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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: captaintreacherous on August 23, 2026, 10:16:44 AM

Title: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: captaintreacherous on August 23, 2026, 10:16:44 AM
The Metro. $1 Million.  (CA)

The NA Cup  $1 Million. (CA)

The Little Brown Jug


Although the Jug doesnt go for a Million it  separates

the men from the boys if you can get to the 2nd heat/Final

after winning an elim


Very few horses have navigated these 3 races successfully


Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Brown jug on August 23, 2026, 12:16:19 PM
a new triple crown for 3 year old pacers should be created
na cup
lbj
big m pace

at least they are 3 races that create interest and generally attract the best horses
put up a decent prize for a triple crown and they will come to delaware
it would be the third and final leg and sure create a buzz
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: MIKE CAMPBELL on August 23, 2026, 12:22:55 PM
The Metro. $1 Million.  (CA)

The NA Cup  $1 Million. (CA)

The Little Brown Jug


Although the Jug doesnt go for a Million it  separates

the men from the boys if you can get to the 2nd heat/Final

after winning an elim


Very few horses have navigated these 3 races successfully
The Jug is a joke. Anyone with a great horse and half a brain would never race their horse on a half mile.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: rainman2 on August 23, 2026, 04:24:05 PM
Look at New York pacers for the 2&3 year old pacing boys.
Not many horses to begin with and only a handful of good ones
1/2 Mike racing doesn’t help the cause here. 
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: jupiter on August 23, 2026, 05:49:47 PM
It will be the strong that survive, some have been cooked already, more to come.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: rainman2 on August 23, 2026, 07:38:52 PM
a new triple crown for 3 year old pacers should be created
na cup
lbj
big m pace

at least they are 3 races that create interest and generally attract the best horses
put up a decent prize for a triple crown and they will come to delaware
it would be the third and final leg and sure create a buzz

actually a 5/8 track would be better.  Show your the best on 3 different size tracks!
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Lockedin with Pace on August 23, 2026, 07:45:02 PM
If they're going to have a new Triple Crown for 3-year-olds the LBJ has to be one of the races even though the top horses rarely race on 1/2-mile tracks.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: rainman2 on August 23, 2026, 07:52:57 PM
If they're going to have a new Triple Crown for 3-year-olds the LBJ has to be one of the races even though the top horses rarely race on 1/2-mile tracks.

They let the Jug slide as far as purse money over the years..They solved this issue by throwing more purse money into it.

Is this a quick fix or permanent solution?
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Lockedin with Pace on August 23, 2026, 07:55:25 PM
It's probably to entice the top horses, is it permanent, who knows. I just hope they don't discontinue heat racing.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: rainman2 on August 23, 2026, 07:57:57 PM
It's probably to entice the top horses, is it permanent, who knows. I just hope they don't discontinue heat racing.

From what is said, whether this is true or not,  horses get better in the 2nd heat.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Lockedin with Pace on August 23, 2026, 08:01:00 PM
The elim winners do have the advantage of the inside posts in the finals and are probably the better horses anyway.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Kenny on August 23, 2026, 08:05:58 PM
a new triple crown for 3 year old pacers should be created
na cup
lbj
big m pace

at least they are 3 races that create interest and generally attract the best horses
put up a decent prize for a triple crown and they will come to delaware
it would be the third and final leg and sure create a buzz

There are trainers that basically boycott the jug.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Lockedin with Pace on August 23, 2026, 08:08:49 PM
Unless you have a top horse or are locally owned, you're probably going to skip it, even some of the top ones have in recent years.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 23, 2026, 08:11:40 PM
Speaking as someone that lives here  ngc3, yes its permanent
I drive by there everyday on my way to work ngc3
A couple years ago the purse was a million dollars
Last year the total purse dropped back down to around $700000 total I think.
The county of Delaware passed a bed/occupancy tax a few years ago of I think 1.5 % to strictly go towards the LBJ purses and improvements to the fairgrounds.
Alot of the buildings and barns are in bad shape including the grandstand and need a ton of repairs or torn down completely and rebuilt. Attendance is way down from when I was there as a kid..like all harness tracks. My first LBJ was Niatross..1980..I was almost 6 years old. This was the only tax increase I have ever voted for in my life ngc3
I will never need a hotel in the county I live in
They won't get rid of the 2 heat racing as long as the old timers are in charge. They got rid of the potential 3rd heat I think 5 or 6 years ago.
It is a combination of racing on a half and the 2nd heat that keeps some horses away. You draw post 7 or 8, you are likely doomed
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: rainman2 on August 23, 2026, 08:11:56 PM
Unless you have a top horse or are locally owned, you're probably going to skip it, even some of the top ones have in recent years.

