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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Here they come on March 14, 2020, 12:02:29 PM

Title: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Here they come on March 14, 2020, 12:02:29 PM
Since most people on this site think anyone whoís making money in this sport is cheating, Iím dying to know the names of the trainers who you think are making money consistently who you think donít cheat.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: TTitans1 on March 14, 2020, 12:03:29 PM
This should be worth a few laughs!
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Adamo on March 14, 2020, 12:19:04 PM
Since most people on this site think anyone whoís making money in this sport is cheating, Iím dying to know the names of the trainers who you think are making money consistently who you think donít cheat.

Ake Svanstedt
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: TTitans1 on March 14, 2020, 12:27:17 PM
Yea his trotters go in 49 clean as a whistle!
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: joemomma on March 14, 2020, 12:36:53 PM
Burke
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: helpplease on March 14, 2020, 12:37:49 PM
Ake Svanstedt

https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=3263179
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Rabbi Of Racing on March 14, 2020, 12:50:59 PM
not possible for a trainer to do well without cheating
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: TTitans1 on March 14, 2020, 12:58:52 PM
Burke

 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Harness Stats on March 14, 2020, 01:06:52 PM
I’m dying to know the names of the trainers who you think are making money consistently who you think don’t cheat.

Clint Galbraith Ö. Oh wait .. that was 40 years ago
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Here they come on March 14, 2020, 01:08:00 PM
Rabbi just made my point. Thatís the mentality of
Almost everyone on this site. If your doing well your
cheating. No one can make money in harness racing
Whoís not a criminal. I just think most people are jealous
of the ones who do and assume and accuse
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: TTitans1 on March 14, 2020, 01:14:11 PM
Well you are a fucking idiot then! Someone racing clean isn`t beating someone who isn`t. The commissions letting the big trainers off so many times made everyone think they had to join them or get out of the game. Until now, most of them risked a slap on the wrist or a fine. This might change things but it`s probably too late.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Harness Stats on March 14, 2020, 01:30:12 PM
Personally I think Croghan is perhaps the cleanest of the "successful" trainers but that's jmo

Below is the current list of highest earning trainers for this year as shown by USTA
I have put them in order or earnings highest at the top. 

This list will contain a lot of the suspects .. might be time for some of those on this list to try to prove innocence as they will be presumed guilty

Burke, Ronald J "Ron"
Allard, Rene M
Harris , Andrew S
Banca, Richard J
Moreau , Richard
Auciello , Carmen E
Surick, Nick
Di Domenico, Scott D
King Jr, James T "Jim"
Morgan Jr, Virgil V
Bongiorno, Jennifer L
Columbo, Joseph D
Rhoades, William
Davis, Dylan P
Cullipher, Jeffrey W "Jeff"
Redder, Peter A
Loney, C B "C Brian"
Baillargeon, Benoit O
Bucci, Ricky A
Betts, Scott R
Godinez, Jose L
Givens, Melvin W "Wayne"
George, Scott T "Tyler"
Schillaci, Samuel J "Sam"
Height, Christopher J "Chris"
Simpson, Dirk
Tarantino, Tracy
Hundertpfund Jr, Joseph C
Green, Joshua L "Josh"
Ford, Mark S
Alexander, Travis M
DeVita, Nicholas F
Norman, Richard J "R. Nifty"
Lorentzon, Anette K
Gillis , Jeffrey R
Bendis, Randall B "Randy"
Kauffman, Kayne K
Fellows, Robert D
Hitchcock, Michael G
Hoerdt, Kelly O
Galliers, Brady E
Hudson, Lance H
Blumenfeld, Paul
Hall, Michael P
Roegner Jessica L
Palone, Michael A
Cassar, Darran F
Connor Jr, Charles E "Chuck"
Parker, Norm D
Smith, Perry W
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Here they come on March 14, 2020, 01:46:08 PM
no titans your the idiot! Im talking clean vs clean. there's just some trainers who are better. not because there cheating. but the majority of people think if there successful they have to be cheating.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Harness Stats on March 14, 2020, 02:04:23 PM
While on the subject of innuendo, the shots on social media trying to tie Rene Allard into this mess were totally unnecessary. To be perfectly frank, his eight horses at Pocono were scratched because the training facility was shut down. No one could come or go. Therefore, there were many horses that couldn’t get to the track. It really bothers me the amount of negativity there is in our sport and how quickly we jump the gun and pronounce evil.........Just ask the Guru

