HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: The Answer on October 28, 2025, 11:00:59 PM
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Definitely downplaying the effect on wagering. Would like to know what % each harness track allows them to wager.
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/288225/elite-turf-club-president-on-computer-assisted-wagering
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Not surprising that they say that they CAWs really only hurt the really good human (retail) players.
We will see how that holds up in court. Their position is every day, loser gamblers are gonna lose with or without CAWs so what does it matter to them. These arent the people complaining. Very crummy mess these tracks got themselves in.
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Definitely downplaying the effect on wagering. Would like to know what % each harness track allows them to wager.
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/288225/elite-turf-club-president-on-computer-assisted-wagering
Very interesting, thanks for sharing
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This was a good read. tmbz1
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CAWs account for roughly 50% of the handle at all tracks--whether it be tbred or harness
if bettors see big pools-they think that is a good thing-when indeed the opposite is true
when 50% of the handle isn't human-and those bets come in way after the race starts....the bettors have little chance and their pockets are getting picked every race
if you want to avoid CAW play-bet Oaklawn Park-the only major tbred track that doesn't allow CAW action into their pools
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the bettors have little chance and their pockets are getting picked every race
That goes for all betting in every sport! ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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50% of handle at buggy tracks? Doubt that. What is your source?
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Source: Thoroughbred Daily News https://share.google/a8IjJvpmqfjbA7IMA
This doesn't differentiate between the two breeds
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CAWs account for roughly 50% of the handle at all tracks--whether it be tbred or harness
if bettors see big pools-they think that is a good thing-when indeed the opposite is true
when 50% of the handle isn't human-and those bets come in way after the race starts....the bettors have little chance and their pockets are getting picked every race
if you want to avoid CAW play-bet Oaklawn Park-the only major tbred track that doesn't allow CAW action into their pools
almost a perfect post but i read a couple years ago it was 41 percent and was looking for it but could not find it and then i saw a 30 percent one today but i remember the 41 percent was from a good source but dont remember the source but the Oaklawn Park part is correct as the GM of the track said he believes in fair play i know i seem to always agree with him but his posts only talk racing and i find very helpful to the game
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almost a perfect post but i read a couple years ago it was 41 percent and was looking for it but could not find it and then i saw a 30 percent one today but i remember the 41 percent was from a good source but dont remember the source but the Oaklawn Park part is correct as the GM of the track said he believes in fair play i know i seem to always agree with him but his posts only talk racing and i find very helpful to the game
thank you Sir
you are one of a small handful of people who actually know for a fact what I post is accurate
the non believers are slowly fading away--the money coming in way after the race starts--this percentage of the handle these CAWs generate and the overall corruption between the tracks and major ADWs that I have mentioned for years is now coming to light
there will always be a group of delusional players/posters that still believe that this is all legit....that the betting stops after the race starts-i can only pity those people
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thank you Sir
you are one of a small handful of people who actually know for a fact what I post is accurate
the non believers are slowly fading away--the money coming in way after the race starts--this percentage of the handle these CAWs generate and the overall corruption between the tracks and major ADWs that I have mentioned for years is now coming to light
there will always be a group of delusional players/posters that still believe that this is all legit....that the betting stops after the race starts-i can only pity those people
A few months ago i asked my betting site if they could check into JAPAN B track wagering and this is hosted by a AUSTRAILIAN HUB as 2-5 minutes after a race odds changed and if anybody bet that product they would know its true and 90 percent of the time winning horse and exactors dropped in price and the hub i bet with said no answers him back and i repeated asking him again and again and the site never called him back , Now a few months ago winning odds stopped changing after a race but this went on for a couple years and also when double carryovers happened would see 40000 dollars bet into a 6000 carryover at 4 in thee morning with 90 percent of America unable to bet on it and i would bet at odds of 1-100 that 40000 dollars was not bet into these pools were no one had a racing form and for many they would not know where to finds track odds and this money came from north AMERICAn betting and again i asked the hub i bet with if he could find out where this money was coming from and this time he was answered and the reply was we do not give up customer information, Now almost all gamblers who gamble on a regular basis have found a clitch in the system and took advantage of this situation and people who are paid to watch this just sit back and do nothing and believe that no news is better than bad news and for sure that is not true as like in the CAPONE days everybody knows what is happening and people are driven away as everybody wants just rewards when cashing and not a fraction of a normal payoff
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thank you Sir
you are one of a small handful of people who actually know for a fact what I post is accurate
there will always be a group of delusional players/posters that still believe that this is all legit....that the betting stops after the race starts-i can only pity those people
Pity yourself, Nobody bets after the BELL!
