HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: whiptherabbit on March 15, 2026, 06:11:35 PM
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Let’s hear from some fellow plopsters on how Mohawk can improve the product they put out!
For starters, I would eliminate the Swinger wager, its absolute bush league showing these pathetic pools on an A track.
Eliminate the pick 6, the pools aren’t big & they dropped the overall wager on the pick 5’s.
There’s plenty of time between races, interview a trainer multiple times per night , even grooms. These people are around the horses all day & know what’s going on.
Interview drivers on the telecast before the show, go over their drives & what they expect from them that night. This adds a little intrigue to the product.
Have guest handicappers either on air or submit picks. Best bets for the night, live longshots, vulnerable favorites etc.
Start fining drivers for ridiculous second quarters (last nights Open) I know some people think all drivers should be fined in said races, but imagine someone pulling first over from third and getting tortured the rest of the way….
Not a regular segment, but have Randy go over different equipment horses wear, or film a groom rigging pacers up compared to trotters etc.
Have scheduled High 5 carry over nights… once the pool gets to 300-500k schedule a mandatory payout on a Saturday night. Let it grow to astronomical levels with mandatory payout outs for North Marrica Cup Night, OSS Super Final nights etc.
Schedule as many claimers as you can, these are competitive races. Write classes in the fall exclusively for grass roots claimers , prospect series claimers… make them optional (owners price them) not specifically 20k etc.
Have a few dedicated nights where they have drivers challenges top 5 WEG drivers vs top 5 B Track winning drivers. Raise money & awareness for finding places for retired Standardbreds etc.
Let’s hear some feedback from other guys on what they believe can improve the product!
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Why not just copy what the big m does? Seems as if they already do most of the items you are suggesting.
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Interview the drivers (mandatory) after unusual drives, i.e. why they didn't pull, better moves, no urging, missed an easy better placing because they gave up...embarrass the shit out of them so we can have a clean product.
Permanently ban the corrupt drivers and trainers.
Replace all the current AGCO officials and watch them closely.
Make all on track happenings information transparent to the viewers, no censoring, omitting anything out.
Keep the amateurs off the track.
That's a start... ;D
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Lower takeout. Unless you bet through a rebate shop, these rates make the track unplayable
Tri 25%
Super 26.5%
Pick 4 25%
Pick 3 26.3%
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#1 Post time should be 7 PM. Who has time to handicap cards at 5PM? I don't want to/sometimes can't be home that early. Easy fix is to cut 2 minutes between each race & end the same time.
#2 A must is improving the driving colony. There is an extreme drop off from James to Doug & Roy & then to everyone else. Cullen is good on his loaded stock. The 1 horse should not be such a big handicap.
#3 lower P4 takeout
Whip has lots of good ideas that I agree with.
PS: Get a race secretary with a clue. There are way to many mismatched fields. I'm aware of the horse shorter. Writing in odds on favorites does nothing for the bettors.
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#1 Post time should be 7 PM. Who has time to handicap cards at 5PM? I don't want to/sometimes can't be home that early. Easy fix is to cut 2 minutes between each race & end the same time.
#2 A must is improving the driving colony. There is an extreme drop off from James to Doug & Roy & then to everyone else. Cullen is good on his loaded stock. The 1 horse should not be such a big handicap.
#3 lower P4 takeout
Whip has lots of good ideas that I agree with.
PS: Get a race secretary with a clue. There are way to many mismatched fields. I'm aware of the horse shorter. Writing in odds on favorites does nothing for the bettors.
1 - They are moving to a later post time pretty shortly (can't recall the exact date) but also - it's already way later than advertised
2 - I don't think the track themselves can control this (driving colony). I keep hearing Mark McD is heading there. He may be a little past his prime but I do think he may shake it up some over there. In terms of the post 1 handicap - it is horrible for trotters specifically.
your PS: this is a double-edged sword. I get your point, but if you don't write horses in, you can't fill cards. Some pretty big prices have come out of scenarios like this lately.
I think Mohawk does a rather good job of creating classes to get horses on the grounds. Certainly better than a lot of stateside racing.
I watch a lot of Mohawk racing, and it's probably the track I bet most frequently (though I am not big gambler). Some of the things you mention above contribute to why I bet there frequently, because you can bet around a lot.
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Another thing is to have Chad announcing every night. He is the best announcer and could handicap too. When I played years ago Chad was sharp in the studio.
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#1 Post time should be 7 PM. Who has time to handicap cards at 5PM? I don't want to/sometimes can't be home that early. Easy fix is to cut 2 minutes between each race & end the same time.