Social Media was correct. You should at least mention that the "training facility" was Banca's.  Not anything to do with Pocono... and the Guru starts shit too.  He has ruined lives with his column.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: okdfool on March 14, 2020, 02:13:03 PM
While on the subject of innuendo, the shots on social media trying to tie Rene Allard into this mess were totally unnecessary. To be perfectly frank, his eight horses at Pocono were scratched because the training facility was shut down. No one could come or go. Therefore, there were many horses that couldnít get to the track. It really bothers me the amount of negativity there is in our sport and how quickly we jump the gun and pronounce evil.........Just ask the Guru

Are you saying he is not involved in this mess?
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Emperor Dapple on March 14, 2020, 02:24:27 PM
While on the subject of innuendo, the shots on social media trying to tie Rene Allard into this mess were totally unnecessary. To be perfectly frank, his eight horses at Pocono were scratched because the training facility was shut down. No one could come or go. Therefore, there were many horses that couldnít get to the track. It really bothers me the amount of negativity there is in our sport and how quickly we jump the gun and pronounce evil.........Just ask the Guru

Friend, you may have missed the memo but there is a Federal Indictment against Mr Allard.. This isnít social media nonsense.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Fatboy on March 14, 2020, 02:24:56 PM
Ake Svanstedt

ngc3
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Harness Stats on March 14, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
There is a list of current successful trainers based on 2020 earnings on page 1 of this thread.
 
For anyone who truly wants to give a good response to the topic here tell us who you think are the cleanest ones from that list
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: TTitans1 on March 14, 2020, 02:39:57 PM
No, you`re the idiot. What clean trainers are you referring to? Which clean trainers can you compare to eachother? Who do you know that`s clean and making money in this game?
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Stan durbread on March 14, 2020, 02:53:28 PM
There are plenty of clean trainers in racing. Unfortunately not too many know there names because the media only hypes super high percentage guys
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Jazzman on March 14, 2020, 02:56:48 PM
clean trainers all dead or out f buissness
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Here they come on March 14, 2020, 04:26:31 PM
According to you there arenít any, so no need to name any.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Here they come on March 14, 2020, 04:28:23 PM
Your mentality is if any team or individual consistently defeats another they are cheaters. Your logic titan is ridiculous. Like I said. Idiotic
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: half round full swedge on March 14, 2020, 04:31:06 PM
All starved to death
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Here they come on March 14, 2020, 04:33:56 PM
Thereís not one trainer that anyone can name that someone will say isnít a cheat, so naming any is a waste of time. Too many narrow minded individuals on this forum.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: TTitans1 on March 14, 2020, 04:45:21 PM
According to you there arenít any, so no need to name any.

You are the fuckhead running your mouth but you can`t name one! Not one making money anyway. Fuck you, I raced horses in about 10 states for 35 years and know most of these guys. You aren`t going to tell me any different.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Carnival People on March 14, 2020, 04:49:33 PM
Rabbi just made my point. Thatís the mentality of
Almost everyone on this site. If your doing well your
cheating. No one can make money in harness racing
Whoís not a criminal. I just think most people are jealous
of the ones who do and assume and accuse