What you post is your own delusional conjecture no facts!!!
During a one-year period of Santa Anita data studied (July 1, 2024, through June 30, 2025), the average amount of handle in the last 60 seconds coming from CAW players in each race was 30%. That means that 70% of the late money was from non-CAW players. So CAW players certainly contributed to the late odds shift, but they were not the sole cause.
In some respects, technology has caused the issue of late odds shifts because advancements in online wagering now allow so much money to come into the win pool in the last 60 seconds. So we need to look to technology for solutions. AmTote now updates its tote odds every 10 seconds as the race nears, which helps to smooth out the changes in odds. But other tote companies are still sending their data into the pools on 30-second cycles.
The wagering pools at a host track—such as Santa Anita—close simultaneously for all guest locations (racetracks, casinos, OTBs, and ADW companies) wagering into those pools. It is not possible for any player, including any Elite player, to place a wager after the pools have closed. AmTote possesses detailed time-synchronized transactional logs and Inter Tote System Protocol logs between its respective guest hubs and host racetrack hubs, archived indefinitely. AmTote can clearly demonstrate the time that each wager transaction was received and validate that it was before the time of the stop betting command. The only time any player would be able to wager after a race starts is the extremely rare circumstance where the wagering pools for a race fail to close due to human error. In that circumstance, the wagering pools would remain open for all guest locations until the error is rectified.
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Pity yourself, Nobody bets after the BELL!
What you post is your own delusional conjecture no facts!!!
During a one-year period of Santa Anita data studied (July 1, 2024, through June 30, 2025), the average amount of handle in the last 60 seconds coming from CAW players in each race was 30%. That means that 70% of the late money was from non-CAW players. So CAW players certainly contributed to the late odds shift, but they were not the sole cause.
In some respects, technology has caused the issue of late odds shifts because advancements in online wagering now allow so much money to come into the win pool in the last 60 seconds. So we need to look to technology for solutions. AmTote now updates its tote odds every 10 seconds as the race nears, which helps to smooth out the changes in odds. But other tote companies are still sending their data into the pools on 30-second cycles.
The wagering pools at a host track—such as Santa Anita—close simultaneously for all guest locations (racetracks, casinos, OTBs, and ADW companies) wagering into those pools. It is not possible for any player, including any Elite player, to place a wager after the pools have closed. AmTote possesses detailed time-synchronized transactional logs and Inter Tote System Protocol logs between its respective guest hubs and host racetrack hubs, archived indefinitely. AmTote can clearly demonstrate the time that each wager transaction was received and validate that it was before the time of the stop betting command. The only time any player would be able to wager after a race starts is the extremely rare circumstance where the wagering pools for a race fail to close due to human error. In that circumstance, the wagering pools would remain open for all guest locations until the error is rectified.
you seem to be under the impression that the pools close when the race starts
that's ok Saw--i have heard it all for 15 years about how honest all of this is
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you seem to be under the impression that the pools close when the race starts
that's ok Saw--i have heard it all for 15 years about how honest all of this is
If there's betting after the start its a very rare malfunction of the tote system. But conspiracy theorists and haters believe the nonsense.
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Source: Thoroughbred Daily News https://share.google/a8IjJvpmqfjbA7IMA
This doesn't differentiate between the two breeds
Right...I would assume less than 20% on buggys
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If there's betting after the start its a very rare malfunction of the tote system. But conspiracy theorists and haters believe the nonsense.
As someone who has worked around IT and finance my whole like, I am skeptical bets are placed after the race starts. What is happening is the final pools are not updated instantly. If large dollar amounts of bets are being placed after the race starts it is major fraud and would be easy for an IT auditor to find. Either there would be bets with timestamps after the races started or there would be code which which changes the timestamp and that code would only called for certain bets.