There are 2 sides to this.

prior to this year, the Adios was far from stellar fields?  Same as the Jug now?

Now there's enough money to make the Jug viable.  you might catch an easier field than expected too.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 23, 2026, 08:14:08 PM
Unless you have a top horse or are locally owned, you're probably going to skip it, even some of the top ones have in recent years.
In recent times the best horse that skipped it that I hated to not see in person was SBSW. I think it was the 2 heats that kept him away. He won the Messenger at Yonkers in a monsoon
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Lockedin with Pace on August 23, 2026, 08:14:23 PM
Speaking as someone that lives here  ngc3, yes its permanent
I drive by there everyday on my way to work ngc3
A couple years ago the purse was a million dollars
Last year the total purse dropped back down to around $700000 total I think.
The county of Delaware passed a bed/occupancy tax a few years ago of I think 1.5 % to strictly go towards the LBJ purses and improvements to the fairgrounds.
Alot of the buildings and barns are in bad shape including the grandstand and need a ton of repairs or torn down completely and rebuilt. Attendance is way down from when I was there as a kid..like all harness tracks. My first LBJ was Niatross..1980..I was almost 6 years old. This was the only tax increase I have ever voted for in my life ngc3
I will never need a hotel in the county I live in
They won't get rid of the 2 heat racing as long as the old timers are in charge. They got rid of the potential 3rd heat I think 5 or 6 years ago.
It is a combination of racing on a half and the 2nd heat that keeps some horses away. You draw post 7 or 8, you are likely doomed

I used to love the 3 heats, also remember it going to 4 heats one year with the 3 winners, with the race going off around 7:00.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: rainman2 on August 23, 2026, 08:16:01 PM
I used to love the 3 heats, also remember it going to 4 heats one year with the 3 winners, with the race going off around 7:00.

Wasn't 1 year right at sundown?
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 23, 2026, 08:17:59 PM
I used to love the 3 heats, also remember it going to 4 heats one year with the 3 winners, with the race going off around 7:00.
Well they would have 3 divisions full fields and the top 3 from each division would race in heat 2. If the winner from heat 2 was not a division winner. That triggered the 3rd heat with all 4 winners..3 division winners and 2nd heat winner.
Best example in my time going there of this is was the battles between Western Hanover and Fake Left. Maybe 1992 or 1993.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 23, 2026, 08:21:16 PM
Wasn't 1 year right at sundown?
Pretty much every year is now John, great view of it from our families box tmbz1
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: rainman2 on August 23, 2026, 08:22:54 PM
Well they would have 3 divisions full fields and the top 3 from each division would race in heat 2. If the winner from heat 2 was not a division winner. That triggered the 3rd heat with all 4 winners..3 division winners and 2nd heat winner.
Best example in my time going there of this is was the battles between Western Hanover and Fake Left. Maybe 1992 or 1993.

Waples said after the race, he wanted to follow Western but the horse had others ideas!

I believe Waples got the drive as McNichol got hurt earlier on the card.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 23, 2026, 08:23:53 PM
The elim winners do have the advantage of the inside posts in the finals and are probably the better horses anyway.

I think they changed that this year, where division winners draw between post 1-5 rather then 1 and 2
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 23, 2026, 08:25:32 PM
Waples said after the race, he wanted to follow Western but the horse had others ideas!