#2 A must is improving the driving colony. There is an extreme drop off from James to Doug & Roy & then to everyone else. Cullen is good on his loaded stock. The 1 horse should not be such a big handicap.
#3 lower P4 takeout
Whip has lots of good ideas that I agree with.
PS: Get a race secretary with a clue. There are way to many mismatched fields. I'm aware of the horse shorter. Writing in odds on favorites does nothing for the bettors.
I left out Mcclure. He belongs with Doug and Louis.
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Another thing is to have Chad announcing every night. He is the best announcer and could handicap too. When I played years ago Chad was sharp in the studio.
100% agreed. I really liked Ken M. as well.
I think I'm in the minority here, but I really appreciate Randy's insight. Not everything related to gambling is tangible and I think he brings an experience a lot of the others don't have.
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Helping to maintain or boos the horse population is tough, especially with so many tracks running shortened dates each year. However, the grass roots horses should hit up every track (I understand some not wanting to truck to Ottawa) more exposure to other tracks & create a 4 year old & 5 year old grass roots program to keep some horses here. 6-8 legs with finals 75-100k. This would be too hard doing the same with gold types as numbers are next to nothing end of three year old campaigns.
As long as the Canadian dollar is in the toilet, the horses will keep being sold to the states, hard not to.
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Drivers, drivers, drivers and trainers. The human component of harness racing is the only hope to breathe any life into the sport. Beyond that, it is a band-aid on cancer.
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I've been playing WEG races with 95% of my handle for about 10 years starting when Illinois racing went into the tank.
Lots of good ideas so far. I would like to see the psychological profile of anyone who bets swingers regularly. Clearly the worst wagering idea ever.
I'd like to see an experiment into fixed odds wagering. Maybe one race a night until it proves to be a success or bust.
Agree there are distinct tiers in the Mohawk driving colony. But isn't it like that at most, if not all, other tracks?
I'm sick of the T-bred "experts" commenting on harness racing. I like Randy but he thinks like a horseman and not a gambler. Like Chad as both an announcer and analyst. Rallis is my favorite. Really sharp dude! Liked Kenny and Rob Reid. Jason Portuondo seemed like a nice guy. Poor capper and obviously a DEI hire.
Too much time between races, take out is excessive. The almighty dollar rules. Greedy bastards.
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Good topic,,,,,,,, Change racing surface,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, BECOME A LEGIT SPORT AND TALK TRUTHS instead of hiding truths,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Get people like football and basketball who live and die the sport to make comments,,,,,,,,,,,,Stagger the gate and like trigger says get AGCO out of game and put people in who care,,,,,,,,, Fire all management and i mean all,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Judges can not have any friendships in the game and no ex jocks in the game can become judges,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I played every day for 50 years and no longer look at the product and find the pre game show insulting and can not relate to these people,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Stop betting with 1 minute to post because no one is blind and sees perfect late money,,,,,,,,,,,, Have a panel of paid gamblers to advise the stupid suits who lie and say everything is ok,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Get rid of race secretary,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, STOP ALL HOLES AND FRIENDSHIP THAT MAKE SOFT RACING,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, There is a video online were GARY STEVANS and jERRY BAILEY SAY friendships amongst drivers is bad for the game and at Weg they are closer than real family,,,,,,,,,,,,, I am one to believe that a hungry person who steals food to survive is not the guy to go after but the well off guy robbing the poor needs harsh penalties,,, like judge FRANK DI CAPRIO SAID ITS EASY TO MAKE CORRECT DECISIONS just use your head,,,,,,,,,,And last to me this topic is shocking because i never believed this poster gave one crap about the industry and was sure he was an industry guy but i may be wrong as he is posting something that matters and i did not see it coming.
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Wow i just read many comments and i can not lie when reading i felt like this site has no real gamblers these days and was very unhappy in things i read and see no hope with these shocking posts that do not deal with issues,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I wanted to read one comment about the late money or computer groups and read zero comments,,,,,,,,,,,,, No one is winning and that number makes it a stupid game and any overlay on the board is dead money and extremely low value horses win way to often,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, i think i am wrong after reading this topic because you need hard core players to chime in and this site has none that i see, The way the game is going now might help as everyone i know is quitting and this lets pretend its healthy can not go on forever and that be be good when they all lose their jobs, James and Carmen and the boys are to me all crime bosses who think they are great for the game when they were their tuxedos to the O BRIENS, its a B movie these days and the actors are making A list money.
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I've been playing WEG races with 95% of my handle for about 10 years starting when Illinois racing went into the tank.
