HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: truthisgrey on December 12, 2025, 02:49:09 PM
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Amazing that it’s taken this long for this to happen:
https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/suit-alleges-standardbred-auctioneer-failed-to-notice-45k-reserve-then-reopened-bidding-after-hammer-fell-at-15k/
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Amazing that it’s taken this long for this to happen:
https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/suit-alleges-standardbred-auctioneer-failed-to-notice-45k-reserve-then-reopened-bidding-after-hammer-fell-at-15k/
Professional auction companies, auctioneers typically have insurance. The part of the policy that covers this instance is called E & O (Errors and Omissions).
They screwed the seller, the minimum price was $45k they were willing to accept. Hammer down at $15k by accident, and lot of other errors at that auction too. Not sure even if the seller signed a no hold liable, I imagine the judge would toss.
My Bet - The auction company will be ordered to pay if insurance doesn't. Shocking they don't take responsibility and force the seller to take them to court, just apologize and pay, it's your rep.
Then again it's harness racing, corruption is rewarded! ;D
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Just pay it, it's not worth the bad publicity. Ya fucked up, just admit it.
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So how do you prove that neither the auctioneer or spotters had recognized a bid? The other bidder could have been in a different room,on the phone or online. I can guarantee that none of the bid spotters are going to testify against the auction company. And the owner suing is respected? By who? He employs every dirtbag trainer that will take a horse for him.
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This is disgusting and pathetic by the suing party.
The reserve was $45k. An honest mistake was made hammering the horse for $15k.
To believe it is your right to capitalize on this mistake and get the horse at an undeserving discount is greedy, selfish, and self-aggrandizing
I hope they win the lawsuit, get the horse, and the horse doesn't make a single penny for them. Misers.
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This is disgusting and pathetic by the suing party.
The reserve was $45k. An honest mistake was made hammering the horse for $15k.
To believe it is your right to capitalize on this mistake and get the horse at an undeserving discount is greedy, selfish, and self-aggrandizing
I hope they win the lawsuit, get the horse, and the horse doesn't make a single penny for them. Misers.
Was just a mistake?, auctioneer told one participant take as long as you want to make a bid.
That's a NO NO NO!
Calling it a mistake is giving them the auctioneer the benefit of the doubt.
The auction wasn't kosher.
Seller wasn't selling for $15k, not your money, if they don't want to be shorted....
Fucking crooked Harness racing! ngc3
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The horse is sold at the fall of the hammer to the man in the back! End of the story. The auction company will lose (unless this is heard before a democrat federal judge), but this is purely a state case. If the horse died leaving the auction block, the man in the back would have been on the hook.
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The Good Guy,that turned out to be not so good when this sale horses sire tested positive for flying testosterone. The case finally adjudicated. Holloway lost.I think Hot Lead found out they sold him a steroid stallion syndicate share and wants his money back. Why would this Val Dor back door and wait two months to want the horse for free. The plot will untwist with ambulance chasing attorneys and the not so good guy trainer. Who will get this sting from the "Perfect Sting?"
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How about the sale company faking bids and walking the price to 44k? Happens all the time and is shady af
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Where is the filly now?
Is it in training?
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if they would post the reserve before hand this would never happen
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if they would post the reserve before hand this would never happen
Can't, likely wouldn't be competitive.
To the average person a race horse might not have any absolute value, like real estate, precious gems, art, classic cars...supply / demand and their respective market and the economy dictate.
Where as a pure 1 lb bar of gold has absolute value (spot price) in economic trading markets - reflects the same price for everyone in the world.
The auctioneer tries to estimate the fair market value (FMV) before hand.
If it is in line with the Reserve, then the bidding starts at the lowest, typically about 50% of that Reserve.
All of which is totally discretionary despite in line with industry standards.
