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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Jctoronto on February 16, 2019, 02:48:12 PM
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Has this ever happened in a harness track judges booth:
a) judge(s) 'did not agree with' a photo finish result and possibly altered it or 'saw it differently' before posting
b) judge(s) altered photo result because of backstretch phone call or what might have been purchased earlier in their pocket.
c) judge(s) at' b ' track for example put up inquiry sign after race because someone in pari-mutuel/tote phoned them 'suggesting' only .40 cents of longshot super was sold (totalling whole payout pool of $3100 and NONE of it was bought by local horsemen..resulti ng in a very questionable inquiry eventually taking down 60-1 place horse totally off ticket..and slicing up pie much more favorably for local horsemen...Does that happen? Do judges have that kind of power to adjust result to keep the monry 'in house'?
Just asking....thought couple of you might have heard something.
..maybe not.
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have they ever been watching a sporting event on tv instead of watching warm ups for lame horses
do they show up after warm ups begin .
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The photo finish is computerized.You cannot alter it.Why some finishes look different on the video is because the video camera is way to the right or left of the actual finish line.The photo finish camera is perpendicular to the racetrack.
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I can remember the track vet actually watching the horses score before a race and scratching some horses. Now you need a court order to scratch a horse.
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Photos have been doctored at every track since i started going in 1972,once in my 20's i demanded to go up to the photo booth at Hazel Park,the woman that worked the photo finishes showed me how they are done,she actually showed me how she could put the finish line anywhere she wanted on the pic,true story
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Some finish photos leave more questions than answers as the wire appears angled or otherwise altered! Check out the place photo in the second at Pompano Thursday night! No way the 6 horse got up for a dead heat! The photo shown had the line distinctly slanted!
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Judges fixing photos and checking tickets before posting results IS ABSOLUTLY FUCKIN CLASSIC ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Yes and quite a few horses do not warm up well and race big. This argument goes both ways.
When I worked with a state Vet. at Finger Lakes TB track, the Vet kept a notebook on every horse. Before the race he and the Vet's assistant would look up each entry and review their history behind the gait and general fitness. We also kept a complete log on all horses at the spitbox. How they cooled out and their habits when collecting urine and blood. That was many moons ago. Does any track vet get this proactive, anymore.
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The photo finish is computerized.You cannot alter it.Why some finishes look different on the video is because the video camera is way to the right or left of the actual finish line.The photo finish camera is perpendicular to the racetrack.
Loved the old camera angle at Yonkers. Yrs ago used to watch a fair number of races at it. The unaware would regularly insist the outside horse won.
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Line is added to photo and can easily be slanted.
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HUMPTY KNEW ngc3
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By rule, they do not have to go by the photo results. Stewards have FINAL say on results. Look it up in the state rulebooks.
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You people are paranoid schizophrenics.Th e photo finish camera is fixed to the judges stand.Believe me I know what I'm talking about.If the judges were as corrupt as you say, they would all be rich. Why would horses Pay say 50$ to win if the judges were betting.Think about it people!
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You people are paranoid schizophrenics.Th e photo finish camera is fixed to the judges stand.Believe me I know what I'm talking about.If the judges were as corrupt as you say, they would all be rich. Why would horses Pay say 50$ to win if the judges were betting.Think about it people!
tmbz1
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I had a horse, Crystal Symphony, finish second in a race at 30-1. In the stretch the driver of the winner Mike Forte came out and almost knocked another driver out of the bike. The inquiry went up and Gene King an every night regular came over and said I have your horse on top and Forte has to come down. I told him that there was no chance that presiding judge Frank Pelligrino would put my horse up. Sure enough there was no change to the order of finish. I had many run ins with Pelligrino and he bent the rules on that one for his personal bias.
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I have both judged and driven.Sometimes you drive a horse that is big and stretches his head out and your bike is behind your competitor's and he thinks he won and conversely so. Sometimes you're in a heated stretch drive and you kinda lose sight of the wire. The video camera is never on the wire so you get an angle either right or left of the line.I've been in the judges stand shoulder to shoulder and you will have a different perspective on the finish especially if a horse is coming fast and wide. But yes, there are judges that bet- I've worked with a couple. Today judges need more evidence for a placing because everybody has a lawyer. Alot of times the offended driver will say naw he didn't bother me. Take that to court see where that goes.
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Some finish photos leave more questions than answers as the wire appears angled or otherwise altered! Check out the place photo in the second at Pompano Thursday night! No way the 6 horse got up for a dead heat! The photo shown had the line distinctly slanted!
