HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Racetime on July 28, 2026, 11:58:19 AM
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If you close half of the Casino's at the Tracks and closed half the Tracks at the other half who's going to be thriving and who's going to be closing ?
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Pacer2 and "G" plan to build their own track and name it THRIVING DOWNS.
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If you close half of the Casino's at the Tracks and closed half the Tracks at the other half who's going to be thriving and who's going to be closing ?
Both may be closing. Tracks provide plenty of support for casinos.
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Both may be closing. Tracks provide plenty of support for casinos.
Just the opposite.
It is a historical and structural fact that racinos heavily subsidize horse racing, not the other way around. The statement "Tracks provide plenty of support for casinos" turns the real-world economic relationship completely on its head.In a racino ecosystem, the highly profitable slot machines, video lottery terminals (VLTs), and table games legally bankroll the struggling live racing operations.
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irrelevant question
states that understand it ensure there is a partnership and a split of funding
remember that casinos are a drain on economic activity, the casinos rake in millions which is withdrawn from the economy for ever and have no economic downstream in the area other than the few people who work there making minimum wage
racetracks and horses have a huge positive beneficial economic impact as the racing itself is a very labor intensive industry providing many economic benefits downstream which i have posted before
please limit response from people who own at least 100% of a horse(s)
not interested in comments from people with no skin in the game
you know who you are
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Spot on Brown Jug.
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irrelevant question
states that understand it ensure there is a partnership and a split of funding
remember that casinos are a drain on economic activity, the casinos rake in millions which is withdrawn from the economy for ever and have no economic downstream in the area other than the few people who work there making minimum wage
racetracks and horses have a huge positive beneficial economic impact as the racing itself is a very labor intensive industry providing many economic benefits downstream which i have posted before
please limit response from people who own at least 100% of a horse(s)
not interested in comments from people with no skin in the game
you know who you are
The casinos are entertainment that people actually want. Casinos support themselves. Racing, cannot support itself without MASSIVE HANDOUTS. Racing turned its back on the customer and the customer is gone. Take that HANDOUT money and use it for roads bridges or schools and you get a much bigger economic benefit and people aka voter actually want those things.
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If it wasn't for the race tracks there would be no casino's. Everybody forgets that.
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You are so wrong. Casinos don't need racetracks to make money, but racetracks need casinos to stay in business.
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You are so wrong. Casinos don't need racetracks to make money, but racetracks need casinos to stay in business.
You are correct!
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Spot on Brown Jug.
I totally agree that people who own horses have an economic impact on the state's economy. If that is the justification for receiving a handout, then the broader picture should be considered.
Does Ohio have more racehorses or non-race horses? How much of this handout, which is intended to promote economic growth, actually leaves the state?
According to the USTA, only 5,534 separate horses started races in Ohio in 2025. I do not know how many of those horses were owned by people from out of state. Clearly, the non-race horse population in Ohio is much larger. I can say that because of the AQHA annual report.
People who own non-race horses also contribute a tremendous amount of money to the economy. All horse owners buy hay and grain, pay veterinarians and farriers, and many own trucks and trailers as well.
This is like claiming that food stamps are great for the economy simply because people spend them on food. That line of thinking does not justify handouts when one group of horse owners requires no subsidies while representing a much larger portion of the horse industry.
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I totally agree that people who own horses have an economic impact on the state's economy. If that is the justification for receiving a handout, then the broader picture should be considered.
Does Ohio have more racehorses or non-race horses? How much of this handout, which is intended to promote economic growth, actually leaves the state?
According to the USTA, only 5,534 separate horses started races in Ohio in 2025. I do not know how many of those horses were owned by people from out of state. Clearly, the non-race horse population in Ohio is much larger. I can say that because of the AQHA annual report.
People who own non-race horses also contribute a tremendous amount of money to the economy. All horse owners buy hay and grain, pay veterinarians and farriers, and many own trucks and trailers as well.
This is like claiming that food stamps are great for the economy simply because people spend them on food. That line of thinking does not justify handouts when one group of horse owners requires no subsidies while representing a much larger portion of the horse industry.
Giving the money to almost anything would boast the economy. Using it for infrastructure has a similar but larger direct impact AND a secondary impact of making business easier. On top of that, people want infrastructure much more than they care about racing. I would propose using the money to reduce taxes. If racing cannot stand on its own, why should it exist? Why should a private business )casino) be required to keep a business (racing) they lose money on? All that land used by racetracks could be put to more valuable uses. The racing industry better figure out a way to support itself or at somepoint it will become much smaller or disappear. Wake up!
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Giving the money to almost anything would boast the economy. Using it for infrastructure has a similar but larger direct impact AND a secondary impact of making business easier. On top of that, people want infrastructure much more than they care about racing. I would propose using the money to reduce taxes. If racing cannot stand on its own, why should it exist? Why should a private business )casino) be required to keep a business (racing) they lose money on? All that land used by racetracks could be put to more valuable uses. The racing industry better figure out a way to support itself or at somepoint it will become much smaller or disappear. Wake up!
100% agree but many people lean on this economic impact it has on agriculture and everything else. I like the idea of using that money to lower taxes. Maybe Pacer can give us his unbiased expert opinion on this.
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Yesterday Pacer2 said Social Security was a handout because if you live long enough you will have received alot more in benefits than you paid in.
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If it wasn't for the race tracks there would be no casino's. Everybody forgets that.
Not true. Casinos exist because people want them. The casinos used the racing industry to get in and they will dump them at some time in the future.
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Yesterday Pacer2 said Social Security was a handout because if you live long enough you will have received alot more in benefits than you paid in.
In a given year, racing gets more money in handouts in one month than it contributes in an entire year. Almost 90% of the purses come from government handouts.