Since there are a number of people on Horseplop who are sure this is happening, I suggest they start reporting this to the FBI and the state attorney general of any state which has a track involved.
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you seem to be under the impression that the pools close when the race starts
that's ok Saw--i have heard it all for 15 years about how honest all of this is
Kenny on BReeders cup day many moons ago tickets were printed after the first three legs and i have never read anything about the im sorry or we have made changes and as far as i am concerned when a huge favorite breaks early and the groups destroy every pool its betting after the race and the biggest advantage play there is as the people who cashed on the legit loose 90 percent of their payoff and windows were not shut down at certain times and ive seen the race go official and that should be jail time for the people involved, Who has not taken advantage of a horse breaking before the start and racetracks that had rules that no refunds occured and when payoffs came back to 10 percent of a real payoff many in the crowd feel a boat race has just happened and people are driven away
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As someone who has worked around IT and finance my whole like, I am skeptical bets are placed after the race starts. What is happening is the final pools are not updated instantly. If large dollar amounts of bets are being placed after the race starts it is major fraud and would be easy for an IT auditor to find. Either there would be bets with timestamps after the races started or there would be code which which changes the timestamp and that code would only called for certain bets.
Since there are a number of people on Horseplop who are sure this is happening, I suggest they start reporting this to the FBI and the state attorney general of any state which has a track involved.
tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
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Kenny on BReeders cup day many moons ago tickets were printed after the first three legs and i have never read anything about the im sorry or we have made changes and as far as i am concerned when a huge favorite breaks early and the groups destroy every pool its betting after the race and the biggest advantage play there is as the people who cashed on the legit loose 90 percent of their payoff and windows were not shut down at certain times and ive seen the race go official and that should be jail time for the people involved, Who has not taken advantage of a horse breaking before the start and racetracks that had rules that no refunds occured and when payoffs came back to 10 percent of a real payoff many in the crowd feel a boat race has just happened and people are driven away
Can you go back to school and come back when you can write in readable English?
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Kenny on BReeders cup day many moons ago tickets were printed after the first three legs and i have never read anything about the im sorry or we have made changes and as far as i am concerned when a huge favorite breaks early and the groups destroy every pool its betting after the race and the biggest advantage play there is as the people who cashed on the legit loose 90 percent of their payoff and windows were not shut down at certain times and ive seen the race go official and that should be jail time for the people involved, Who has not taken advantage of a horse breaking before the start and racetracks that had rules that no refunds occured and when payoffs came back to 10 percent of a real payoff many in the crowd feel a boat race has just happened and people are driven away
This is 2025 not many moons ago. Everything done on any platform is timestamped and all devices are synced to the same time. That means there would have to be wagers with a timestamp after the start of the race or code that changed the timestamp for only certain bets. That is major fraud. If all you would report your thoughts to authorities, a low level auditor could find these things easily.
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https://www.drf.com/news/impact-caw-play-back-spotlight-lawsuit-social-media-banter
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https://paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/potential-to-devastate-an-entire-industry-stronach-group-responds-to-caw-lawsuit
The potential to devastate an entire industry...claim gives posturing and deflection entirely new meanings.
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If this gets to a trial, we are going find out the identity of the human(s) who owns/ benefit from the caw account (elite) that accounts for huge late odds movements at meadowlands harness.
That caw's dentity in it of itself could cause some devastation.
My guess- it never gets that far. The defendants will not allow that info to ever be made public.
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https://www.hbsslaw.com/sites/default/files/case-downloads/horse-betting-manipulation-class-action/2025-10-24-complaint.pdf
Has anyone read the entire complaint. I guess the betting after the bell hasn't come up yet.
