HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: bond on April 30, 2018, 10:01:00 AM
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Harness racing over the last 10 years has become more boring thanks to lack of authorities/judges doing their job and racing becoming less attractive to betting with at least 2-3 auto toss horses in every race.
The metal race bikes and offset wheels have contributed to this.
Something that could be done quickly to help improve this situation-is going with wooden race bikes.
Believe it or not this gives more horses equal chances-with the horses in front not having the advantage they do now.
Outside horses will have more of a shot--just compare results from 10-20 years ago and you will see what I mean.
Going fast miles is nice-but doesnt improve the handle or make racing more exciting-in fact it does the opposite.
Yonkers could just invest in buying 10 bikes-and everyone races in the same bike--bingo-instant better racing.
Im totally convinced this is the right move after watching racing for the last 20 years and seeing what is happening today-total BS.
Please go to the wooden bikes.
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Makes a lot of sense. tmbz1. Of course some horses will be now at a disadvantage being forced to use a bike that may hinder their performance. That will be tough to swallow.
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Have to get a lot more than 10 bikes. Horses come in all shapes and sizes. Trotters might need a bigger bike. But not a bad idea. But very old school and I doubt todays culture would go for it. It's always MORE, MORE, MORE. ;D
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Agreed, Viking. Maybe just more restrictions on what make a bike approved or not.
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SO NICE OF BOND TO STEAL BOB PANDOOFUS IDEA AND PASS IT OFF AS HIS OWN. SHOWS THERE IS ANOTHER IDIOT IN HARNESS RACING STUCK IN 1970.
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KNOW WHAT WORKS FOR YOUR HORSE AND FORGET ABOUT IT
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If not they can call you fatty
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If not they can call you fatty
GOD MORNING EATING GURU
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Thank you ,,, as we speak I’m ordering lunch
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Great idea, then we can go back to tie down harness, billiard cue head poles and soft caps.
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One of the many reasons that wooden bikes went the way of the wagon wheel was because when there was an accident & horses went down in a pileup the wooden shafts would splinter & inpail either horses & or drivers. Not a good idea to my mind. jmho
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Good point. safety is paramount. The material a bike is made from is not the point. The point being an approved material that does not give one an advantage over another.
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Good point. safety is paramount. The material a bike is made from is not the point. The point being an approved material that does not give one an advantage over another.
If they all have a theoretically slower bike on then what's the point?
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Maybe not wood but definitely go back to old design. It would definitely help by slowing down the gassed horses, as front end is winning way too much.
Are you saying the non gassed horse would not get slowed down using theoretically slower bikes?
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With A I taking over why not program robots to drive horses.It would be a giant chess match & they could actually think.They wouldn't be giving holes or going dead.
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With A I taking over why not program robots to drive horses.It would be a giant chess match & they could actually think.They wouldn't be giving holes or going dead.
So the first time robot A doesn't give robot D a hole in the first turn which then causes robot D to be parked on the outside of robot A which causes robot A to be locked along the rail & then robot A gets the Meadowlands shuffle & gets spit out the back end by the head of the lane you will be wanting a thinking human back lol.
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When we used to drive with the slower bikes, we had to "rate" a horse if we were on the front. We had to do this because unlike the bikes of today, horses would tire if going all out. However, by rating or slowing down the pace, it gave the closers a chance to get in position to make a run late. With the bikes of today, the leader is basically balls to the wall and doesn't tire and it becomes mathematically or physically impossible to make up the ground conceded at the start.
But in the old days the horses behind would be getting tired pulling that slower bike so would have no kick left to pass anyone.
All I'm saying is if all horses wore slow bikes there would be no advantage. Now if the inside 4 wore slow bikes & the outside 4 (at an 8 wide track) got to wear fast bikes then I could see where that would change things.
I just don't buy your above theory.
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You keep on dismissing the start of a race where the horses at the rear concede 7-10 lengths. With the fast bike there is no way to make up that ground as the horse will not get tired on the front. With the old bike the horse on the front will tire sooner since it has used it's energy to get to the front as well as using the more demanding bike. This will give the horses who haven't used up their energy yet to close in on the tiring leader.
You keep dismissing the end of the race when the horses at the rear are to tired from pulling that old bike to make a charge.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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You keep dismissing the end of the race when the horses at the rear are to tired from pulling that old bike to make a charge.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
IMHO-you are dead wrong.-I started watching harness 25 years ago as a kid-and racebikes were wood and racing was exciting.
1) These bikes are not as fast as those of today-obviously.
