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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: swoodall on April 14, 2019, 04:13:34 AM
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CULLEN,TRAVIS A
ON - FAILING TO SET A PACE COMPARABLE TO CLASS
Commission Rule Number : 22.05.01 K
Date Issued : 08-APR-2019
Total Due : 200.00
Violation Occurred : Race 5 at WOODBINE MOHAWK PARK on 06-APR-2019 horse P L JACKSON
For the sake of argument let's say the WEG is right about this fine and the pace was too slow.
Here is the race: 1 MILE, PACE, PURSE $13,000.
NW $5,000 LAST 5 STARTS OR NW $11,500 LAST 10 STARTS. AE: NOT AVERAGING $1,000
PER START IN 2018-19. (MIN 10 STARTS)
Last
Horse HV PP 1/4 1/2 3/4 Stretch Finish Time 1/4 Driver Odds Trainer
8 P L Jackson(L) 8 1@/1 1/T 1/1H 1/2Q 1/HD 1:52 28 T Cullen 6.10 J Cullen
4 Arsenal Seelster 4 7/10H 7@/5T 6@/4T 5/4 2/HD 1:52 27 J Drury 34.00 Colin Johnson
7 Walter Mitty(L) 7 6/8H 5@/3H 4@/3Q 4/3 3/1 1:52.1 27.3 C Christoforou 1.95* N Gallucci
3 Nickle Bag 3 4/4H 2@/T 2@/1H 2/2Q 4/2 1:52.2 28.1 S Filion 2.45 J Robinson
2 Joes Bid(L) 2 5/6 6/5Q 7/5T 7/5H 5/2Q 1:52.2 27.1 Ja Macdonald 13.35 D Heard
1 Mt Sterling Mafia 1 3/2T 4/3Q 5/4 6/4T 6/2H 1:52.2 27.3 J Gagne 20.75 J Gagne
6 Mercenary 6 2/1 3/1T 3/1T 3/2T 7/3T 1:52.4 28.2 J Jamieson 2.70 G Ketros
5 Olliestrikesfame 5 8/12H 8@/7T 8@/6H 8/6T 8/6 1:53.1 28 Ph Hudon 31.55 W Hie
Time: 26.4, 56.2, 1:24, 1:52 (Temperature: 11, Condition: FT, Variant: 0)
So tonight PL Jackson wins again in a higher class NW $11,500
1 MILE, PACE, PURSE $20,000.
NW $11,500 LAST 5 STARTS OR NW $24,500 LAST 10 STARTS. AE: OPT. CLM. $30,000.
Last
Horse HV PP 1/4 1/2 3/4 Stretch Finish Time 1/4 Driver Odds Trainer
6 P L Jackson(L) 6 2/1H 3/3Q 3/3Q 2/1H 1/1 1:52.3 26.3 T Cullen 2.75* J Cullen
8 Bit Of Luck(L) 8 8/12 7@/9H 5@/5 4/4 2/1 1:52.4 26.2 B Mcclure 30.40 R Moreau
2 Te Kawau N(L) 2 4@/3Q 1/1T 1/1T 1/1H 3/1Q 1:52.4 27.2 J Jamieson 4.85 A Montini
9 Ramblingamblinman 9 9/14H 9@/11T 8@/6H 8/5T 4/2 1:53 26.2 C Christoforou 3.70 S Barrington
5 Drunkonaplane(L) 5 3/3 4/4T 6/5Q 5/4 5/2 1:53 26.3 S Filion 2.95 C Gilmour
1 Humboldt(L) 1 5/5T 5/7Q 7/6H 7/5T 6/2 1:53 26.2 D Mcnair 8.30 B Wallace
7 Major Hill(L) 7 1/1H 2/1T 2/1T 3/1T 7/2T 1:53.1 27.2 J Drury 10.05 C Auciello
3 Mckinney(L) 3 6/7T 6@/7T 4@/3Q 6/4Q 8/5Q 1:53.3 27.3 Ja Macdonald 20.60 R Fellows
4 Cool Rock 4 7/9T 8/9H 9@/8Q 9/8H 9/7 1:54 27 Ra Waples 36.10 R Bourassa
Time: 27.2, 56.1, 1:25.2, 1:52.3 (Temperature: 10, Condition: FT, Variant: 0)
The fractions are slower than on 4-06 but Drury and Jameison are on the lead.
