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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: LUCPARK on May 08, 2022, 08:52:02 AM

Title: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: LUCPARK on May 08, 2022, 08:52:02 AM
WHATS FAIR THESE DAYS.

GAS PRICES UP,,FEED SCARCE,,HELP SHORTAGE..

I HEAR 100 A DAY BEING CHARGED BY SOME TRAINERS OUT EAST

AND OHIO,,

WITHOUT MUCH ON THE RESULTS SIDE  ngc3 ngc3



Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: Open bridle on May 08, 2022, 09:10:44 AM
Only the deepest pockets will survive if it continues.
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: Locked in with pace on May 08, 2022, 09:38:55 AM
I'M CONFUSED HERE. THE OWNERS PAY FOR THE INCREASED TRUCKING COSTS. THEY ARE ABSORBING THE INCREASE HERE. THE PURSES ARE AT THEIR HIGHEST AT MOST TRACKS, AND THE TRAINER GETS 5%. WITH LESS HELP, THE TRAINER HAS LESS SALARY TO PAY. AND WITH LESS HELP, MORE OF THE LITTLE THINGS ARE PROBABLY NOT GETTING DONE.

THE DEEP POCKET OWNERS AND TRAINERS WILL BE JUST FINE AND MORE AND MORE OWNERS WILL GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS. lOOKS LIKE WE ARE SEEING AN ONGOING BAD TREND.
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: Pacingqueen on May 08, 2022, 10:05:33 AM
WHATS FAIR THESE DAYS.

GAS PRICES UP,,FEED SCARCE,,HELP SHORTAGE..

I HEAR 100 A DAY BEING CHARGED BY SOME TRAINERS OUT EAST

AND OHIO,,

WITHOUT MUCH ON THE RESULTS SIDE  ngc3 ngc3

One of the most expensive is your trainer Irv. With 0 results on the east coast. You recoup some at Hoosier Park but his barn has run in the negative every year for the past 20 years.
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: Harness racer on May 08, 2022, 10:41:05 AM
Is it even possible to make money with most overnight horses?  Do the math; margins are very thin just to break even.  Will lose owners fast if that continues.
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: LUCPARK on May 08, 2022, 11:38:25 AM
Is it even possible to make money with most overnight horses?  Do the math; margins are very thin just to break even.  Will lose owners fast if that continues.

overnights are almost impossible to make a buck

un less your the trainer owner..

babies 3 and 4 yr olds are the only possible way thru..

back to TOPIC..

I CANT SEE A 100 A DAY AND 300 bucks for  SHIPPING FROM  JERSEY FARM TO  YONKERS AS BEING FAIR ...



Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: Open bridle on May 08, 2022, 12:03:21 PM
overnights are almost impossible to make a buck

un less your the trainer owner..

babies 3 and 4 yr olds are the only possible way thru..

back to TOPIC..

I CANT SEE A 100 A DAY AND 300 bucks for  SHIPPING FROM  JERSEY FARM TO  YONKERS AS BEING FAIR ...
I think good  trainers just try to breakeven on their shipping cost whereas other try to make an extra buck. Those are the ones you want to avoid. My trainer hauls with a diesel engine and diesel prices are around $6.50/ga on the east coast.
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: horses first on May 08, 2022, 01:54:59 PM
I'M CONFUSED HERE. THE OWNERS PAY FOR THE INCREASED TRUCKING COSTS. THEY ARE ABSORBING THE INCREASE HERE. THE PURSES ARE AT THEIR HIGHEST AT MOST TRACKS, AND THE TRAINER GETS 5%. WITH LESS HELP, THE TRAINER HAS LESS SALARY TO PAY. AND WITH LESS HELP, MORE OF THE LITTLE THINGS ARE PROBABLY NOT GETTING DONE.

THE DEEP POCKET OWNERS AND TRAINERS WILL BE JUST FINE AND MORE AND MORE OWNERS WILL GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS. lOOKS LIKE WE ARE SEEING AN ONGOING BAD TREND.