Lots of good ideas so far. I would like to see the psychological profile of anyone who bets swingers regularly. Clearly the worst wagering idea ever.
I'd like to see an experiment into fixed odds wagering. Maybe one race a night until it proves to be a success or bust.
Agree there are distinct tiers in the Mohawk driving colony. But isn't it like that at most, if not all, other tracks?
I'm sick of the T-bred "experts" commenting on harness racing. I like Randy but he thinks like a horseman and not a gambler. Like Chad as both an announcer and analyst. Rallis is my favorite. Really sharp dude! Liked Kenny and Rob Reid. Jason Portuondo seemed like a nice guy. Poor capper and obviously a DEI hire.
Too much time between races, take out is excessive. The almighty dollar rules. Greedy bastards.
Jason Portuondo became a judge. Some nights he's judging the races you're wagering on. He's been at the the track since he was he was a kid. I used to rub one for his uncle, Maurice.
DEI hire, what a cracker POS to say
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DEI hire, what a cracker POS to say
I thought the same thing. I’ll rephrase your statement a bit:
What a trumpian/maga/racist thing to say!
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Jason Portuondo became a judge. Some nights he's judging the races you're wagering on. He's been at the the track since he was he was a kid. I used to rub one for his uncle, Maurice.
DEI hire, what a cracker POS to say
tmbz1
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Randy is fine if he's the colour guy but you have to pair him with a gambler-centric figure. Nobody out there watching gives two fucks if a certain trainer is a good guy. Race office is a complete disaster, they haven't ever had a quality person and that's going back to Barry Hewson. They are just dumb and only got by because things were different from 1970-2005 with thousands of horses and 15 other tracks racing full cards as well. The new kid may be worse than Tony and that's saying something although Tony only took the gig to make ends meet not because he had any passion or thought he could fix the product. McClinchy is another great guy but other than ensuring he's out there every time a major milestone is reached, he's busy making sure nobody says a bad word about the product. The WEG board are invisible and always have been so don't expect that to change anytime soon. The food and beverage is beyond a hard pass. The judges are incompetent and don't give a fuck so there's no integrity which translates to the gambler not being protected. If you don't have that, you have nothing. Again, they are riddled with really nice guys like Dorion, Miller and Mike with Jason and Reid soon to be their replacements but nothing will change. They will just continue to collect their government paycheques. Ditto for Billy O, WEG personal replacement to Jimmy Whelan and basically a conduit to get the horsemen's association to rubber-stamp their agenda. How's that working out for the horsemen? I've been around long enough to known Tom Joy, have lunch with Charles Juravinski and have numerous calls with Flemming. There's an old saying that goes something like this: those that created the problem shouldn't have a seat at the table in trying to fix the problems. Unfortunately that's not the case and it's only going to get worse. Wish I had a more bullish take on things up there as it was always the gold standard for years.
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Wow i just read many comments and i can not lie when reading i felt like this site has no real gamblers these days and was very unhappy in things i read and see no hope with these shocking posts that do not deal with issues,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I wanted to read one comment about the late money or computer groups and read zero comments,,,,,,,,,,,,, No one is winning and that number makes it a stupid game and any overlay on the board is dead money and extremely low value horses win way to often,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, i think i am wrong after reading this topic because you need hard core players to chime in and this site has none that i see, The way the game is going now might help as everyone i know is quitting and this lets pretend its healthy can not go on forever and that be be good when they all lose their jobs, James and Carmen and the boys are to me all crime bosses who think they are great for the game when they were their tuxedos to the O BRIENS, its a B movie these days and the actors are making A list money.
