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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: OF JENNY on July 19, 2025, 09:01:04 PM
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Make me believe this is a good thing for the industry.
Only person it's good for is Ronnie himself.
MONOPOLY
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Make me believe this is a good thing for the industry.
Only person it's good for is Ronnie himself.
MONOPOLY
I'll stick with Prince Hal Hanover and hope he draws well on Wednesday.
They should just cancel the race and chop the purse like they do in poker tournaments when they pussy out and want it over.
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burke has taken over ohio
looks like he is focused on Ontario now
oh yeah and there is indiana, pa, kentucky etc
be afraid, be very afraid, the assembly line does not stop
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burke has taken over ohio
looks like he is focused on Ontario now
oh yeah and there is indiana, pa, kentucky etc
be afraid, be very afraid, the assembly line does not stop
ngc3
Let's put this in perspective, breeding aside, please tell me who has made more than Burke as a Trainer (and owner) when taking into all money he has made in total in harness racing against any one individual in ALL of Thoroughbred and Standardbred racing history?
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Make me believe this is a good thing for the industry.
Only person it's good for is Ronnie himself.
MONOPOLY
Good thing there is a list of his preferred drivers. He’s going to need to consult it with that many in one race! ngc3
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It’s a mockery
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Good thing there is a list of his preferred drivers. He’s going to need to consult it with that many in one race! ngc3
ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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ngc3
Let's put this in perspective, breeding aside, please tell me who has made more than Burke as a Trainer (and owner) when taking into all money he has made in total in harness racing against any one individual in ALL of Thoroughbred and Standardbred racing history?
Interesting thought
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ngc3
Let's put this in perspective, breeding aside, please tell me who has made more than Burke as a Trainer (and owner) when taking into all money he has made in total in harness racing against any one individual in ALL of Thoroughbred and Standardbred racing history?
I would have to guess Todd Pletcher has him beat, especially since thoroughbred trainers get 10% instead of the 5% in harness. I am sure his daily training rate is somewhere in the $150/day range also.
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Nothing but jealousy and haters. Burke has earned the success he is experiencing.
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You have to truly applaud Burke for what he has accomplished. To be able to manage so many stables that he has across the country is truly amazing. BUT, he is hurting the sport. The small outfits can't compete with the numbers he has. He goes to states and dominates. More and more of the Locals are disapearing. To have 5 horses in the Adios final hits the nail right on the head. No other trainer can do this. In the sport's heyday. You never saw this happen.
He also has a huge advantage with so many horses to fit them in a perfect class weekly at different tracks. It's an amazing operation, but when is enough, enough. He is obviously financially set for life. I have no idea how many horses he has, but it has to be in the hundreds.
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Had 228 entries/results on usta. That doesn’t count the few racing in Canada lately. I’d say minimum on 150-175 in action just within the last 2 weeks. Whether he is legit or not is another discussion. But that is a huge operation, has to have tons of good help!
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Soon Burke will have all the horses in a race. Then race one and scratch the rest, that results In a walk over and they split the purse up without leaving the barn.
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I have said for many years his monopoly in harness racing wouldn't be allowed in any other industry. He has destroyed the incentive of the small ownerships of the sport. If he can't breed them or buy them at the sale he will buy out the fastest 2 yr. old horse small time owner like this year. He is not satisfied unless he has the biggest piece of the pie in the Ohio Sire Stakes each year. There is no jealousy involved. Just my observation after many years of small time ownership. When you allow the Costcos and Walmarts to compete unfairly with the little guy you know who will get drove out of business every time.
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I would have to guess Todd Pletcher has him beat, especially since thoroughbred trainers get 10% instead of the 5% in harness. I am sure his daily training rate is somewhere in the $150/day range also.
If you look at the trainer statistics they use total purses. I believe Burke is the top considering both sports.
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Nothing but jealousy and haters. Burke has earned the success he is experiencing.
Without Burke that race does not even eliminations or they would have been 5 horse races with all but one making the final. Burke is a symptom of the real problem which is the government handouts. Burke has just had the business sense to expand and make money anywhere he can.
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I have said for many years his monopoly in harness racing wouldn't be allowed in any other industry. He has destroyed the incentive of the small ownerships of the sport. If he can't breed them or buy them at the sale he will buy out the fastest 2 yr. old horse small time owner like this year. He is not satisfied unless he has the biggest piece of the pie in the Ohio Sire Stakes each year. There is no jealousy involved. Just my observation after many years of small time ownership. When you allow the Costcos and Walmarts to compete unfairly with the little guy you know who will get drove out of business every time.
You throw around EMOTIONS instead of facts. Burke is no where close to a monopoly. In 2024 he won a little over 4.5% of the purses. That is not a monopoly. Åke Svanstedt has half the field in some trotting races.