So am I to assume these fractions are also too slow for this class and that Druy and Jameison will be fined?
Both track variants are 0 with the weather conditions being almost identical.
I can name a lot more Woodbine races in the last 2 months way more suspicious than these two.
While I appreciate the WEG's effort, looks to me like they are cherry picking when to enforce the rules.
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Zero chance Chody or Drury get fined. WEG hates Cullen so they pick on him.
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Some big loser must not have gotten his Issue of Child Porn Monthly if all he has to do is quibble over fractions of a harness race and says he keeps examples of other "fishy" races. Future member of MSNBC Rachel Maddow staff in his future.
Guy lost a 20c bet, losing his heroin money on a big closer, and bitches that the front runner didn't go fast enough. His mother should be ashamed she raised such a cry baby ,wimp, pussy of a son, not a real man, that is for sure
Obstruction of justice he says, and wants 6 years of video of a driver's races to witch hunt a fucked up conclusion.
This is why the game is in sad state. Drugs must have totally fucked this guys brain.
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he was penalized for totally shutting down the second quarter! first quarter 26.4, second quarter 29.3, a difference of 14 lengths! he following week, the variance was only 7 lengths (27.2 versus 28.4) Chances are he wouldn't have been able to reach the second week if a less honest pace had been set! This rule should definitely be enforced more often as far too many times, horses are mathematically eliminated at the half!
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Cullen is a great driver
Tries 110% every time on the track
No stiffs , take back to last etc
I respect that
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If one driver is to get find, then all drivers in the race should get find
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he only tries with his own as i posted before total stiff with rail horse when he goes out of his way to let mclure in
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The way I see it is, If the leader can back down the 2nd qtr. good for them. That's part of racing. Blame the drivers behind the leader for not going after them when they know the pace has slowed.
What's next, Owners getting fined for horses shitting on the track with less then 1 minute to post!
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Isn't racing about winning. Getting to the front and backing off the pace isn't the leaders issue, it's everyone that stayed in line and let him.
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this is one of those rules that just points out that the harness racing industry has no clue.
A driver does what he needs to to win the race...rewards his owners and bettors, and is penalized. How about penalizing all the other drivers for letting him do it?
If they want to pay off the purses and bets based on who the fastest horse is on paper, why run the effing races.
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this is one of those rules that just points out that the harness racing industry has no clue.
A driver does what he needs to to win the race...rewards his owners and bettors, and is penalized. How about penalizing all the other drivers for letting him do it?
If they want to pay off the purses and bets based on who the fastest horse is on paper, why run the effing races.
Agree!
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this is one of those rules that just points out that the harness racing industry has no clue.
A driver does what he needs to to win the race...rewards his owners and bettors, and is penalized. How about penalizing all the other drivers for letting him do it?
If they want to pay off the purses and bets based on who the fastest horse is on paper, why run the effing races.
This is just one of those answers that proves you have no clue! Owners and trainers don't want their horses sacrificed with insane moves because the leader is trying to gain an unfair advantage! It is the judges responsibility to insure that every race is contested fairly and when betting interests are mathematically out of a race before the half it is extremely counter productive! I have been told that in Canada, when a driver is guilty of excessively backing down the half, the judges just take his 5% check! There should be a formula for an automatic penalty. For example, if there is more than 11 lengths between the first and second quarters the offender
is fined!
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Listen up drivers, lets make sure no opening quarter is faster than 29, we will show those cocksuckers who the real bosses are
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Isn't racing about winning. Getting to the front and backing off the pace isn't the leaders issue, it's everyone that stayed in line and let him.
tmbz1
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Some big loser must not have gotten his Issue of Child Porn Monthly if all he has to do is quibble over fractions of a harness race and says he keeps examples of other "fishy" races. Future member of MSNBC Rachel Maddow staff in his future.
Guy lost a 20c bet, losing his heroin money on a big closer, and bitches that the front runner didn't go fast enough. His mother should be ashamed she raised such a cry baby ,wimp, pussy of a son, not a real man, that is for sure
Obstruction of justice he says, and wants 6 years of video of a driver's races to witch hunt a fucked up conclusion.
This is why the game is in sad state. Drugs must have totally fucked this guys brain.