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wait, did someone say an honest mistake was made at an auction
now that would be a first
sales company ( david reid) should have acknowledged the mistake and given the seller the $30k difference
for all the money they make doing very little for the industry its the least they could do
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wait, did someone say an honest mistake was made at an auction
now that would be a first
sales company ( david reid) should have acknowledged the mistake and given the seller the $30k difference
for all the money they make doing very little for the industry its the least they could do
Couldn't have said it better myself. The amount of sheninangans that goes on at two sales in particular is outrageous. Fathom bids are part of the fabric of sales, I've seen it hundreds of times where all of a sudden the 40K bid isn't real and they have to retreat back to 30K. And they don't care two shits if they get exposed from time to time as they have all the control. Just like the folks at OnGait selling all their broadmares now, they have changed the starting price already and it's only been a day. Nobody wants to bid on those things as they know those guys can see who bidding, how many clicks/views a particular mare has, and everything else that goes on behind the scenes. No fucking integrity in the game and I've see lots, including a certain horse being entered into a certain sale with a known heart defect. That sale company told the poor buyer 'too bad' when things went south a week after the sale. And that person had never sold one of their horses EVER at a yearling sale, so figure it out but know they washed their hands and got their lawyers to rewrite the sale agreement.
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The auctioneer is allowed to reopen the auction if there’s a tie bid. It’s going to come down to a legal decision if a reserve is a bid or not. Everyone at the auction knows there are reserves on some horses. Buyer beware.
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I would love to see the auctioneers catalog. That should show all the reserves.. Years ago I bid on a horse to $24,000. They asked $26,000 I walked away and they were yelling “ the guy didn’t bid, you were in at $24,000 , right ?. “. I said no, lets try $12, 000 and they knocked it down to me and he turned out to be a decent horse.
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what do you mean buyer beware, ??how does that fit in this case
the only buyer bid $15k , was the last bid and was awarded the horse as he should have been
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what do you mean buyer beware, ??how does that fit in this case
the only buyer bid $15k , was the last bid and was awarded the horse as he should have been
The auctioneer made a mistake in not recognizing the reserve immediately but there was a reserve put on the horse by its owner. The owner has right to sell his horse at what he thinks it worth not what the buyer is willing to pay.Reserves are common in all auctions. Buyers need to be aware that going to the auction that there could be a reserve on a horse they are bidding on. Buyer beware.
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The auctioneer made a mistake in not recognizing the reserve immediately but there was a reserve put on the horse by its owner. The owner has right to sell his horse at what he thinks it worth not what the buyer is willing to pay.Reserves are common in all auctions. Buyers need to be aware that going to the auction that there could be a reserve on a horse they are bidding on. Buyer beware.
Why don't they just set a minimum bid at the reserve price?
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Why don't they just set a minimum bid at the reserve price?
Because they want to screw the buyer. Buyers would back off if they knew some of the actual reserves. This is why I said buyer beware because you never know who you’re bidding against. It’s not just horse auctions either major auction houses have reserves that aren’t disclosed before the auction starts.
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The conditions of this sale say's "TITLE PASSES TO THE BUYER AT THE FALL OF THE HAMMER, AT WHICH TIME ALL RISK OF INJURY OR LOSS AND ALL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE HORSE PASSES TO THE BUYER"! All in Capitol letters!!!!
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Because they want to screw the buyer. Buyers would back off if they knew some of the actual reserves. This is why I said buyer beware because you never know who you’re bidding against. It’s not just horse auctions either major auction houses have reserves that aren’t disclosed before the auction starts.
Screw the buyer? ngc3
Since 500 BC this type bait and switch works for this with the worst, disappointment not a screwing. ngc3
When you have something to sell ($5 ngc3)...You Make the RULES! ngc3
You have NO ANSWERS THE ANSWER ! ngc3
Your parting gift... ;D
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLLHgxin1Ezk4-ASDiWek2ruR9TcNsSbuFJA&s)
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The conditions of this sale say's "TITLE PASSES TO THE BUYER AT THE FALL OF THE HAMMER, AT WHICH TIME ALL RISK OF INJURY OR LOSS AND ALL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE HORSE PASSES TO THE BUYER"! All in Capitol letters!!!!