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Kenny on BReeders cup day many moons ago tickets were printed after the first three legs and i have never read anything about the im sorry or we have made changes and as far as i am concerned when a huge favorite breaks early and the groups destroy every pool its betting after the race and the biggest advantage play there is as the people who cashed on the legit loose 90 percent of their payoff and windows were not shut down at certain times and ive seen the race go official and that should be jail time for the people involved, Who has not taken advantage of a horse breaking before the start and racetracks that had rules that no refunds occured and when payoffs came back to 10 percent of a real payoff many in the crowd feel a boat race has just happened and people are driven away
Even though Autotote officials characterized the scheme as the actions of a "rogue software engineer",[1] the National Thoroughbred Racing Association took swift action in the face of a growing outcry once the nature of the scam emerged. It required all tote companies to modify their software to transmit betting information immediately after the bet has closed. It also pressured its member tracks into not doing business with parlors that didn't have the ability to record wagers taken over the phone.[14][15]
The scheme was profiled on the Canadian television series Masterminds.
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Where this lawsuit will get tricky is: if I like the #2 to win and I wait till last possible second to bet. On computer,at machine or live teller I will have an effect on the odds. So according to this lawsuit I’m cheating the other players. It is parimutuel wagering, you never know the exact odds till wagering stops. If you can’t deal with that you might want to try fixed odds
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Where this lawsuit will get tricky is: if I like the #2 to win and I wait till last possible second to bet. On computer,at machine or live teller I will have an effect on the odds. So according to this lawsuit I’m cheating the other players. It is parimutuel wagering, you never know the exact odds till wagering stops. If you can’t deal with that you might want to try fixed odds
No. The lawsuit about the CAWs can enter more than 6 bets at once. You or I cant do that. We can enter one at a time. And, the CAWs get last call. They can see the final pools, after all our money is in and make their batch bets based on final pools ( except their own bets).
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Where this lawsuit will get tricky is: if I like the #2 to win and I wait till last possible second to bet. On computer,at machine or live teller I will have an effect on the odds. So according to this lawsuit I’m cheating the other players. It is parimutuel wagering, you never know the exact odds till wagering stops. If you can’t deal with that you might want to try fixed odds
In England all the winning players are having a rough time as their betting limit in many cases on fixed odds is 1 dollar as they can not cut you off bet can limit your bets and many of these gamblers will use family or friends to place a wager and that does not last long, A few years ago they allowed poggies that is slots in the betting shops and now that is the main concern with WILLIAM HILL and every other betting site, One this biggest owners of these betting sites is the one of the owners with COOLMORE STUD and the horse are trained by AIDEN O BRIAN
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No. The lawsuit about the CAWs can enter more than 6 bets at once. You or I cant do that. We can enter one at a time. And, the CAWs get last call. They can see the final pools, after all our money is in and make their batch bets based on final pools ( except their own bets).
A handful of computers and the right software you can make all the bets you want at last second. When a CAW makes a wager at last second they effect their odds just as much as yours. I personally like CAW money in the pools. It doesn’t take into account the appearance of the horse on the track. (See Louprint odds). I didn’t use Burkes other horse but I was going for nice payday if he raced like he warmed up
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The big beautiful bill will put an end to ELITE TURF club on january 1, The 10 percent tax will kill all forms of gambling and on poker blogs many of the high limit young guns have said that this is their last two months if changes are not made, if you win 3 million and loose 3 million you will have to pay 300k on your winning and the math is simple for tourney poker or high limit slot players or horse players.
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A handful of computers and the right software you can make all the bets you want at last second. When a CAW makes a wager at last second they effect their odds just as much as yours. I personally like CAW money in the pools. It doesn’t take into account the appearance of the horse on the track. (See Louprint odds). I didn’t use Burkes other horse but I was going for nice payday if he raced like he warmed up
Unless you are classified as a caw and have direct pool access, no human alive can bet like they do.
Put it this way. If I make a very large wager at the last second, say 5k at the meadowlands to win, the caws see it and adjust accordingly in their wagers. That will never work the other way, it's just not setup that way. I'll never know the caw bets and be able to react and bet accordingly. They have that timing edge provided to them by tracks in return for guaranteed handle levels.
Regarding anyone liking CAWs. The very conservative data shows that the weakest of CAWs add a universal 2.5% to the takeout. No matter what you may think your advantage is over them, they increase takeout on everyone over the long term.
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The big beautiful bill will put an end to ELITE TURF club on january 1, The 10 percent tax will kill all forms of gambling and on poker blogs many of the high limit young guns have said that this is their last two months if changes are not made, if you win 3 million and loose 3 million you will have to pay 300k on your winning and the math is simple for tourney poker or high limit slot players or horse players.