This is a very complicated situation because the real hay and oats trainers fall or fell by the wayside.  Everyone likes to have a little edge, but your truly gifted horsemen are gone.  They have been replaced by monsters.  It started with the likes of Robinson and Gelrod etc.  It would take freak of nature horses for an all-natural trainer to win races to such an extent that he would win enough to attract any attention.  It's not jealousy.  It's frustration.  What if you worked all day with water and horse manure and you get yourself a nice decent lawn. But your neighbor used specially designed and dangerous chemicals for every inch of his lawn and it was a lush green gorgeous weed free lawn that everyone loved to look at.  How would you feel?   
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Here they come on March 14, 2020, 05:39:52 PM
Agree carnival, not everyone does things the same way though. Doesnít mean there a chemist or juicing. Some horseman are simply gonna be better than others.  Iím glad weíre cleaning house with these bad apples. Hope they get some more. Iím tired of these guys taking money out of my pocket. Just want a level playing field
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Curious Fan on March 14, 2020, 05:55:53 PM
Speaking of Gelrod, how many bottles of cobalt was he selling while hooked up with Bryce's Brotherlaw Sam D.   Answer: 1000's and yet Bryce never once caught Gelrod passing off brown paper bag across the street from NJ training centers.  Anyway according to Jeff there were only 2 people that supplied the entire industry and the business is now officially clean.   New Jeff can eradicate the Corona Virus and save the world.  Jeff for president!
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: hoosierboy on March 14, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
They (we) all cheat to some extent!
Agree totally
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: HayBurner on March 14, 2020, 10:27:42 PM
Define "successful". If you are looking for a trainer that bats .500 you will not find one.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Freedom at Last on March 14, 2020, 10:58:01 PM
Ake Svanstedt
I guess shocking your horses doesnít count??  ngc3 ngc3
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: horses first on March 14, 2020, 11:36:25 PM
There have been two indictments with Allard and Surick totalling 13 dead horses because of the shit they gave them. Someone has a beef about social media and jumping the gun. Whatever. These fucks will get some plea deal but not before jail time, fines, and being barred for life training a horse.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: TTitans1 on March 15, 2020, 07:36:18 AM
Not true. I know many trainers that literally race on hay and oats and actually do well. Sure, if they blew their heads off, they may be even better but they race clean. FACT!
[/quote\\

Again, WHO???? Another one who knows a bunch but can`t name one!
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: the master on March 15, 2020, 09:47:24 AM
As one of the more astute plopsters alluded to, you have to clearly define exactly what cheating is! States furnish extensive lists of therapeutic drugs with acceptable withdrawal times! Are you a cheater if you use this information to try and remain competitive? I say no!  Furthermore, is a trainer a crook if he administers himself because his vet, or any vet is unavailable?  Once again, I don't think so!  Are you a thief if you dispense illegal pain killers or blood builders or worse yet, unknown substances that could harm or possibly kill! I wouldn't feel that I have to answer that! All you holier than thou people out there that feel differently should be aware that despite the extensive list of indictments, there are honest, caring trainers out there who treat their horses like royalty! Horses are among the most noble of animals on the planet they generally take what people dish out and only ask to be fed and cared for! And by the way, honest trainers do win races and always pay their bills using the tools that are available, mainly horsemanship and classification!
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: C FAUROT JR on March 15, 2020, 10:08:25 AM
THAT'S RIGHT, WE NEED TO CLEAN THIS SPORT UP AND GET RID OF THE CHEAT'S. SOONER THE BETTER  ngc3
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: TTitans1 on March 15, 2020, 10:13:10 AM
I was in the business for 35 years and know the difference between the theraputic drugs and the blood builders, steroids, painkillers, etc. that are over the line. Yea, there are trainers who just use the theraputics like dex, bute, banamine, robaxin, etc. but they aren`t beating the guys using the next big thing. I went through the shake years and most all tried it. I went through the EPO years and most that could get there hands on it tried it. The honest guys are gone! Most of the people who know these guys if they are connected tried this shit as well. They were dealing it by the sounds of the recordings. There is going to be a lot more on the list if this is a complete investigation and it certainly looks that way. I am definitely not holier than thou, just speaking the truth. I raced at about 10-15 tracks in my day and met a lot of people in the game. The reason most horsemen turn a blind eye or worse yet stand up and protect the guys with the edge is because you want the edge yourself. It`s been going on forever. The worst thing that happened to racing was the increase in purses because all it did was allow the big players to come up with bigger chemistry sets and push the honest guys out. If they didn`t get the slots, the business would have been dead long ago. Maybe it`s finally time to bury it for good. This is one group that was racing in both standardbred and the runners using this shit and no + tests! How many other big name guys are doing the same? Even the vets all come up with recipes that they give to their customers. Quit with your "holier than thou" bullshit and the good honest trainer crap because you are full of shit!
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: cr dawg on March 15, 2020, 10:26:50 AM
Fellows had a good 2 year old die in training, on the track at Mohawk I think? What was his name, Keystone something??? Anyways, is a 2year old having a heart attack commonl?
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: okdfool on March 15, 2020, 11:44:05 AM
Fellows had a good 2 year old die in training, on the track at Mohawk I think? What was his name, Keystone something??? Anyways, is a 2year old having a heart attack commonl?

