearlings but hasn't had close to Burkes  success except for gulf shores and a few others. There are bunch load of other high priced seasides from other stables haven't done well either. There's got to be more than luck involved to be that successful at picking yearlings.
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Brown jug on May 22, 2022, 07:22:41 PM
got it kole
thank you for clarifying
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Babinga on May 22, 2022, 07:48:58 PM
last I heard they haven't won the Hambletonian

For completeness, ONLY because What the Hill was disqualified for interference causing Guardian Angel AS to break in 2017.  Perfect Spirit was declared the winner.

I expect Burke will get his Hambo before he retires.
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: augustaandy on May 22, 2022, 10:17:40 PM
There's got to be more than luck involved to be that successful at picking yearlings.

there's so many high priced yearlings that don't come close to earning their yearling price tags, there were 2 trotting yearlings that cost over a million (check for their pictures on milk cartons in your fridge), and numerous recent yearling tax losses

there's a lot of luck involved

Ron works hard and they have a great operation but they are disciplined buyers at the yearling auctions, you can always outbid them but it's difficult to outwork them!
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: horses first on May 22, 2022, 11:23:09 PM
Burke found the keys to the car many years ago be big enough and classify the horses correctly. Get as many open horses and enter across the state lines at multiple tracks. Buy yearlings with 3 other partners have 25% ownership on everything. Be too big to fail and the powers to be will let you roll on. On those yearlings you get a couple that are champions that get syndicated and gets you years of extra buying power that 95% of other trainers can't get you. Is it right it's up for debate but nobody else has found those keys

Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Harness racer on May 23, 2022, 07:17:43 AM
No one is arguing that this is capitalism at it's finest.  The point was that not all capitalism is good for everything.  They are driving owners out of the business and it's not good for the overall well being of racing.  This being said, you have the option to join them, beat them or walk away.  tmbz1
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: seen2much on May 23, 2022, 07:22:44 AM
Lou Pena was on his way to 100 horses & was stopped. No positives for Lou & he pointed that out. Burke has had many positives & was allowed to keep expanding.
Allard had a big stable & got arrested. Why are there different rules for Burke?
Dowse & many others are ridiculous at Yonkers Raceway. I think the cheating is as bad or worse 2 years after the arrests.
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Harness racer on May 23, 2022, 07:53:41 AM
Lou Pena was on his way to 100 horses & was stopped. No positives for Lou & he pointed that out. Burke has had many positives & was allowed to keep expanding.
Allard had a big stable & got arrested. Why are there different rules for Burke?
Dowse & many others are ridiculous at Yonkers Raceway. I think the cheating is as bad or worse 2 years after the arrests.

Dowse and Spacc are just rubbing in the publics face.  Much like Lou used to do.  Burke does not train anywhere near the percentage of this eras biggest juicers.  Not saying Burke doesn't have his own magic potions, but he uses them in the right spots.  He flies under the radar and clearly doesn't brag about what he uses like these other morons.
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: COUNSELOR on May 24, 2022, 04:45:57 PM
THE ISSUE HERE IS NOT THE INVESTORS BUYING THE HORSES BUT THE TRACKS AND THE COMMISSIONS THAT LET MULTIPLE ENTRIES IN EVEN OVER NIGHT RACES.  NO FOOL WOULD BET THESE RACES AS THE TRAINERS AND OWNERS DEFINITELY KNOW WHO CAN AND WHO CANNOT WIN THESE RACES.  THEREFORE, BLAME THE INDUSTRY AGAIN FOR THE FAILURE TO MANAGE AND CONTROL THE SPORT.

ANYONE CAN BUY OR SELL HORSES BUT TO HAVE 5 IN A RACE BY A TRAINER IS A JOKE AND DEFINITELY HURTS THE SPORT.   AGAIN, THIS IS NOT A NEGATIVE TO THE INVESTORS WHO BUY THE HORSES BUT THE TRACKS AND COMMISSION WHO LET THEM RACE UNCOUPLED AS SEPARATE BETTING INTEREST.  HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THAT IN THE OLD DAYS WHEN RACING WAS GOING GREAT?  I THINK NOT.

DIFFERENT SPORT IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT A SPORT.  PAST THE POINT OF SALVATION TODAY AS WE SEE  IT.
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: dinkadoo on May 25, 2022, 09:42:09 AM
WHEN DO THEY HAVE ENOUGH


A rare good topic that has not turned into men blowing other men.

Question --- when do they have enough ?

If you took a poll, I would think that most believe that in the future, which could 2,3,5,10 years that decoupling is going to happen. When it does, everything crashes. Purses, breeding industry, and ability to make money although still most do not.

Burke is gonna get all he can, continue to get all he can, because there may be a point there will not be anything to get. I see drivers like Merriman. Love him or hate him. If he's smart he has two banks stashed with cash from all the drives and wins he has had.... He's one bad accident or a industry that could falter from having his career taken away..
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: The Exporter on May 25, 2022, 11:47:18 AM
You may be right, Dink. I see the greatest threat to racing is the state. For the past 2 years, state coffers have been filled with Federal grants. I see many states spending this money in any way they can. Most have been filling their educational budgets with one shots from the fed.
 So, in the next two years, how will they be able to continue this level of spending? Where will the money come from? Not the Feds. Raising taxes in a down turn economy with double digit inflation is political suicide.
 Decoupling will have greater support by both parties in the near future. Not to mention the changing cultural powers. All in all, racing better start making better use of the slot money real soon. 
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Lance on May 25, 2022, 03:18:28 PM
A rare good topic that has not turned into men blowing other men.



 76za.dcg 76za.dcg
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Superfecta on May 25, 2022, 08:49:26 PM
Racing was popular many years ago. It isn't anymore. No reason to just piss away money to a bunch of cheating degenerates to keep it going. Blockbuster was popular and had a nice run too. Race without the welfare money.
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: augustaandy on May 26, 2022, 02:10:07 PM
Racing was popular many years ago. It isn't anymore. No reason to just piss away money to a bunch of cheating degenerates to keep it going. Blockbuster was popular and had a nice run too. Race without the welfare money.


without the slot stipend most people couldn't afford to race
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: Superfecta on May 26, 2022, 03:57:45 PM

without the slot stipend most people couldn't afford to race

That’s just too bad. Enough with the handouts.
Title: Re: BURKE/WEAVER ACTUALLY HURTING THE SPORT
Post by: seriously on May 26, 2022, 08:14:04 PM
The static nature of the humans involved in this "sport" is arguably the greatest reason it is failing.  New blood is needed, and there just never is any.  Same people, same gene pools.

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