Yeah. If that bill isn't overturned, no horsrplayer could possibly survive
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Unless you are classified as a caw and have direct pool access, no human alive can bet like they do.
Put it this way. If I make a very large wager at the last second, say 5k at the meadowlands to win, the caws see it and adjust accordingly in their wagers. That will never work the other way, it's just not setup that way. I'll never know the caw bets and be able to react and bet accordingly. They have that timing edge provided to them by tracks in return for guaranteed handle levels.
Regarding anyone liking CAWs. The very conservative data shows that the weakest of CAWs add a universal 2.5% to the takeout. No matter what you may think your advantage is over them, they increase takeout on everyone over the long term.
100 percent fact
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Unless you are classified as a caw and have direct pool access, no human alive can bet like they do.
Put it this way. If I make a very large wager at the last second, say 5k at the meadowlands to win, the caws see it and adjust accordingly in their wagers. That will never work the other way, it's just not setup that way. I'll never know the caw bets and be able to react and bet accordingly. They have that timing edge provided to them by tracks in return for guaranteed handle levels.
Regarding anyone liking CAWs. The very conservative data shows that the weakest of CAWs add a universal 2.5% to the takeout. No matter what you may think your advantage is over them, they increase takeout on everyone over the long term.
If they have an algorithm that can see your wager and react in a few seconds they are spending a shit ton on IT and would have a hard time making up the difference especially if you factor somewhere between 30-50% of the pool is their money
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And BTW if you spend the money or build your own algorithm that predicts where the CAW money is going you could easily beat them at their own game. Of course you would need the capital to wager enough to get the top rebates
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If they have an algorithm that can see your wager and react in a few seconds they are spending a shit ton on IT and would have a hard time making up the difference especially if you factor somewhere between 30-50% of the pool is their money
It is a fact they can see every bettors bets and i agree with you as the numbers make no sense. I have bet MOHAWK for over 40 years and i can no longer bet with them in the pools and single file speed tracks, I do not bet chalk and have no chance as to me the rake is over 50 percent, All OTB shops are empty in ONTARIO and out side of the big M we are the second biggest handle over the last 25 years and have a group of people that never gamble running the racetracks and the OLGC and number crunchers can not understand that bad money is killing all players, Getting back a fraction of a real price when cashing is a sure way of getting people to quit and many of these people while gambling get involved in buying horses.
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And BTW if you spend the money or build your own algorithm that predicts where the CAW money is going you could easily beat them at their own game. Of course you would need the capital to wager enough to get the top rebates
I firmly believe that everyone who gambles on parimutual racing has to bet the same way. No technology advantages for anyone. No matter what. We will see what the lawyers and courts say is fair
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Every winning bet when checked is bet with a couple of seconds to post as every time i have called they tell me its a fair bet and the horse in the best position in the race early is the one taking the money and i think from something in the past that maybe they are beating the system and i will bring this up with the right people, In chess if a 2200 player plays at a 2800 player online during a whole tourney they DQ him as they know he is cheating and in poker if someone is using software to play the site BARRS him but at the racetrack if a trainer claims a horse that is a rail fade and pays 4 dollars the very next week off a claim and everyone knows the horse might be a huge turn around that he is cheating and when i hear the shows and they say congrats to team whatever as the trainer made a few changes and now we see the real horse, i find this talk insulting and like the show liar liar the same person if telling the truth would say wow was he loaded and that is the truth.
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I firmly believe that everyone who gambles on parimutual racing has to bet the same way. No technology advantages for anyone. No matter what. We will see what the lawyers and courts say is fair
Good luck with that. I play poker online and always run an odds calculator on my phone just to double check my math
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Good luck with that. I play poker online and always run an odds calculator on my phone just to double check my math
I am talking about how the bets are placed into the pool. I want Same technology for everyone placing bets. No specials deals. No alternative pool access. No batch betting.
I have no problem with anyone using AI or calculators or any other software imaginable to assist in coming up with wagers.