It also states sellers have a right to put a reserve on that doesn’t have to be disclosed. Also states auctioneer can reopen bidding if there’s a dispute between two bidders. As I stated before the court will have to decide if a reserve put on by the owner is considered a bidder.
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It also states sellers have a right to put a reserve on that doesn’t have to be disclosed. Also states auctioneer can reopen bidding if there’s a dispute between two bidders. As I stated before the court will have to decide if a reserve put on by the owner is considered a bidder.
ngc3
Thank YOU VERY VERY VERY Much The Answer... ngc3
A case in court already, you have now stated the court will have to decide!
What would we do without your impeccable wisdom here? ngc3
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The auctioneer made a mistake in not recognizing the reserve immediately but there was a reserve put on the horse by its owner. The owner has right to sell his horse at what he thinks it worth not what the buyer is willing to pay.Reserves are common in all auctions. Buyers need to be aware that going to the auction that there could be a reserve on a horse they are bidding on. Buyer beware.
At a AUCTION the seller has ONE BID !!! BUT in the disclosures it states they can bid so it becomes a show and sale. The easiest way to get around this is to have someone sign for the seller if they bid the horse in. In that The easiest is to give the auctioneer a reserve and the auctioneer takes air bids. Sometimes he or the other bidder backs out or they announce 2 people in at same Price.. If they are bidding for themselves it is reported as not sold. If the reserve is not attained RNA is reported.
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As far as right and wrong, the auctions terms and conditions will apply. It's an estoppel. Maybe something that happened during the auction will void/supersede that. Maybe. But I do know one thing---nobody here knows that, nor does anyone know exactly what happened. Like a$$holes, everyone has an opinion. Me, I think the auction company made a mistake and tried to cover it. That might be where they have their problem. Who knows.
As far as the plaintiff, Marty Granoff is one of the most liked, well-respected, and class individuals in the sport and business. He's been in this business for over 40 years, and has been a long time partner with both George Segal and Ted Gewertz. I am sure plenty of hecklers here will have a problem with who he has used as a trainer, but what else is new, LOL.
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Because they want to screw the buyer. Buyers would back off if they knew some of the actual reserves. This is why I said buyer beware because you never know who you’re bidding against. It’s not just horse auctions either major auction houses have reserves that aren’t disclosed before the auction starts.
Screw the buyer? It is the buyers responsibility to decide what the product is worth to them. This will come down to the wannabe buyer proving that there wasn’t a second bidder. It was a Lex the delay could have been another bidder in the back that thought they won.
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The consignor could be in the crowd and be bidding online. Somehow the auctioneer missed the reserve bid. Then the coverup began and the horse was run up to an unbelievable $44,000, the consignors reserve. Long run with probably no one bidding but consignor.
If you were to watch the entire (sale) you would see several if not many, instances where this happens but is successfully worked around by a professional sale conductor, not to be confused as an auctioneer.
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It also states sellers have a right to put a reserve on that doesn’t have to be disclosed. Also states auctioneer can reopen bidding if there’s a dispute between two bidders. As I stated before the court will have to decide if a reserve put on by the owner is considered a bidder.
A reserve would only be a bid if it was recognized by the auctioneer! And it wasn't, the horse was hammered sold to the bidder in the back.
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A Used Horse Sale went badly.
What a surprise.
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Ever notice the seller or his agent sits in the booth next to the pedigree reader or salesman (auctioneer) ? That person can simply say yes to an asking price or be more subtile like putting his hands on the desk as long as he wants the auctioneer to go on, take them off when he is done.
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The people that try to justify the games certain breeders play at the sales, are the same people that justify trainers that win at outrageously high rates. Why not give everyone an electronic device before the horse goes into the sales ring that has an interest, you press your device and if you see your corresponding number on the board, then you're the highest bidder. Sounds simple because it is but they will never do it because that way they couldn't fleece the millionaires.
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You don’t think the smart sellers would just pay someone to register and bid with your electronic device. WTF. I still don’t understand why you think anyone is getting fleeced. Just like with boats, if you think it is too much buy the next one.