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You have to truly applaud Burke for what he has accomplished. To be able to manage so many stables that he has across the country is truly amazing. BUT, he is hurting the sport. The small outfits can't compete with the numbers he has. He goes to states and dominates. More and more of the Locals are disapearing. To have 5 horses in the Adios final hits the nail right on the head. No other trainer can do this. In the sport's heyday. You never saw this happen.
He also has a huge advantage with so many horses to fit them in a perfect class weekly at different tracks. It's an amazing operation, but when is enough, enough. He is obviously financially set for life. I have no idea how many horses he has, but it has to be in the hundreds.
You must be young and wasn't actually around for the heyday. Multiple entries were common in big races in the 60's thru the 80's. In fact, Billy Haughton had five horses in the Meadowlands Pace that he won with Nihilator. A race I may add that was the biggest the sport had to offer.
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Without Burke that race does not even eliminations or they would have been 5 horse races with all but one making the final. Burke is a symptom of the real problem which is the government handouts. Burke has just had the business sense to expand and make money anywhere he can.
I would add that although he has 5 horses that made the final, by far the best two horses in the final, Twisted Destiny and Prince Hal Hanover, are trained by other connections.
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For what's it's worth, the 1st elimination was 2 seconds faster than the second one and was clearly the tougher elimination.
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I would have to guess Todd Pletcher has him beat, especially since thoroughbred trainers get 10% instead of the 5% in harness. I am sure his daily training rate is somewhere in the $150/day range also.
Pletcher doesnt own his horses like Burke does nor does he train as many as Burke.
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Nothing but jealousy and haters. Burke has earned the success he is experiencing.
Yes tmbz1
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You have to truly applaud Burke for what he has accomplished. To be able to manage so many stables that he has across the country is truly amazing. BUT, he is hurting the sport. The small outfits can't compete with the numbers he has. He goes to states and dominates. More and more of the Locals are disapearing. To have 5 horses in the Adios final hits the nail right on the head. No other trainer can do this. In the sport's heyday. You never saw this happen.
He also has a huge advantage with so many horses to fit them in a perfect class weekly at different tracks. It's an amazing operation, but when is enough, enough. He is obviously financially set for life. I have no idea how many horses he has, but it has to be in the hundreds.
I think I heard him say 200-300
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You must be young and wasn't actually around for the heyday. Multiple entries were common in big races in the 60's thru the 80's. In fact, Billy Haughton had five horses in the Meadowlands Pace that he won with Nihilator. A race I may add that was the biggest the sport had to offer.
How many horses did Lou Guida, have in the Breeders Crown when Dragons Lair beat Nihilator? They even tried to gang up on Dragons Lair in the final so Nihilator would win.
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I would add that although he has 5 horses that made the final, by far the best two horses in the final, Twisted Destiny and Prince Hal Hanover, are trained by other connections.
Burke is from a town close to The Meadows. The Adios does not draw all the top horses any more. You will not see all five of those horses in one Grand Circuit race the rest of the year.
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Its a huge advantage when he has so many in a big race. His drivers know there will be a seat. Who's leavimg hard , taking back, etc . Do you think the other drivers/ owners can plan out a race like they can, Definitely a big help for them.
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Congrats to him on figuring out a way to become wealthy. But it's still not good for the sport. It is part of the reason it's slowly dieing. Props to him for getting the bag before it dies.
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I think with the Meadows being his home track... he threw all his top 3 year olds in trying to win the race. They will spread back out and not compete to much against each other until the LBJ. We knew he had a great group of 3 year olds this year.. it's to soon to say if this will be the norm in following years or a 1 year aberration
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So he has 5 horses in the race. He has 5 drivers who will drive 5 different horses. He has 5 drivers who want to continue to drive for him in the future.
There will be many conversations after the draw. These drivers will get instructions. These guys can either follow instructions be a team player or not listen and lose the bestvaccount in the business. Atleast 3 of the 5 guys rely on burke for their livelihood.
That my friends is enough to fix a race. Or work as a team against other entries. These drivers need burke. Burke doesn't need them. They will listen
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So he has 5 horses in the race. He has 5 drivers who will drive 5 different horses. He has 5 drivers who want to continue to drive for him in the future.
There will be many conversations after the draw. These drivers will get instructions. These guys can either follow instructions be a team player or not listen and lose the bestvaccount in the business. Atleast 3 of the 5 guys rely on burke for their livelihood.
That my friends is enough to fix a race. Or work as a team against other entries. These drivers need burke. Burke doesn't need them. They will listen
1984 a clear example of "working as a team". Lou Guida entered five and three made the final. Lou Guida desperately wanted Nihilator to win. Svanstead sometimes has half the field in trot races.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwUV3GVOehw
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Micky Burke sent horses every year to Kelly S.at the Meadowland barely could get checks then one year he comes him self and wins rest is history.