"Slanting" the line is not possible with the technology and software used today for photo finish.
Also, the line you see in the picture is just a tool used to help separate horses. The "picture" is actually a scan of all the horses on the finish line in relation to each other. The actual finish line is the background of the picture. These cameras take pictures of over 2000 frames per second, so the colored pylon on the finish line will be a continuous line on the picture.
It's amazing how many make such ridiculous claims without knowing how anything actually works.
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HUMPTY KNEW ngc3
It absolutely cannot be slanted, lol.
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The line you see in a photo finish pic is built in to camera. The way the judges manipulate a finish is they start taking pics about 5 feet before finish and continue clicking for 2 or 3 feet after. They now have about 10 or 12 pics to choose from and in a blanket finish they may have 2 or 3 different "finishes". Of course they can only do this when horses are noses apart but trust me, it is done more than you know. Usually the way you can tell is watch the replay and when the horse actually hits the wire, look at what the driver is doing. He may be leaning back or he may be in the process of whipping. Then when you see the "official" photo, the driver is not doing either and that is because they are using a pic before or after the horse actually hit the line. FACT!!!!!
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read, lol.
To whoever is reading this, please know there is no truth to this whatsoever.
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Asking..
In the judges 'unwritten' job description...how often does 'cleaning up' a photo finish mess or lapped on breaking decision or optional pylon violation, when drivers screw up a predetermined 'enveloped finish', occur?
Does any judge also get 'envelope' in advance of racing...like many drivers do. It would be helpful for a judge(s) to know how backstretch is thinking, right?
To say there are no 'assists' from judges stand would be short sighted, no?
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Stop the insanity... The photo is sent to a computer. Then line is moved to noses. It's that simple. Stop the insanity on fixed photos.
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Asking..
In the judges 'unwritten' job description...how often does 'cleaning up' a photo finish mess or lapped on breaking decision or optional pylon violation, when drivers screw up a predetermined 'enveloped finish', occur?
Does any judge also get 'envelope' in advance of racing...like many drivers do. It would be helpful for a judge(s) to know how backstretch is thinking, right?
To say there are no 'assists' from judges stand would be short sighted, no?
ENVELOPES RECEIVED AFTER 6:30 PM POST WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED DURING PHOTOS
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Wake Up.
https://www.paulickreport.com/horseplayers-category/whoops-delaware-park-officials-post-incorrect-order-finish/
https://readhorseracing.com/2018/03/29/bha-apologise-after-incorrect-photo-finish-judgement/
https://www.racingpost.com/news/photo-finish-farce-at-sandown-as-wrong-winner-called-before-result-is-amended/337979
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/may/22/photo-finish-punters-ventura-dragon-carlisle-betting-horse-racing
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/australian-racing-board-will-review-rule-that-potentially-duds-punters-on-photo-finishes/news-story/74b0424313813b781bc8f2473e486f35
These don't have anything to do with the garbage you posted in my response. Judges manipulating pictures, blanket finishes, multiple pictures to choose from?? Everything in your post is so factually inaccurate it's comical. Judges in harness racing don't even have access to the computers running the photo finish software, photo finish is normally located in an entirely different room operated by another individual.
I have extensive knowledge of how today's photo finish cameras, and the corresponding software, work, so I know what I'm talking about. Try educating yourself instead of spreading ridiculous conspiracy theories.
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These don't have anything to do with the garbage you posted in my response. Judges manipulating pictures, blanket finishes, multiple pictures to choose from?? Everything in your post is so factually inaccurate it's comical. Judges in harness racing don't even have access to the computers running the photo finish software, photo finish is normally located in an entirely different room operated by another individual.
I have extensive knowledge of how today's photo finish cameras, and the corresponding software, work, so I know what I'm talking about. Try educating yourself instead of spreading ridiculous conspiracy theories.
"multiple pictures to choose from" ngc3
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I remember years ago at yr a few people making claims about phoney win photos. 2 guys claimed the driver who won had short hair and in the win photo he had long hair.
I personally never saw anything like that but somebody brought up forte and years ago on a snowy night in the last race forte clearly won, but after the race the photo light came on. I bet forte and everyone around me said don't worry he won easy
long story short he lost the photo. he appeared to win by a head or neck live, I was really pissed
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I've learned to expect almost anything when money is involved!