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You comment makes no sense, anyone bidding with an electronic device would be responsible and every bid could be tracked digitally. That's the professional way to conduct a sale, if a consignor or breeder want to bid up their horse so be it. But when the hammer falls the horse goes to the highest bidder and if they forget to press the button or their consignor forgets to that's on them and no circus and lawsuits. I'm all for breeders placing reserves or buying back their horses if they are not happy with what the market offers but it must be done in a fair manner for the market. You cannot run up horses and play games when people are told they are the highest bidder. Integrity is everything at a horse sale and unfortunately too many breeders have none.
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You comment makes no sense, anyone bidding with an electronic device would be responsible and every bid could be tracked digitally. That's the professional way to conduct a sale, if a consignor or breeder want to bid up their horse so be it. But when the hammer falls the horse goes to the highest bidder and if they forget to press the button or their consignor forgets to that's on them and no circus and lawsuits. I'm all for breeders placing reserves or buying back their horses if they are not happy with what the market offers but it must be done in a fair manner for the market. You cannot run up horses and play games when people are told they are the highest bidder. Integrity is everything at a horse sale and unfortunately too many breeders have none.
tmbz1
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good points Q
with todays technology there is no reason to be running auctions they way they were 30 years or more ago
i know they have the online bidding but putting the live auction in the hands of bid spotter most of whom seem to be over 70 is not as good idea
add in that it allows the auction house to fleece bids and there is no need for it anymore
its all for show and manipulation
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You comment makes no sense, anyone bidding with an electronic device would be responsible and every bid could be tracked digitally. That's the professional way to conduct a sale, if a consignor or breeder want to bid up their horse so be it. But when the hammer falls the horse goes to the highest bidder and if they forget to press the button or their consignor forgets to that's on them and no circus and lawsuits. I'm all for breeders placing reserves or buying back their horses if they are not happy with what the market offers but it must be done in a fair manner for the market. You cannot run up horses and play games when people are told they are the highest bidder. Integrity is everything at a horse sale and unfortunately too many breeders have none.
Agreed
What is the legitimate purpose of a reserve?
Why not just set a minimum bid at what would have been the reserve price?
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good points Q
with todays technology there is no reason to be running auctions they way they were 30 years or more ago
i know they have the online bidding but putting the live auction in the hands of bid spotter most of whom seem to be over 70 is not as good idea
add in that it allows the auction house to fleece bids and there is no need for it anymore
its all for show and manipulation
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
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Agreed
What is the legitimate purpose of a reserve?
Why not just set a minimum bid at what would have been the reserve price?
Great idea. The sale (auction) would be over in one day.
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Why not just advertise the price online. Because sellers want the most for their products. Auctions have been around forever and always will be. Nothing better than 2 rich fools both wanting your horse
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Why not just advertise the price online. Because sellers want the most for their products. Auctions have been around forever and always will be. Nothing better than 2 rich fools both wanting your horse
Nobody has an issue with that scenario. It's when there's only one rich fool bidding and the other is the breeder and consignor running him up. But i get it, you're not for progress.
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Have any of you ever bought anything on EBay? It happens there too. Thoroughbred auctions are worse with agents involved. This isn’t unique to standardbred auctions.
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Have any of you ever bought anything on EBay? It happens there too. Thoroughbred auctions are worse with agents involved. This isn’t unique to standardbred auctions.
Throw in car auctions,estate auctions, etc. a good auctioneer knows how much they can push any bidder. And they work on commissions so they gonna push all they can. The one you call a fool has made their own decision on how much the product is worth and is happy to get it for that price. No matter what the people here think
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For those few who believe that the sales ring is an efficient market, so be it. For the many who know the games go on, either you don't play, or you play the best you can against a stacked deck. It's not every horse, but it's far from none of them. In this case here, the auction company got caught making a mistake. They tried to cover it and make it look legit. It wasn't. Even if there was a legit buyer the second time around, and a legit underbidder, etc.-----it doesn't matter. There should not have been a second time around. Not in this case. The horse should have been RNA.