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I firmly believe that everyone who gambles on parimutual racing has to bet the same way. No technology advantages for anyone. No matter what. We will see what the lawyers and courts say is fair
Ok question do you think all stock traders do it the old fashioned way? No technology advantage. Sorry that is the new normal. Only advantage you can have in horse racing is body language of the horse. Computer can’t factor that in. Yet
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I am talking about how the bets are placed into the pool. I want Same technology for everyone placing bets. No specials deals. No alternative pool access. No batch betting.
I have no problem with anyone using AI or calculators or any other software imaginable to assist in coming up with wagers.
Going with my stock market analogy or any other business. Do you think you can get the same price of anything buying 1000 units if the other is buying 10 million. Ain’t happening volume pays the overhead small buyers provide the profit
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Good luck with that. I play poker online and always run an odds calculator on my phone just to double check my math
i agree with you. what ever happened to groups that are paid to protect the gambler, Every person i talk with has told me never again when it comes to racing as they are sick of the actual racing and the huge drop in odds leaving the gate and real bad payoffs. if a tri comes in with 12-1 15-1 and 10-1 and pays 600 and you speak to OGCL or management they will tell you the payoff seems fair to me as they believe dont complain when you win and that makes it tough when you can not deal with reality with people who know nothing
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Read the complaint...and don't forget, as discovery proceeds, more evidence, more claims of damage, unfairness, and so on, can and probably will arise.
I think there are some very good points here. The question of CAW's "cheating" and are they "cheating" the other players is interrelated to unfair advantage, are the other players being damaged, can it be proven, and are those damages quantifiable, is going to be at issue. There may be a lot of moving parts to this, but it all comes down to proving and quantifying.
Sixty years ago when all of the play was on-track, there was little to no "flush" and "drag" into and on the pools. Sure, many people know there were some major players who had runners and locked up windows. We all know about "late" money and "smart" money, and every other kind of "money" that came in. OTB comes along and it changed, but not a lot. That is where we first saw pool flush, and that turned into drag, delay, whatever you want to call it. Simulcasting comes along, it changes a bit more, more often, more common, more noticeable, more prevalent. Online, offshore, rebate shops, bet from home, etc., and not it's much more. In today's current landscape, the impact on pool flush, drag, and yes, obviously CAW's, is making a major impact on pools and most players.
I guess the people who know and have proof of all the unfair, illegal, and cheating that's going on here, will be contacting the plaintiff's attorney.
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Read the complaint...and don't forget, as discovery proceeds, more evidence, more claims of damage, unfairness, and so on, can and probably will arise.
I think there are some very good points here. The question of CAW's "cheating" and are they "cheating" the other players is interrelated to unfair advantage, are the other players being damaged, can it be proven, and are those damages quantifiable, is going to be at issue. There may be a lot of moving parts to this, but it all comes down to proving and quantifying.
Sixty years ago when all of the play was on-track, there was little to no "flush" and "drag" into and on the pools. Sure, many people know there were some major players who had runners and locked up windows. We all know about "late" money and "smart" money, and every other kind of "money" that came in. OTB comes along and it changed, but not a lot. That is where we first saw pool flush, and that turned into drag, delay, whatever you want to call it. Simulcasting comes along, it changes a bit more, more often, more common, more noticeable, more prevalent. Online, offshore, rebate shops, bet from home, etc., and not it's much more. In today's current landscape, the impact on pool flush, drag, and yes, obviously CAW's, is making a major impact on pools and most players.
I guess the people who know and have proof of all the unfair, illegal, and cheating that's going on here, will be contacting the plaintiff's attorney.
YOU ARE DEAD ON WITH YOU POST but when it comes down to the last bit you know only one will speak to the lawyer and if the costs are to high i will wait for the result and then proceed.
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Ok question do you think all stock traders do it the old fashioned way? No technology advantage. Sorry that is the new normal. Only advantage you can have in horse racing is body language of the horse. Computer can’t factor that in. Yet
What you perceive as your CAW advantage, handicapping body language, doesnt exist in reality. In fact, if you are a really good harness racing gambler, no matter what advantage you have, the caws affect your bottom line the most. Obviously, you dont believe me and you think you are better off with CAWs in the pools. I suppose you could contact Elite and tell them that you want testify for the defense as a gambler. You may be the only one of us in the country. I'd bet they will pay all your expenses to help them
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No need for me to get involved. I’m not a degenerate that needs to bet every race. I watch lots and bet a few. Works for me. I laugh all the time about the complaints my 2/1 ended up at 4/5 those CAW bastards.