as most here are aware, I have been saying this for years--- stop the betting after the race starts
limit the CAW from entering any pool with 1 minute until post time
put up on the feed how much of the pool is CAW(we know this wont happen)
eliminate all talking heads except for Randy speaking for 1-2 minutes about 5 minutes before the race starts
do not allow Elissa Blowe on air--she is worthless and adds no insight
eliminate all jackpot wagers
interviewing drivers before and after the race would be a good idea
stop the lag between races and race on time--if they say 6:15 PM then start the gate moving at 6:14
allow the worst horse in the race post #6 and the 2nd worst horse post #5
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Randy is fine if he's the colour guy but you have to pair him with a gambler-centric figure. Nobody out there watching gives two fucks if a certain trainer is a good guy. Race office is a complete disaster, they haven't ever had a quality person and that's going back to Barry Hewson. They are just dumb and only got by because things were different from 1970-2005 with thousands of horses and 15 other tracks racing full cards as well. The new kid may be worse than Tony and that's saying something although Tony only took the gig to make ends meet not because he had any passion or thought he could fix the product. McClinchy is another great guy but other than ensuring he's out there every time a major milestone is reached, he's busy making sure nobody says a bad word about the product. The WEG board are invisible and always have been so don't expect that to change anytime soon. The food and beverage is beyond a hard pass. The judges are incompetent and don't give a fuck so there's no integrity which translates to the gambler not being protected. If you don't have that, you have nothing. Again, they are riddled with really nice guys like Dorion, Miller and Mike with Jason and Reid soon to be their replacements but nothing will change. They will just continue to collect their government paycheques. Ditto for Billy O, WEG personal replacement to Jimmy Whelan and basically a conduit to get the horsemen's association to rubber-stamp their agenda. How's that working out for the horsemen? I've been around long enough to known Tom Joy, have lunch with Charles Juravinski and have numerous calls with Flemming. There's an old saying that goes something like this: those that created the problem shouldn't have a seat at the table in trying to fix the problems. Unfortunately that's not the case and it's only going to get worse. Wish I had a more bullish take on things up there as it was always the gold standard for years.
GREAT POST,,,,,,,,,,RARE ON THIS SITE,,, ALSO PAPS POST VERY GOOD,
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Cut the CAWs off at 1 min to post
Get rid of the tbred commentators. Blowe and Bratt add NOTHING of substance at all. Rallis is a gambler, yet there he is on the Meadowlands broadcast.
Randy "ya know" Waples adds too much fluff. EVERONE is a great trainer....we get it.
Food and Beverage is a joke.
Run the races on time. People (and CAWs) will adjust in time. Saturday night went past midnight due to the Taurasi situation.
It's funny how the races are on time when it's snowing or raining.
Stop this nonsense about grading races. These aren't tbreds.
And what the hell is all this advertising the stakes schedule about. People who bet the product will bet. We don't need 5 reminders a night about the Fan Hanover date.
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IMO There are some very good ideas so far in this thread. Hopefully the management there will catch wind of them!
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lots of great comments and we all know they have been surfaced before and nothing changes
its a shit show and will continue to be one
from a gambling perspective a very easy fix is to improve the wagering product as follows
-the only $.20 wager should be on the pick 5 ( and i could easily maker it a minimum $.50)
-for the jackpot high 5 $.20 is fine but you have to pay of something to people who get the correct sequence and carry over the rest
-get rid of the swinger bet, stupidest wager ever
-minimum wager on pick 3 is $1
-minimum wager of pick 4 is $.50
-minimum wager on tri is $.50
you get the idea, if people cant afford to wager they wont , but setting up your wagering menu to appeal to the "supposed" newbies who bet nothing while screwing over the real hard core gamblers is stupid
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Great insight everyone! Honestly there are lots of great ideas, many should be implemented to help improve the product. I completely agree with shutting off the betting even when the countdown clocks get to 30 seconds, then you can see before the gate folds who’s likely to mess your pick 5 wager on one you left off the ticket.
I liked Jason Pirtuondo personally, good guy knows horses. It’s been said before but the horseplayers journal used to be great to read when Middleton Sr did it, Reid did a good job as well. The general public just likes getting more information, the more details the better.
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Middleton is missed mostly but I'll acknowledge the Reid guy was very good as well. That new windbag Garnett sounds like a wanna be clown and although Jason is a nice guy with a little knowledge of the game, he's no sharpie. Nothing is going to change up there anytime soon. I mean they are still going with the swinger bet--how fucking dumb. Also their on air analysts with their $8 dollar pick 5 bets, what a dumpster fire.
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ron wapples needs to be fired
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Great insight everyone! Honestly there are lots of great ideas, many should be implemented to help improve the product. I completely agree with shutting off the betting even when the countdown clocks get to 30 seconds, then you can see before the gate folds who’s likely to mess your pick 5 wager on one you left off the ticket.
I liked Jason Pirtuondo personally, good guy knows horses. It’s been said before but the horseplayers journal used to be great to read when Middleton Sr did it, Reid did a good job as well. The general public just likes getting more information, the more details the better.