I believe Waples got the drive as McNichol got hurt earlier on the card.
You are correct sir tmbz1
Also Fake Left ran that year at the jug preview at Scioto and didn't do anything.
I was there at Scioto that night. Shame Scioto discontinued it.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Lockedin with Pace on August 23, 2026, 08:28:03 PM

I think they changed that this year, where division winners draw between post 1-5 rather then 1 and 2


If that's the case and you still had to win 2 heats, they'd be a better chance of it going to 4 heats.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: rainman2 on August 23, 2026, 08:28:14 PM
You are correct sir tmbz1
Also Fake Left ran that year at the jug preview at Scioto and didn't do anything.
I was there at Scioto that night. Shame Scioto discontinued it.

No money or not important?
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 23, 2026, 08:31:57 PM
If they're going to have a new Triple Crown for 3-year-olds the LBJ has to be one of the races even though the top horses rarely race on 1/2-mile tracks.
Agreed tmbz1yes it has to be included
I know I am biased because I live here ngc3
And the Jug and their Society, just like the Hambo, has many,many faults
There are alot of things I'd do differently
But, having said that it is still one of the most prestigious races to win
What did the Cane Pace draw, 5 or 6 entries
The Messenger had none of the best 3 year olds entered this year.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Lockedin with Pace on August 23, 2026, 08:32:18 PM
Most of the top horses skipped it so they probably discontinued it.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: rainman2 on August 23, 2026, 08:35:55 PM
Most of the top horses skipped it so they probably discontinued it.

Should they bring it back as they are trying to make the Jug relevant again?

In today's day and age, where would the purse money come from?

Lower the overnights like Hoosier did when breeders crown came to town?
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 23, 2026, 08:36:55 PM
No money or not important?
Scioto has plenty of $ because of racinos of course
I think alot of the best horses have other races a week and a half before the LBJ
Mostly sire stakes finals
Scioto a week and a half before the LBJ on September 12th has huge stakes races and all of Ohio's sire stakes finals. It will be probably over 3 million in total purses
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Lockedin with Pace on August 23, 2026, 08:38:34 PM
Scioto has plenty of $ because of racinos of course
I think alot of the best horses have other races a week and a half before the LBJ
Mostly sire stakes finals
Scioto a week and a half before the LBJ on September 12th has huge stakes races and all of Ohio's sire stakes finals. It will be probably over 3 million in total purses

The top horses don't run as often now as they used to and most would skip it anyway.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 23, 2026, 08:42:14 PM
Most of the top horses skipped it so they probably discontinued it.
This is the correct answer
Usually only one or two LBJ  eligible horses would run it
Sire stakes finals are more lucrative
Pennsylvania on September 6th
Ohio on September 12th
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: MIKE CAMPBELL on August 23, 2026, 10:33:32 PM
It is ridiculous that it is raced on a Thursday afternoon. They could easily double their exposure if it was on a Saturday afternoon. However, I hear the NFL is considering moving the Super Bowl to Wednesday morning.  ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: toothman on August 23, 2026, 11:11:47 PM
The Metro. $1 Million.  (CA)

The NA Cup  $1 Million. (CA)

The Little Brown Jug


Although the Jug doesnt go for a Million it  separates

the men from the boys if you can get to the 2nd heat/Final

after winning an elim


Very few horses have navigated these 3 races successfully

I like this idea.
Although the Triple Crown was comprised of the Cane, Messenger and Jug,-all half mile tracks-, half mile racing has been reduced to a boring predictable product.

Having a series of sorts raced on different size ovals could be exciting and refreshing.
I remember the International and Realization /Trot raced at what, a mile and a half and they had built in excitement because it was different and rare.
 
Just spitballing here-throwing it out for your consideration
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Trigger on August 23, 2026, 11:17:12 PM
Why call it the triple anything, call it the
Four Crown Jewels of Harness Racing...


1/2, 5/8, 3/4 and 1 mile races  tmbz1

Think big, out of the box, not like your aping someone successful like the t-breds for a fucking failure  ngc3
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Trigger on August 23, 2026, 11:34:43 PM
Why call it the triple anything, call it the
Four Crown Jewels of Harness Racing...