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YOU HAVE EXTENSIVE KNOWLEDGE!! ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
Here is the model that is used at most tracks. Read the features moron. It has the ability to take over 2000 still frames per second. YOU ARE A MORON!!!!!
http://www.finishlynx.com/product/cameras/etherlynx-vision-photo-finish-camera/
Hahahahaha, who's the moron? That's exactly what I said in an earlier post. But it doesn't work like a single snapshot of a normal camera. When the horses come across the finish line the camera starts taking over 2000 frames per second, so you end up with one continual scan of the entire field. Not 2000 still pictures, lol.
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BULLSHIT! You can select, print or display any individual frame, you fucktard.
You're embarrassing yourself dude. An individual frame wouldn't even be recognizable. I do this for a living. What you are claiming couldn't be farther from the truth.
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I won a race for what should have been a lot of money at Hawthorne 2 years ago. I know the wire at every track I bet. I'm betting and watching races for 40 years. The photo that was put up looked like a dead heat and it was clearly just before the wire. I was screwed royally.
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I won a race for what should have been a lot of money at Hawthorne 2 years ago. I know the wire at every track I bet. I'm betting and watching races for 40 years. The photo that was put up looked like a dead heat and it was clearly just before the wire. I was screwed royally.
THEY HAD SEVERAL PHOTOS TO CHOOSE FROM?
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THEY HAD SEVERAL PHOTOS TO CHOOSE FROM?
No idea but the one used was just before the wire. I'll look up the date and race number and you will be able to see for your self. I still have the emails that were sent to the judges. That will help with the date of the race.
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No idea but the one used was just before the wire. I'll look up the date and race number and you will be able to see for your self. I still have the emails that were sent to the judges. That will help with the date of the race.
OK..I'LL WAIT HERE AND WE WILL JUST SEE tmbz1
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No idea but the one used was just before the wire. I'll look up the date and race number and you will be able to see for your self. I still have the emails that were sent to the judges. That will help with the date of the race.
Sounds like the line just wasn't on the nose, but trust me they only have one image.
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do you actually think the wire you see in the photo is on the negative?
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do you actually think the wire you see in the photo is on the negative?
NOT ON NOSE EITHER
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OK..I'LL WAIT HERE AND WE WILL JUST SEE tmbz1
Hawthorne, Sunday September 25, 2016
Race 3
I'll try to get somebody to post the race. I don't know how to.
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Hawthorne, Sunday September 25, 2016
Race 3
I'll try to get somebody to post the race. I don't know how to.
LOOKS LIKE YOU GOT HOSED AS I SAW IT AGREED
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Now your a judge
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Now your a judge
NOW YOUR A FOOD CRITIC
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Hawthorne, Sunday September 25, 2016
Race 3
I'll try to get somebody to post the race. I don't know how to.
It's been 3 years.
When do you let it go?
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It's been 3 years.
When do you let it go?
reminds me of a big m photo many years ago. back when/then you could pull up a picture on their website , that would show a full length of the stretch as the horses were at the wire. what to my eyes showed up, but a horse somewhere getting close to the wire with his head on his shoulders. NO neck a at all. it seems to me the driver of that horse was mike lachance. most amazing thing I've ever seen in a photo finish. i'll only guess that it was not the photo finish they showed the patrons. any body else remember seeing this ??? . it was quite a while ago
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It's been 3 years.
When do you let it go?
I did let it go. It’s just something that happened that I can add to the topic.
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In Chicago the judges cash two to three bets a night. Been doing it for a long time. Not like you can do anything if they put up a wrong number. I remember Tom Kelly doing it at maywood a few years back and people picking up tickets off the floor and cashing them and five minutes later they took down all of the results and put up the correct numbers. Anyone remember this? Again it’s not like you can do anything about it. The judges have the final say so they do what they want. Eat that shit sandwich and like it. Ain’t nothing anyone can do to the judges. They have final say period!!!
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STEWARDS are GREAT. They know their SHIT.
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Yonkers mirror image should be at every harness track. that would solve most of the photo finish problems.
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Judges have bailed out more harness driver and backstretch error ass then you or I will ever know.
and on top of 'hit and miss photo technology' and the all knowing results of a 'judges inquiry and breakers' both of which are totally subjective......t hen you bring in their latest get out jail card: fucking the result the last few years of TOTALLY SUBJECTIVE 'pylon violation or not' placings...are u kidding me.
IF WE WERENT BEFORE...OUR MONEY IS TOTALLY UNPROTECTED IN EACH OF THESE TWO MINUTE TESTS. Handicapping skill vs luck...luck has pulled further ahead in last 5 yrs.