I remember the Journal when Mike Hamilton wrote it...he was the gold standard..with Reid a close 2nd..there was a guy Paul Gangle I think his name was,,, terrible... moved to Australia i believe
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I remember the Journal when Mike Hamilton wrote it...he was the gold standard..with Reid a close 2nd..there was a guy Paul Gangle I think his name was,,, terrible... moved to Australia i believe
Hamilton was very good..but I feel Reid was simply outstanding--especially with horses shipping in from the B tracks
Barnsdale sometimes is way, way off but isn't the worst one they could have doing it
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I remember the Journal when Mike Hamilton wrote it...he was the gold standard..with Reid a close 2nd..there was a guy Paul Gangle I think his name was,,, terrible... moved to Australia i believe
Greg Gangle
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Greg Gangle
yep..I stand corrected
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Hamilton always used to love the qualifiers where each quarter got the horse was faster then the previous quarter, nice guy & loved the races. I’m pretty sure he used to post here years ago infrequently.
Even having Randy answer viewer questions once a week (Mondays) on the preshow would be pretty cool. Have viewers submit them via email or from Twitter? Ask him if he ever saw so many happy faces as when DREAMFAIR VOGEL aired first start Robinson at gigantic odds after being in the barn only a few days. How cold did it have to get to to book off qualifying Robinson horses at Flamboro etc.
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Funny how this just landed on Standardbredcanad a.
https://standardbredcanada.ca/news/3-16-26/last-call-trot-wants-your-opinion.html
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That's been up for a ouole weeks now.
Mike Hamilton had zero imagination.
Reid was easily the best one, but like Portuando he found out that being a judge paid way more than WEG.
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That's been up for a ouole weeks now.
Mike Hamilton had zero imagination.
Reid was easily the best one, but like Portuando he found out that being a judge paid way more than WEG.
Mike hamilton did not gamble and told me one day that he is no good at placing his money but truth is he had no clue and never picked a double did get winner,,,,,,,,,,,,, Now the nicest man i ever met at the track was Robs dad who like me was a lifer but he was always in a good mood and over the years robby has very much turned into a double of his father,,,,,,,,,,,, Robby basically stopped playing a while back except for carryovers and now has a different path but far from a great capper and i like rob very much but great far from it but none of this will make racing a real betting sport.
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Hamilton always used to love the qualifiers where each quarter got the horse was faster then the previous quarter, nice guy & loved the races. I’m pretty sure he used to post here years ago infrequently.
Even having Randy answer viewer questions once a week (Mondays) on the preshow would be pretty cool. Have viewers submit them via email or from Twitter? Ask him if he ever saw so many happy faces as when DREAMFAIR VOGEL aired first start Robinson at gigantic odds after being in the barn only a few days. How cold did it have to get to to book off qualifying Robinson horses at Flamboro etc.
Mike used to post on Harness Driver. I had Dreamfair Vogel too with Randy driving. Randy posted on Harness driver too at the start of it. Remember Whip?
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People are betting their money with someone allowed into pools and take all value out of the pools being the groups, Its a 25 percent rake and they are giving an advantage to a group to help them make huge money now is this fffff--ing real or a joke and WHIP show me the posts that talk real issues, ITS REALLY hard for me to read these posts as mike HAMILTON is no issue but today the real rake being 40-60 percent with the groups involved seeing all bets till race is off is pure cheating. ,,,,,,,,,, i could care less about guys setting up horses as most have patterns that i will pick up on but 3-1 to 1-5 leaving gate is not beatable, SC wants opinions from anyone and that makes no fuckinf sense but its the way they work and thats stupid being stupid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I believe weg is in trouble as the numbers are going to drop huge this year and following years and those in charge know zero. ,,,,,,,,go look at VEGAS and you will see busted out gamblers in management but knowing exactly what is needed to make the gambler happy,,,,,,,,,, Just listen to the joy on a plane from players who got comped for great meals and seen very good shows and treated with respect and walk home broke but a happy broke. The biggest issues are two being the lack of money to protect us the gamblers with allowing groups to see our wagers and soft racing that weg judges and management are at fault. RACE SECRETARY NEEDS TO GO KNOW.
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for 50 years i played Mohawk and 99 percent of races i was never to far off on odds at the end of a race but today i see 2-5 shots that i never saw being close to 2-5 and its simple that people need to be fired from Judges to the AGCO TO MANAGEMENT and that will not happen because they will get raises in pay before being fired,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,At WEG the workers being the horsemen run the show and its a shit show with underlay after underlay winning,,,,,,,,,,,,, The harness game believes chalks are the be all and end all and even announcers with their wins like a 2-5 should call that makes no sense and when is the last time at the TB game that an announcer said wins like a 2-5 should and thats never.,,,,,,,,,,,,, Breeders crown day in harness racing and breeders cup day in TB racing the two biggest days and in the TB game if you have a huge day you can win a bus and in the harness game you can win a bus ticket and thats the truth
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Get rid of the fair start rule, but keep the pole and use it as a betting cut off point.