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No need for me to get involved. I’m not a degenerate that needs to bet every race. I watch lots and bet a few. Works for me. I laugh all the time about the complaints my 2/1 ended up at 4/5 those CAW bastards.
ngc3
You. Most certainly are a racing industry type. Gamblers who are anti-CAW are degenerates. So, so typical. I hear that everywhere. Gamblers are hated sicko degenerates
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No need for me to get involved. I’m not a degenerate that needs to bet every race. I watch lots and bet a few. Works for me. I laugh all the time about the complaints my 2/1 ended up at 4/5 those CAW bastards.
Don't ever say something you're not ngc3
No one accused you ngc3
Yet you need assurance ngc3
Us normal people, don't use as pick up lines, I'm not a rapist, with that said I'd like to take you out for a nice time... ngc3
But sure, if you felt it necessary to tell us all that you're not a degenerate, I for one believe you! tmbz1
;D
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Don't ever say something you're not ngc3
No one accused you ngc3
Yet you need assurance ngc3
Us normal people, don't use as pick up lines, I'm not a rapist, with that said I'd like to take you out for a nice time... ngc3
But sure, if you felt it necessary to tell us all that you're not a degenerate, I for one believe you! tmbz1
;D
I’m a degenerate gambler, wanna bet on it ?
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Don't ever say something you're not ngc3
No one accused you ngc3
Yet you need assurance ngc3
Us normal people, don't use as pick up lines, I'm not a rapist, with that said I'd like to take you out for a nice time... ngc3
But sure, if you felt it necessary to tell us all that you're not a degenerate, I for one believe you! tmbz1
;D
This is f---ing funny
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I’m a degenerate gambler, wanna bet on it ?
So is this
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Well, now that this is out there and potentially being litigated.....the CAW's having the ability-----and the permission----to bet after the bell, will have to come out now.
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Well, now that this is out there and potentially being litigated.....the CAW's having the ability-----and the permission----to bet after the bell, will have to come out now.
This post make no sense as some of the most protected bank and crypto sites have been broken into including government places like the FBI and CIA and if you believe the racetrack will spend the money to protect gamblers your wrong as they cover up for drug cheats and every wrong you can instead of exposing it, The racetrack and horsemen could care less about our protection and no one has the ok to bet after the bell but ive seen cases of race refunds because the bell was not shut or ive seen races that the bell shuts off late and that should never happen,
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This post make no sense as some of the most protected bank and crypto sites have been broken into including government places like the FBI and CIA and if you believe the racetrack will spend the money to protect gamblers your wrong as they cover up for drug cheats and every wrong you can instead of exposing it, The racetrack and horsemen could care less about our protection and no one has the ok to bet after the bell but ive seen cases of race refunds because the bell was not shut or ive seen races that the bell shuts off late and that should never happen,
Makes no sense? All I am saying is now that this is being litigated -- all the betting after the bell by the CAW's will come out now. Right? No, I am not talking about the BC incident. I am talking about the CAW's being able to bet after the bell. It's talked about on here all the time. It has to come out now, right or wrong?
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Makes no sense? All I am saying is now that this is being litigated -- all the betting after the bell by the CAW's will come out now. Right? No, I am not talking about the BC incident. I am talking about the CAW's being able to bet after the bell. It's talked about on here all the time. It has to come out now, right or wrong?
not necessarily
providing time stamp evidence would be incriminating themselves and I doubt that the two main tote systems controlling the North American pools would do that
they probably categorize the bets made after the bell as "the last betting cycle" with no time stamp
the latest Keeland exacta payoff is evidence enough that they bet after the bell --that people who bet before the bell don't play $400 cold exactas involving 40/1 shots
yes $400 cold exactas bet on "the last cycle" involving bombs come in all the time, legitimately ngc3
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Makes no sense? All I am saying is now that this is being litigated -- all the betting after the bell by the CAW's will come out now. Right? No, I am not talking about the BC incident. I am talking about the CAW's being able to bet after the bell. It's talked about on here all the time. It has to come out now, right or wrong?