Yes Tiny Tim, there is a CRACKHEAD posting in every thread! 43z.stf
And this CRACkHEAD should stop beating his exwife and pay up his child support. 77z.chf 91.jzail
I was reviewing Fines and Suspensions on Standardbred Canada when I saw this fine.
So I compared the race Cullen was fined for to last night's race.
Nothing more, nothing less.
But leave it to the scum to try and redirect the pain from their own miserable lives onto everyone else. tmbz1
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every thread you read there is always one stroke who thinks hes clever and funny...agreed very sad person...
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You would think the drivers would stick together on this issue of pace related fines.
That race the purse was $13,000.00
Winner's share $6500
Driver/trainer split $650
So the driver earns $325 for his winning drive.
Then the stewards take away $200 for violating an unwritten rule for slow fractions based on class.
That's a loss of 61% of their earnings for driving the way Yannick drives in every race he has ever driven. 11.wp
The stewards should be forced to list the expected fractions for every class of race they write!
That way every horseman is aware of what is expected if you choose to leave and set the pace.
Also every fan will then expect the stewards to penalize every driver who violates these expected fractions.
No more gray areas. No more selective enforcement. 91zxa.1
One would think Howard Taylor could have a field day against this rule. 98za.ag
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The Master is right on this one.That's why yonkers sucks.When horses that can pace in 53 go a second quarter in 30 like they do in most races,horses in the back are eliminated mathematically because of the speed they would have to go to gain ground.Like pace 24 second quarters ?
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You would think the drivers would stick together on this issue of pace related fines.
That race the purse was $13,000.00
Winner's share $6500
Driver/trainer split $650
So the driver earns $325 for his winning drive.
Then the stewards take away $200 for violating an unwritten rule for slow fractions based on class.
That's a loss of 61% of their earnings for driving the way Yannick drives in every race he has ever driven. 11.wp
The stewards should be forced to list the expected fractions for every class of race they write!
That way every horseman is aware of what is expected if you choose to leave and set the pace.
Also every fan will then expect the stewards to penalize every driver who violates these expected fractions.
No more gray areas. No more selective enforcement. 91zxa.1
One would think Howard Taylor could have a field day against this rule. 98za.ag
For many years, there was a slow quarter rule in the USTA rule book. Because the judges rarely enforced it, it was removed!
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Its not the 1/4 speed, its the 1/32 of a mile when they stop the horse once they get on top. Something in the rulles about causing confusion among trailing horses. Not much confusion as drivers know what is going to happen.
They should say horses are going a mile but racing just the first and last 1/8 th.. Might as well change over to 1/4 mile dashes..
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Looked back at the fractions for the night of the card where Cullen was fined. Both Filion and Chody had slower middle fraction in a higher class race and clearly weren't fined.
(https://i.gyazo.com/f6ef26592ffbf0fa4a94564e53b636ab.png)
(https://i.gyazo.com/61ce3e34c0052bed4edeb5b7c2b7d97a.png)
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#5 Tragically Zip just sucked and couldn't go any faster. ;D
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The Master is right on this one.That's why yonkers sucks.When horses that can pace in 53 go a second quarter in 30 like they do in most races,horses in the back are eliminated mathematically because of the speed they would have to go to gain ground.Like pace 24 second quarters ?
I happen to agree fully!! tmbz1 .There should be a rule enforced that clearly outlines the expected SLOWEST second 1/4 fractions .
Harness racing has been ruined by non enforcement of this rule!!. This is because if a race shows a horse with great gate speed drawn inside with a leading driver=ALL the gamblers know that the outside horses will be mathematically eliminated DUE TO SLOW SECOND 1/4 because horses will not be able to come to the outside the last half AND WIN-as there will now be a SPRINT HOME.
THIS REDUCES THE HANDLE.!!
AT YONKERS NO SECOND 1/4 SHOULD GO SLOWER THAN 29 SECONDS ON A FAST TRACK FOR PACERS 30 SECONDS TROTTERS---IN ANY CLASS. LETS KEEP IT SIMPLE.
SAME AT POCONO,CHESTER AND MEADOWLANDS.
FREEHOLD-30 SECONDS SECOND 1/4 31 FOR TROTTERS.