2) The wooden bikes dont allow a horse to leave as fast as the metal ones of today-so the field is more tightly bunched=less disadvantage to those out wide..
3) The leader has to expend more energy pulling the heavier bike to get to the front fast-while those behind getting easier trips-use less and will have more of a kick finishing.
Today -horses winning from the 7-8 hole are becoming less and less with the strategy of using the lighter aerodynamic faster bikes and not tiring so easily.
Proof is in the results--25 years ago when I started watching-every night there were winners out of the 7-8--now many nights and you have 0.
This makes racing boring and dull-less gambling because favorites are winning more often and racing too predictable.
Either use the wooden bikes--or have 2 trailers-to give outside horses a better shot of winning
There is a reason why the french dont bet our "normal" 7-8 horse races--they bet in 10-12 horse fields or more.
same everywhere else o/s--except here-where racing is going downhill because of it.
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Bond is just another one of those idiots stuck in yesteryear. Nascar should go back to racing those winged monsters because they looked cool. Why cant you admit this is that leisure suit wearing Bob Pandolfo's idea? He is just another grandstand goof stuck on 3 to 5 shots and blames his losses on everything but his bad handicapping. No driver wants to race in those wooden bikes, they were dangerous. The only thing those driftwood shafted bikes should be used for is to start a bonfire.
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I guess you haven't watched races of today where the horses in the rear pace last quarters in 25 or 26 seconds and lose ground to the leader. This did not happen with the old bikes. Front end did not stand up like today.
I've been watching races for many years including races of today thank you. For all the years that I have been watching, the front end has always held up. Maybe you can find some stats comparing front end winners today compared to yesteryear? I googled that but came up empty. If you can give me some stats to prove your case I will change my opinion but until then as I said already we will have to agree to disagree.
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With the race bikes of the fifties, sixties, and seventies the drivers sat upright and much closer to the horse. Look at the old pictures. Frank Irvin could but his hand on Bret Hanover's rear same with Stanley Dancer and Albatross. This resulted in the horse that was seventh at the rail to be much close to the lead horse then today. The horse seventh at the fence in 1965 had much less ground to make up to catch the lead horses. That resulted in more come from behind winners.
I agree that makes sense but I still need stats to confirm that there were more come from behind winners back in the day. My recollection is that front enders have always out preformed to the same degree.
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I'll agree with Ron Pierce
https://harnessracingupdate.com/pdf/hru/hru042918.pdf?v2
I won't.
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It must really suck being smarter than several hall of famers.
I'm satisfied with my intelligence. Not sure if that means it sucks?
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It must really suck being smarter than several hall of famers.
Your taking this personal it seems, I have nothing against anything you have said until this post. I just disagree with your & others opinion of the old race bikes that's all. Nothing personal at all & no biggy. If stats prove me wrong I'll fess up to being wrong.
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amazing that people from back in the day just cant admit that horses are better nowadays, they are better trained, better driven, better taken care of, so giving them better equipment is only natural. horsemen just cant admit that people are better than they were, and this bullshit thayt races are better just because the winner comes from behind is pure crap. Learn to train your horse to leave or just get out of the business
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I could go either way, and trust me I am an expert on shafts...I have seem them all. Back in the 80's I loved the feel of a nice wooden shaft. Then came these now shiny...hard...me tal shafts that everyone wanted. I find the bearings make a big difference. The all come with different quality balls inside the bearing. I always found if you get a really good set of balls any kind of shaft will do.
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I could go either way, and trust me I am an expert on shafts...I have seem them all. Back in the 80's I loved the feel of a nice wooden shaft. Then came these now shiny...hard...me tal shafts that everyone wanted. I find the bearings make a big difference. The all come with different quality balls inside the bearing. I always found if you get a really good set of balls any kind of shaft will do.
What about the old wooden Haughton bikes. Real masterpieces.
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Yes they were masterpieces.
The Haughton Faber all hickory bike was the best looking most comfortable ride ever made. Put it behind a sound good gaited horse and it felt like you were being rocked to sleep in your mother's arms.
I hear ya.
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I was only Down Under once but from what I remember the Kiwi's have much bigger shafts.
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I could go either way, and trust me I am an expert on shafts...I have seem them all. Back in the 80's I loved the feel of a nice wooden shaft. Then came these now shiny...hard...me tal shafts that everyone wanted. I find the bearings make a big difference. The all come with different quality balls inside the bearing. I always found if you get a really good set of balls any kind of shaft will do.
And then there was the infamous single shaft, talk about the opposite of old & slow.