Purses at there highest? I think Yonkers use to be a leader and those purses look much lower than past years and they don't card as many races. I don't follow enough track to track but the purses out east might higher but come with higher bills and more expensive vets. Midwest purses don't seem that high but cost come a little cheaper. But when you put in 2021 inflation with higher 2022 inflation those purses in reality are smaller and smaller. This will be the path forward for another few years at least as inflation will not get back to that 2% of normal target. Losing money is usually the norm you will just be losing more of it know because of higher prices. Top guys out east were $75 nearly a decade ago if they are 100 now well its because the owner I suppose can afford it. But that doesn't last forever if results aren't there.
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: Open bridle on May 08, 2022, 03:07:49 PM
You only have a real chance of a profit on the younger ones. But you better be real lucky and have a really really good one. Upfront yearling cost combined with all the other expenses puts you way in the hole before you even start. Purses have increased but so have the competition especially going against the large stables. It's not an easy sport to stay in very long if your an individual owner. Now if your a deep pocket owner it becomes a great write off with the depreciation schedule.
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: horses first on May 08, 2022, 03:23:19 PM
You only have a real chance of a profit on the younger ones. But you better be real lucky and have a really really good one. Upfront yearling cost combined with all the other expenses puts you way in the hole before you even start. Purses have increased but so have the competition especially going against the large stables. It's not an easy sport to stay in very long if your an individual owner. Now if your a deep pocket owner it becomes a great write off with the depreciation schedule.

Yes Open Birdle if you have a great day job, inherited a lot of money, or got lucky with one of your first yearling buys and playing with house money it is the only way too break in on babies. The game on the top end is only tougher because the deep pocketed owners are getting together and buying pieces of top breed horses and spreading further with those top trainers. In the end a numbers game once that last bid on the hip purchase is gone it is a running tab for 10 months. If the horse gets turned out or gets hurt then another decision to keep hold and rehab. The tab keeps running.

In the end a losing prop for me but had some really good horses and fun along the way. I figured with my job it wrote down my income where less to the government for wasteful spending as it employed a trainer and all his help. Now don't miss a second of being in the game have two final pieces of Greenshoe colts to sell this year and next. Sold the mare for a nice price last winter and all the headaches are over..
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: jupiter on May 08, 2022, 03:58:57 PM
Don't forget the tolls, they're a killer and it doesn't matter NY, Pa, NJ.  The GWB 95.00, Water Gap Bridge 25.00, there isn't any profit in shipping anymore. Every extra horse ya give a groom ya gotta pay them for it, they aren't free. The days of making a nice living training a small stable (15 to 20 horses) without using a large chunk of your trainer % are long gone. The margins aren't there and never will be. Purses don't get a COLA.
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: 3widetooearly on May 08, 2022, 04:56:22 PM
It’s pretty simple…. Vote Republican. Democrats no good. Biden is a disaster!
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: harnessplop on May 10, 2022, 08:56:13 AM
Biden America is great like the Himalayas.  What did he say
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: dinkadoo on May 11, 2022, 07:55:59 AM
Is it even possible to make money with most overnight horses?  Do the math; margins are very thin just to break even.  Will lose owners fast if that continues.
Figure with a decent trainer who is paying a good amount... Your condition horse needs to make $60k as a starting point to break even.
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: The Exporter on May 11, 2022, 11:22:06 AM
You are probably right or close to it with that $60k figure, Dink. That is a net $54K going to the owner. At $4k a month plus equipment and some other expenses, no problem spending that $54,000.
 So if you purchase a yearling to train down and make eligible to Sire Stakes and some Grand Circuit events, your investment in training and stake payments could easily exceed $50,000. What is the % of 2 year old colts or fillies that make $50K?   
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: horses first on May 11, 2022, 04:08:09 PM
60k a month and it's laughable that people say purses are up? When the prices go up on everything those prices are not on par anymore and they actually haven't been on par with inflation for decades. It will be interesting by the time we get to the sales on what kind of enthusiasm with dollar spent. It may not be where the markets are but by the time consumers say we had enough paid higher prices for everything. Then you have an issue with the possibility of recession once you get there you have states that have racinos or government subsidy that will be looking for revenue since most states can't build revenue with gambling or marijuana. Inflation is a killer and once it breaks you have slowed growth enough into a recession or stagflation. Then come the job losses. At some point the 100 a day will turn back to 50 a day looking to get owners back that get flushed out.
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: PIGLAND on May 11, 2022, 06:43:21 PM
the bills seem to go way up if your horse wins
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: horses first on May 12, 2022, 12:39:08 AM
PA sire money has been going down yearly but the three year old trot fillies today raced for total of 135k. Anyone that follows is that a much lower total than past years?
Title: Re: DAILY RATES...75$ A DAY..60 90 100 ?
Post by: dinkadoo on May 12, 2022, 07:22:30 AM
there's a solution.  fractional ownership  ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
Don't knock the factional ownership -- I own two hoof nails of 8 different thoroughbreds....

Total cost -- $704    Return about $110     Bills = $0     

Possiblity of turning a profit -- about the same as paying bills on a standardbred -- about 0
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