Heart defects in 2 yr olds is not uncommin, it happens...
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Freedom at Last on March 15, 2020, 11:52:29 AM
That's right Dickhead. I do know a bunch of honest horsemen and because they race clean, they have earned the right to privacy unlike the cheating POS who forfeited anonymity by breaking the law. Apparently you don't know any because you were or are a cheating POS who surrounded himself with cheating POS. BLOW ME DOUCHE BAG
[/quote]
I would think you would be helping them out and not hurting them by giving their name.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Nostrathomas on March 15, 2020, 12:53:20 PM
Agree carnival, not everyone does things the same way though. Doesnít mean there a chemist or juicing. Some horseman are simply gonna be better than others.  Iím glad weíre cleaning house with these bad apples. Hope they get some more. Iím tired of these guys taking money out of my pocket. Just want a level playing field
It's true, some clean horseman are better than other clean horseman, but given any group of say, 10 totally clean trainers of varying ability that we'll say are from slightly below average, to very good, the differences in performance would still be moderate. Assuming all use good quality feed and hay, competent farriers, and good honest vets, and all have programs of 4 to 5 miles of jogging a day, with a training mile mid week, it is mathematically impossible for any one of these hypothetical trainers to improve upon any other, by more than one second, at the most.
On a totally level playing field, the "good" trainers would bat around .290, and the less talented ones would range from .220 to .250. That's what an honest racetrack leader board should look like, because devoid of drugs, it becomes all about the natural ability of the horse. The trainer's influence in a clean game would be 10-15 percent of the equation, at most.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: the master on March 15, 2020, 01:07:12 PM
I was in the business for 35 years and know the difference between the theraputic drugs and the blood builders, steroids, painkillers, etc. that are over the line. Yea, there are trainers who just use the theraputics like dex, bute, banamine, robaxin, etc. but they aren`t beating the guys using the next big thing. I went through the shake years and most all tried it. I went through the EPO years and most that could get there hands on it tried it. The honest guys are gone! Most of the people who know these guys if they are connected tried this shit as well. They were dealing it by the sounds of the recordings. There is going to be a lot more on the list if this is a complete investigation and it certainly looks that way. I am definitely not holier than thou, just speaking the truth. I raced at about 10-15 tracks in my day and met a lot of people in the game. The reason most horsemen turn a blind eye or worse yet stand up and protect the guys with the edge is because you want the edge yourself. It`s been going on forever. The worst thing that happened to racing was the increase in purses because all it did was allow the big players to come up with bigger chemistry sets and push the honest guys out. If they didn`t get the slots, the business would have been dead long ago. Maybe it`s finally time to bury it for good. This is one group that was racing in both standardbred and the runners using this shit and no + tests! How many other big name guys are doing the same? Even the vets all come up with recipes that they give to their customers. Quit with your "holier than thou" bullshit and the good honest trainer crap because you are full of shit!
         I can see what kind of trainer you must have been!  10,000 reasons why your horses couldn't function rather than looking in the mirror!  Always everyone else's fault!  You think I'm full of shit because that's all you know!
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Here they come on March 15, 2020, 01:51:49 PM
Agree nostrathomas, but also not just the trainer. Some farriers better than others, some vets are better than others. If you have a trainer who has a better overall team, that could what separates them from the others. You mentioned 1 second better. Thatís 5 lengths. 👍
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Village Idiot on March 15, 2020, 02:14:36 PM
Jim Mullinex (trainer of A Rock-n-Roll Dance)
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: The Exporter on March 15, 2020, 06:48:47 PM
It's true, some clean horseman are better than other clean horseman, but given any group of say, 10 totally clean trainers of varying ability that we'll say are from slightly below average, to very good, the differences in performance would still be moderate. Assuming all use good quality feed and hay, competent farriers, and good honest vets, and all have programs of 4 to 5 miles of jogging a day, with a training mile mid week, it is mathematically impossible for any one of these hypothetical trainers to improve upon any other, by more than one second, at the most.
On a totally level playing field, the "good" trainers would bat around .290, and the less talented ones would range from .220 to .250. That's what an honest racetrack leader board should look like, because devoid of drugs, it becomes all about the natural ability of the horse. The trainer's influence in a clean game would be 10-15 percent of the equation, at most.
The way condition races are written, it would support your theory.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: cr dawg on March 15, 2020, 10:54:08 PM
Heart defects in 2 yr olds is not uncommin, it happens...
Thanks Rob ngc3
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: VicD on March 28, 2020, 07:57:31 AM
Someone told me Lou Pena was clean, I can't remember who..
Oh wait, it was Lou Pena...
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Superfecta on March 28, 2020, 10:54:40 AM
Someone told me Lou Pena was clean, I can't remember who..
Oh wait, it was Lou Pena...