I realize that drivers on your horse are expected to do what they can to win--however going slow fractions in 2nd 1/4-while great for the leaders-eliminates those at the back and will/has result in LESS betting. This is not good for the sport where we are trying to increase handle.
Now its pet walking and great for some-terrible for others and no good for the sport.
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The Master .... "This is just one of those answers that proves you have no clue! Owners and trainers don't want their horses sacrificed with insane moves because the leader is trying to gain an unfair advantage!"
If the horse on the front end is going so slow that you want to fine the driver, how could it require an "insane move" to get to the front. What the hell. You can't suck and blow. If the guy up front is shutting it down, move your horse. If your horse can't brush past a guy putting up a .30 1/4, you may need a new horse, not a new judge.
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LIKE YOU LOSERS THINK YOU KNOW HOW TO SAVE ANY FUCKING THING. YOU BASTARDS HAVENT A CLUE. GET RID OF THE PASSING LANE, SLANT THE GATE,MAKE THE LEADER GO FAST.
HOW ABOUT CHANGING THE WAY YOU HANDICAP A RACE? BET THE FRONT RUNNERS. NAH THAT MAKES TOO MUCH FUCKING SENSE, AND MOST OF YOU IDIOTS SPENT YOUR SENSE ON 10 CENT SUPERS
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LIKE YOU LOSERS THINK YOU KNOW HOW TO SAVE ANY FUCKING THING. YOU BASTARDS HAVENT A CLUE. GET RID OF THE PASSING LANE, SLANT THE GATE,MAKE THE LEADER GO FAST.
HOW ABOUT CHANGING THE WAY YOU HANDICAP A RACE? BET THE FRONT RUNNERS. NAH THAT MAKES TOO MUCH FUCKING SENSE, AND MOST OF YOU IDIOTS SPENT YOUR SENSE ON 10 CENT SUPERS
None of this literally has anything to do with this thread. The judges found fit to punish a driver, via a vine, for not going fast enough. Gamblers did not cause this. As I pointed out in two charts from that night above, two other drivers had equally slow second quarters/fractions in higher class races and were not fined.
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This is just one of those answers that proves you have no clue! Owners and trainers don't want their horses sacrificed with insane moves because the leader is trying to gain an unfair advantage! It is the judges responsibility to insure that every race is contested fairly and when betting interests are mathematically out of a race before the half it is extremely counter productive! I have been told that in Canada, when a driver is guilty of excessively backing down the half, the judges just take his 5% check! There should be a formula for an automatic penalty. For example, if there is more than 11 lengths between the first and second quarters the offender
is fined!
Gain an unfair advantage? Geez fucking louise.
Drivers are supposed to try and win, and whose fault is it if your horse is 20 lengths off of a slow pace?
In thoroughbred racing, they write sonnets about jockeys who can slow down the pace and nurse their horse along.
All this nonsense I guess is supposed to help the best horse win? Well if they want to do that run time trials not races. Or race the horses on mile straightaways so post position is taken out of play.
Unless a driver in front snatches up and causes interference he should be free to set the pace he can.
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Fully agree 100% with stand forever-he has a clue-spot on..
Of course-a driver is supposed to do what he can to win--but at what cost?? screw up racing?? Turn away gamblers?? The argument to just bet the leavers doesnt ring true-because by now EVERYONE knows which driver will leave. The top drivers pick the best horse and thats usually the ones that can leave-if not they know it can win anyway because its simply the best in the race.
Going slow second 1/4's has been the norm now for 10 years--and during this time the sport has cascaded downwards along with it.
Its not the main factor--but its a factor and an important one--destroys the excitement of the race and ruins it for the trainers and owners and mostly GAMBLERS of horses who draw outside-going to the races knowing that there is a VERY high chance they spend money for 0 return for that week.You cant pull early because if you get parked -your horse gets 0-so drivers sit in Indian file. Pet walking.
Time to get tough on this total BS.
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YOU WANNA SET IN DURING A SLOW QUARTER THEN YOU SHOULD GET FINED TOO
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Just scrape 15%-20% of the purse off the top and pay the leader at the 1/2.
Problem solved.
100%
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Just scrape 15%-20% of the purse off the top and pay the leader at the 1/2.
Problem solved.