1/2, 5/8, 3/4 and 1 mile races  tmbz1

Think big, out of the box, not like your aping someone successful like the t-breds for a fucking failure  ngc3

Let's say each of the four series is limited to 20 horses.  It starts like a KYD point / money system from when they are 2.

For a separate pool each horse's connections entered has to put up $25,000 per race they race in.

20 horses x 4 races x $25000 = $2,000,000 winner take all.

In addition to the purses.

Which should be $1,000,000 per race.

You win all 4 races you make $4,000,000. ($2mil purses + $2mil bonus)

That will make tv possibly (1 hour event  ngc3) - 4 part series - run every 3 weeks so it wraps up in 9 weeks.

No one horse wins the 4CJ, split it amongst the top 5 point finishers of the series just like a purse.

Colts, geldings, fillies allowed!  ;D
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Brown jug on August 24, 2026, 06:46:20 AM
yes the jug has changed the post position draws for the final which will make it more intriguing
as for the race being on thursday it seems to do just fine , gives them a spot all to themselves without competition against other tracks or sports
the two heat racing is awesome
i find it odd that todays horses are so much more refined and better animals than 20 years ago but apparently cant race 2 heats now ,
the jug must be the final race of any new triple crown, it still draws the most attention both inside and outside the sport

Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: MIKE CAMPBELL on August 24, 2026, 07:47:24 AM
yes the jug has changed the post position draws for the final which will make it more intriguing
as for the race being on thursday it seems to do just fine , gives them a spot all to themselves without competition against other tracks or sports
the two heat racing is awesome
i find it odd that todays horses are so much more refined and better animals than 20 years ago but apparently cant race 2 heats now ,
the jug must be the final race of any new triple crown, it still draws the most attention both inside and outside the sport
Your logic is exactly why Harness Racing is nearly dead.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 24, 2026, 08:18:47 AM
Like I mentioned earlier..it's a combo of racing on a half and the 2 heats that keep horses away from the LBJ. The one thing that would not surprise me and MIGHT happen in my lifetime is that the divisions/ eliminations are raced on a Saturday a week and a half before the LBJ at Scioto and then just the final at Delaware. I would hate to see that happen, and of course the LBJ society and the fair board would adamantly oppose that to happen...just saying would not surprise me.
Also them racing the entire meet during the daytime is stupid..everyone under 65 is at work. That is no way to grow a dying sport. There is no lighting around the track.
Sunday afternoon is fine.. a few days during the week should be a 5 or 6pm post time
Either invest in a lighting system or bring in temporary.
The fairgrounds has a lot of $ on hand now because of the new bed tax
The way they choose to spend it is laughable.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Kenny on August 24, 2026, 08:53:04 AM
Like I mentioned earlier..it's a combo of racing on a half and the 2 heats that keep horses away from the LBJ. The one thing that would not surprise me and MIGHT happen in my lifetime is that the divisions/ eliminations are raced on a Saturday a week and a half before the LBJ at Scioto and then just the final at Delaware. I would hate to see that happen, and of course the LBJ society and the fair board would adamantly oppose that to happen...just saying would not surprise me.
Also them racing the entire meet during the daytime is stupid..everyone under 65 is at work. That is no way to grow a dying sport. There is no lighting around the track.
Sunday afternoon is fine.. a few days during the week should be a 5 or 6pm post time
Either invest in a lighting system or bring in temporary.
The fairgrounds has a lot of $ on hand now because of the new bed tax
The way they choose to spend it is laughable.