0 Positives.  ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: She Dont Know on March 28, 2020, 02:40:06 PM
Dan Noble
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: shotgunner on March 28, 2020, 03:05:03 PM
It's true, some clean horseman are better than other clean horseman, but given any group of say, 10 totally clean trainers of varying ability that we'll say are from slightly below average, to very good, the differences in performance would still be moderate. Assuming all use good quality feed and hay, competent farriers, and good honest vets, and all have programs of 4 to 5 miles of jogging a day, with a training mile mid week, it is mathematically impossible for any one of these hypothetical trainers to improve upon any other, by more than one second, at the most.
On a totally level playing field, the "good" trainers would bat around .290, and the less talented ones would range from .220 to .250. That's what an honest racetrack leader board should look like, because devoid of drugs, it becomes all about the natural ability of the horse. The trainer's influence in a clean game would be 10-15 percent of the equation, at most.
So good trainers would roughly win at a rate that would be similar to pure random? With no consideration to classification, purchasing power, and drivers services? It's a Pareto distribution, numbers won't change much even if you eliminated all cheating.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: battleground on March 28, 2020, 03:37:10 PM
They all give alittle something XTRA when they need cash. FACT
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: battleground on March 28, 2020, 10:56:25 PM
There was a grey gelding named FOLGER who was juiced a few times and won.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Dingus on March 28, 2020, 11:13:57 PM
Dan Noble

Surely, you jest.
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: SportsmansP5/8 on March 28, 2020, 11:55:21 PM
I have a question if the driver/jockey who is employed by a trainer for first call services an there knowingly driving juiced up animals are they as guilty as the trainerís they drive for???????
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: NJ The best on March 29, 2020, 12:04:28 AM
Paul Jessop been clean for 10 years doesnít win . Was dirtY many years ago as well as his father never lost . In Canada Yves Filion clean wins rarely only when he breeds a monster

Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Crash on March 29, 2020, 06:27:49 PM
Guess you donít know them that well...
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Gasman401 on March 30, 2020, 04:06:53 PM
Is equipoise cheating?
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Rabbi Of Racing on March 30, 2020, 04:07:33 PM
NO
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Fatboy on March 30, 2020, 04:16:23 PM
NO

ANABOLIC STEROID
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: shotgunner on March 30, 2020, 04:30:01 PM
Dan Noble
LOL
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Fatboy on March 30, 2020, 04:31:16 PM
Is equipoise cheating?

ABSOLUTLY
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Gasman401 on March 30, 2020, 04:46:27 PM
ABSOLUTLY

Then everybody in the last 40 years who enjoyed success  was a cheat then
Title: Re: Successfull trainers who donít cheat
Post by: Fatboy on March 30, 2020, 04:54:23 PM
Then everybody in the last 40 years who enjoyed success  was a cheat then

  Many guys get a positive for Bolenone, because it has been banned since 1970's  used alot to bulk up stock,, having a half life of around 12 days...this is where guys get in trouble.  Use a banned substance and you are YES cheating.
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