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irrelevant question
states that understand it ensure there is a partnership and a split of funding
remember that casinos are a drain on economic activity, the casinos rake in millions which is withdrawn from the economy for ever and have no economic downstream in the area other than the few people who work there making minimum wage
racetracks and horses have a huge positive beneficial economic impact as the racing itself is a very labor intensive industry providing many economic benefits downstream which i have posted before
please limit response from people who own at least 100% of a horse(s)
not interested in comments from people with no skin in the game
you know who you are
You should learn how business works. You provide a product or service the customers want and they pay for it. Racing provides a product very few people want so it has to depend for 80% or 90% of its revenue from government handouts. Businesses and industries that are not supported by customers ultimately disappear.
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Both may be closing. Tracks provide plenty of support for casinos.
Can I nominate this for "Least Accurate Post of the Year" lol.
Name me one track that is subsidizing a casino!!
The simple fact is plugging in a slot machine is a hell of a lot easier way to separate a fool from his money than running a many acre site with facilities created for crowds many times what show up now. It is just plain inefficient. WIth the exception of a few meets, there is little interest from the general public. I love horse racing, have for over 50 years, and there are only a couple of people alive who have been to more North American race tracks than I have. And i don't see a positive future ahead.
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thanks kenny
you need to widen the lens from which you look at things
many business or services provide benefits more than the bottom line
expand your reach and you will see the economic benefits provided by racing
i guess what you are saying is that the folks in kentucky dont know what they are doing
despite the fact that training centers are opening , farm land is being bought, people are moving there and buying houses etc , racing is the conduit to this , not a stand alone operation
perhaps the folks in kentucky see that a $1 invested in racing provides a significant multiplier effect to the local economy well beyond the $1 invested
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It seems that many people have forgotten that racetracks existed long before casinos did. With the onslaught of casinos in every state, the agreement was that they could open as long as they were tied to racing. Don’t shoot the messenger. Those are just a fact. If the track loses money, that’s the price to be paid for operating a casino and without that racetrack, there would be no casino.
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How about all the states with casinos without racetracks. There aren't that many states left with racetracks. 47 states have casinos, how many states have racetracks, maybe 1/3. What happens when the funding goes away or is reduced for the racetracks, the casinos will still be in business, but some racetracks may be forced to close or race for much cheaper purses.
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How about all the states with casinos without racetracks. There aren't that many states left with racetracks. 47 states have casinos, how many states have racetracks, maybe 1/3. What happens when the funding goes away or is reduced for the racetracks, the casinos will still be in business, but some racetracks may be forced to close or race for much cheaper purses.
the three without casinos...my guess
Hawaii
Utah
Idaho
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Actually there are 4, Hawaii, Utah, Tennessee, and Georgia.
Idaho has Indian casinos, Kansas has both.
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Actually there are 4, Hawaii, Utah, Tennessee, and Georgia.
Idaho has Indian casinos, Kansas has both.
thanks
great info
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it figures Georgia is on the list
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Without casino money, many of the tracks would be toast.
Why would the average person want to bet on racing?
Boxing was huge at one time,now how is that doing?
It's a dead game laddie.
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thanks kenny
you need to widen the lens from which you look at things
many business or services provide benefits more than the bottom line
expand your reach and you will see the economic benefits provided by racing
i guess what you are saying is that the folks in kentucky dont know what they are doing
despite the fact that training centers are opening , farm land is being bought, people are moving there and buying houses etc , racing is the conduit to this , not a stand alone operation
perhaps the folks in kentucky see that a $1 invested in racing provides a significant multiplier effect to the local economy well beyond the $1 invested
If a business/industry does not offer something people want, it must depend on handouts or it will eventually disappear. That is business and economic 101. Why should the government support racing when most the general public could care less it even exists?
KY is throwing big money at racing. That will just kill all the others states unless they do the same. KY can only do what it is doing if the other states do not respond. If the other states respond in kind, the taxpayers will revolt. If KY continues long-term it will destroy racing in the other states. All KY is doing is redistribution money. If people are buying land it is to move from other states to KY. It is a zero sum game.
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Without casino money, many of the tracks would be toast.
Why would the average person want to bet on racing?
Boxing was huge at one time,now how is that doing?
It's a dead game laddie.
Most of the people on here do not grasp the concept. Using Hanover as an example, what is their optimal business decision? They should buy land in KY and move all their broodmares there but keep their stallions in PA. That makes all of their babies duel eligible for both KY and PA. They can then sell off the land in PA maybe for a data center. What KY would gain, PA would lose. If the industry was doing good, purses would not be being subsidized by 80% - 90%.
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Most of the people on here do not grasp the concept. Using Hanover as an example, what is their optimal business decision? They should buy land in KY and move all their broodmares there but keep their stallions in PA. That makes all of their babies duel eligible for both KY and PA. They can then sell off the land in PA maybe for a data center. What KY would gain, PA would lose. If the industry was doing good, purses would not be being subsidized by 80% - 90%.
Horses, horsemen, drivers and owners are making a fortune!
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Horses, horsemen, drivers and owners are making a fortune!
From government handouts. What happens when the voter say enough? Then you will be making 10% of what you are making now. If the voters allow decoupling, you will be making zero.
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From government handouts. What happens when the voter say enough? Then you will be making 10% of what you are making now. If the voters allow decoupling, you will be making zero.
If a planet hits the earth we'll all be dead!
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If a planet hits the earth we'll all be dead!
Thank you for revealing to the world your maturity and intelligence level.
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If a planet hits the earth we'll all be dead!
Maybe we should ask the slots customers if they would prefer that money be taken back and given to them as higher payouts.