Your post is why harness racing is dying. The Jug is a long standing tradition.  The town shuts down including the schools. As harness racing has turned its back on it roots the fans have disappeared. The Jug is the most attended harness race in North America. All of the races which were contested in heats should be restored. The is marketing gold.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 24, 2026, 09:09:39 AM
Your post is why harness racing is dying. The Jug is a long standing tradition.  The town shuts down including the schools. As harness racing has turned its back on it roots the fans have disappeared. The Jug is the most attended harness race in North America. All of the races which were contested in heats should be restored. The is marketing gold.
I know about the schools. I lived here my whole life ngc3
I didn't say I wanted that to happen. I said it would not surprise me if it did
The attendance is half of what it used to be
Trust me I have had my eyes on it in person since 1980
I hated that they got rid of the 3rd heat possibility.
It was gotten rid of to try and attract bigger fields
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: MIKE CAMPBELL on August 24, 2026, 11:56:50 AM
90% of the toothless drunks that attend the Jug don't wager or watch another harness race until the next Jug. Morons that claim it is the most attended harness race are retards, as half are shit faced, don't bet and couldn't tell you who Dexter Dunn is if you gave them 10 chances.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: Lockedin with Pace on August 24, 2026, 12:01:40 PM
Alot of people go there just to drink and stuff their fat faces, probably don't even buy a program or know how to read one.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: rainman2 on August 24, 2026, 12:26:40 PM
The Metro. $1 Million.  (CA)

The NA Cup  $1 Million. (CA)

The Little Brown Jug


Although the Jug doesnt go for a Million it  separates

the men from the boys if you can get to the 2nd heat/Final

after winning an elim


Very few horses have navigated these 3 races successfully

you might as well add a 3rd Canadian race and make it a Canadian triple crown.  There is a Canadian triple crown for t-breds.
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 24, 2026, 06:48:48 PM
Alot of people go there just to drink and stuff their fat faces, probably don't even buy a program or know how to read one.
Correct tmbz1
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 24, 2026, 07:01:26 PM
90% of the toothless drunks that attend the Jug don't wager or watch another harness race until the next Jug. Morons that claim it is the most attended harness race are retards, as half are shit faced, don't bet and couldn't tell you who Dexter Dunn is if you gave them 10 chances.
Mostly true tmbz1
As far as half being shit faced.. its much more then that ngc3
I think the 90% number is a little high..maybe 50 %
I would say half the people are there for the party and half for the racing..and some for both like me.
Kind of like the Derby..in that sense. I do think most people do wager until they can't stumble to a tote machine anymore. Lots of dead $ that day, good for us gamblers.
As far as toothless goes, not sure on that one. I don't stare into other people's yapper ngc3
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: captaintreacherous on August 24, 2026, 09:08:43 PM
I hadnt been to a Jug in years but went a few years

ago....It had to be 95 degrees maybe 100


The 2 heat winners were Captain Albano and

Captains Quarters...both wire to wire.

Jody Jamieson tried to steal it with Captains Quarters

with Albano getting a 2 hole trip and winning.


That was one hot day...I was almost getting sun stroke

outside....

Nijinsky and Legendary Hanover were both 2-5

in their heats

Nijinsky didnt make the final and Legendary did
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: JT on August 24, 2026, 10:22:37 PM
I hadnt been to a Jug in years but went a few years

ago....It had to be 95 degrees maybe 100


The 2 heat winners were Captain Albano and

Captains Quarters...both wire to wire.

Jody Jamieson tried to steal it with Captains Quarters

with Albano getting a 2 hole trip and winning.


That was one hot day...I was almost getting sun stroke

outside....

Nijinsky and Legendary Hanover were both 2-5

in their heats

Nijinsky didnt make the final and Legendary did
I have been there many times like you.. hot as hell
Other times, been there in a winter coat and a toboggan on ngc3
September in Ohio can be both extremes
Title: Re: The Acid test on 2 and 3 year olds are 3 races
Post by: MIKE CAMPBELL on August 24, 2026, 10:25:59 PM
Mostly true tmbz1
As far as half being shit faced.. its much more then that ngc3
I think the 90% number is a little high..maybe 50 %
I would say half the people are there for the party and half for the racing..and some for both like me.
Kind of like the Derby..in that sense. I do think most people do wager until they can't stumble to a tote machine anymore. Lots of dead $ that day, good for us gamblers.
As far as toothless goes, not sure on that one. I don't stare into other people's yapper ngc3
ngc3 ngc3 tmbz1
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