100%
CAN HAVE 28 RACES A NIGHT THIS WAY
I LIKE IT
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Anybody on here that thinks a guy sitting 5th at the quarter when they slow up should pull and get stung a 27 second quarter first up on a suicide mission doesn't understand this business and or never drove a horse.
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And somehow most gamblers, who are degenerate piece of shit losers in my book, think that we are sposed to make races a show, make them entertaining, you know Hollywood them. Fuck them, number one is that I come back alive and number 2 is that I get paid for my work. Lazy ass trainers want them back with no marks on them and something still in the tank, and they are the ones who put our names down to drive not the losers in the grandstand or the ones who got a $2 show ticket on a 80/1 rat sitting in front of a screen. I know where my bread is buttered and no matter what judges say or do, things aint gonna change one bit
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And somehow most gamblers, who are degenerate piece of shit losers in my book, think that we are sposed to make races a show, make them entertaining, you know Hollywood them. Fuck them, number one is that I come back alive and number 2 is that I get paid for my work. Lazy ass trainers want them back with no marks on them and something still in the tank, and they are the ones who put our names down to drive not the losers in the grandstand or the ones who got a $2 show ticket on a 80/1 rat sitting in front of a screen. I know where my bread is buttered and no matter what judges say or do, things aint gonna change one bit
You really are a POS harness driver---thanks for helping to ruin the sport. You fail to see you are in the entertainment business-but You are nothing but a greedy POS who cares nothing about anybody except yourself-should have been a politician-Democrat-you would have done great. Just thank yourself that Im not a Judge because I would enforce the slow 1/4 rule and then see how good you are-scumbag.I really hope drivers are not all like you because then we would be totally royally screwed.
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I actually think going to slow a middle or slow quarter can sometimes hurt the horse you are driving- put him to sleep..
Have seen many times horse steals a second & gets passed up the back with ease..
One other consideration is wind...I have been to the track when howling winds make a 30 second q more like a 27 & vise versa..
Definiely a slippery slope when it comes to pace & up to me take more our of the judges hands then in it,,,
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when they slow up should pull and get stung a 27 second quarter first up on a suicide mission doesn't understand this business and or never drove a horse.
If they have slowed it down enough to ruin the race, .30 1/4, you can't really get stung with a .27 qtr. That would not be slowed down.
Doesn't everyone have to make at least one move in a race to be a contender. Some horses leave like a train. Some horses move first up. Some horses get to the rail as quick as possible and have one kick coming home. Pick your poison. The good ones have 1 1/2 or 2 moves in them.
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Anybody on here that thinks a guy sitting 5th at the quarter when they slow up should pull and get stung a 27 second quarter first up on a suicide mission doesn't understand this business and or never drove a horse.
WRONG..A SMART DRIVER PULLS AND FLUSHES COVER tmbz1
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Do thoroughbreds fine jockeys for going to fast or slow? Horses are wide in every race I’ve ever seen
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Do thoroughbreds fine jockeys for going to fast or slow? Horses are wide in every race I’ve ever seen
tmbz1
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IT do happen. Just ast KENNY DESOUROMOOO.
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IT do happen. Just ast KENNY DESOUROMOOO.
HES A DRUNK AND YOU KNOW IT
THEY DO TOO tmbz1
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WRONG..A SMART DRIVER PULLS AND FLUSHES COVER tmbz1
You are such an ass wipe! No cover is going to come when the result is obviously suicidal and when the cover eventually stalls then you can go three wide and really finish up the track!
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YOU WANNA SET IN DURING A SLOW QUARTER THEN YOU SHOULD GET FINED TOO
Shut up! You're an embarrassment to yourself you moron! Obviously too fucking fat to sit in a race bike!
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Look at yonkers, open mares getting to the half in 59, its just plain stupid
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Obviously the master gets it. Kudos to the knowledgeable !!!
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Shut up! You're an embarrassment to yourself you moron! Obviously too fucking fat to sit in a race bike!
YOU SIT EVERY WEEK WITH MY HORSE AND YOU ARE FIRED. AND THE NAME CALLING IS CLASSIC!!! HORSES STOP ON THE FRONT END FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, DAILY. YOU GONNA WAIT TILL THEY BACK THRU THE FIELD TO MOVE?? 73cv.2
I WASN'T ALWAYS A FAT GUY EITHER. I QUIT WHEN TIRES GOT EXPENSIVE tmbz1