We dont know if that is the case and i cant make the opinion that is the case but it may be but the times i call and they check it they always say the bet was legit and thats like saying a huge drug trainer is legit because hes still training and the horse that faded last week is different because of the brilliant EQ changes but we know somethings wrong when nobody is winning, I thought you were making fun of a situation that is not funny to me , Those great trainers you know from blue bonnets days like Jacques Hebert and benoit cote and i know im going to get roasted for this one but yves fillion also would not be winning today if they did not cheat and they would be called as people that could not keep up with the times but you know the truth that something is wrong and we know the truth that race gambling can not be beat with what is happening and like the drug situation they may cover it up.
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not necessarily
providing time stamp evidence would be incriminating themselves and I doubt that the two main tote systems controlling the North American pools would do that
they probably categorize the bets made after the bell as "the last betting cycle" with no time stamp
the latest Keeland exacta payoff is evidence enough that they bet after the bell --that people who bet before the bell don't play $400 cold exactas involving 40/1 shots
yes $400 cold exactas bet on "the last cycle" involving bombs come in all the time, legitimately ngc3
We dont know if that is the case and i cant make the opinion that is the case but it may be but the times i call and they check it they always say the bet was legit and thats like saying a huge drug trainer is legit because hes still training and the horse that faded last week is different because of the brilliant EQ changes but we know somethings wrong when nobody is winning, I thought you were making fun of a situation that is not funny to me , Those great trainers you know from blue bonnets days like Jacques Hebert and benoit cote and i know im going to get roasted for this one but yves fillion also would not be winning today if they did not cheat and they would be called as people that could not keep up with the times but you know the truth that something is wrong and we know the truth that race gambling can not be beat with what is happening and like the drug situation they may cover it up.
I am not making fun of anything. So, basically, just so I can understand, what you are both saying is that-----it's entirely possible that the CAW's betting after the bell-----may not come to light? It may not come out? It may not be proven? It may still be covered up?
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I am not making fun of anything. So, basically, just so I can understand, what you are both saying is that-----it's entirely possible that the CAW's betting after the bell-----may not come to light? It may not come out? It may not be proven? It may still be covered up?
Like the drugs in the game might not be the reason one guy rules racing and just maybe his people are so advanced it could be something else but we know its not hard work and i am not sure they are betting after the bell but i will get a call and give them other possibilities , A few years ago i heard story of Paul PIERCE and the guy from miami who got caught and i had no clue that they were so advanced but i do know one person who lost way to much money and i heard that real bad players killed the game and i was just listening and saying to myself i wish i could play in that game with the two NBA players. Remember one thing someone is super greedy as pools are corupt everywhere now and in hong kong the big players are not happy and want the police to step in
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This is not a site i am really interested on this as i am getting bored and most on here are not gamblers, There is a private site that only has horse racing issues dealt with and we had 40 people 3 years ago with a harness breeder owner that only bets on runners and is a top notch poster and he said he finds it tough to watch a race even if he has a horse running as single file racing does not help his style of betting and he is also hurting at the windows and only plays pik 5 bets but this site is almost dead as most have quit and i really enjoyed the super banter among these guys, Its hard to post with no posters.
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I am not making fun of anything. So, basically, just so I can understand, what you are both saying is that-----it's entirely possible that the CAW's betting after the bell-----may not come to light? It may not come out? It may not be proven? It may still be covered up?
yes yes yes yes yes--to answer your questions sequentially
its similar to a "too big to fail"--the industry sells about $2bil in yearling sales world wide every year-to have what is going on in the North American pools betting structure being exposed would be a big blow to the super wealthy--and we all know the rules are separate for them as opposed to the rules for the rest of us
I cannot see this "coming to light"--the two main tote companies are owned by Churchill and 1/ST--it just so happens those two corporations own the tracks that own the major tracks...NYRA felt they needed a piece so they purchased 20% of Elite
what we can hope is that they stop the massive advantage these CAWs have on all of us--or at least minimize it