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T-Bred trainers do the same thing, as rabbits are entered in many stake races to ensure a lively pace.
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1984 a clear example of "working as a team". Lou Guida entered five and three made the final. Lou Guida desperately wanted Nihilator to win. Svanstead sometimes has half the field in trot races.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwUV3GVOehw
Pershing Square, Chairmanoftheboar d and I cannot recall the other two
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Congrats to him on figuring out a way to become wealthy. But it's still not good for the sport. It is part of the reason it's slowly dieing. Props to him for getting the bag before it dies.
Again it is a symptom not the cause. It is the slots infused purses which is the cause.
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Pershing Square, Chairmanoftheboar d and I cannot recall the other two
There were 5 all together. Three made the final. Pershing Square parked Dragons Liar to set up the race for Nihilator. It did not work!
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You throw around EMOTIONS instead of facts. Burke is no where close to a monopoly. In 2024 he won a little over 4.5% of the purses. That is not a monopoly. Åke Svanstedt has half the field in some trotting races.
Your comparing on a national level , but my comment only mention the Ohio Sires Stakes where his purse percent is much higher in recent years.
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It's still bad for the business. And it will continue to be bad for the business. Pretty soon he will just race against himself. That will be entertaining to the fans.
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1984 a clear example of "working as a team". Lou Guida entered five and three made the final. Lou Guida desperately wanted Nihilator to win. Svanstead sometimes has half the field in trot races.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwUV3GVOehw
The thing Ake does not have is a horse in every class at every track that is a better horse than most of the other field. How does someone who doesn't have the ability to travel from the midwest to the east coast just to find the best class for each of their horses compete with that?
You will never convince me that he is not a cancer to the sport, nor that he isn't using something(s) he shouldn't. That's my opinion, not fact, but I don't see much to change my mind.
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i will restate
if you are beating those that are known cheaters using ped etc than you are either
1. exceptionally good at what you do
2. also cheating but have not been caught
its one or the other
post your answer, option 1 or option 2
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i will restate
if you are beating those that are known cheaters using ped etc than you are either
1. exceptionally good at what you do
2. also cheating but have not been caught
its one or the other
post your answer, option 1 or option 2
Option 3: both. In today's climate, you can't beat everyone without being both.
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Your comparing on a national level , but my comment only mention the Ohio Sires Stakes where his purse percent is much higher in recent years.
And he could do worse in future years. Look at what Virgil Morgan has done in Ohio and he is a much bigger factor at the Ohio Fairs.
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In this sport as in all others cash is king. If you have the biggest bankroll you can buy the best and the most. Eventually you can squeeze out the other guy. Just like in the game of monopoly.
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It's still bad for the business. And it will continue to be bad for the business. Pretty soon he will just race against himself. That will be entertaining to the fans.
The fans do not know the difference. They are just looking at the horses and drivers. This is nothing new except Burke is much bigger. What is bad for the industry is KY having duel; eligibility where horses can make as much money and skip the grand circuit. What is bad for the industry is people like Diamond Creek keep their best horses at very few tracks and retiring them as soon as they can. The government handouts are the root of the problems.
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The thing Ake does not have is a horse in every class at every track that is a better horse than most of the other field. How does someone who doesn't have the ability to travel from the midwest to the east coast just to find the best class for each of their horses compete with that?
You will never convince me that he is not a cancer to the sport, nor that he isn't using something(s) he shouldn't. That's my opinion, not fact, but I don't see much to change my mind.
That is a huge exaggeration. Many of the stakes races last night did not have any Burke horses.
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In this sport as in all others cash is king. If you have the biggest bankroll you can buy the best and the most. Eventually you can squeeze out the little guy. Just like in the game of monopoly.
Burke is better at the business part of the sport tan anyone else. He is not the top performer on the track, he just uses volume to make money.
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That is a huge exaggeration. Many of the stakes races last night did not have any Burke horses.
Yes, a clear exaggeration. But the less exaggerated truth is that he does have horses in most classes in most jurisdictions (stakes or overnights). Many (most?) of the top stakes trainers do not play in that space.
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Yes, a clear exaggeration. But the less exaggerated truth is that he does have horses in most classes in most jurisdictions (stakes or overnights). Many (most?) of the top stakes trainers do not play in that space.
Not true. At many tracks he is only in the stakes races.
Doing a quick check of upcoming race days:
Pocono 3 races
Yonkers 2 races
Plainridge 1 race
Northfield 3 races
Chester 1 race
Red Mile 1 race
Hardly every class...
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Not true. At many tracks he is only in the stakes races.
Doing a quick check of upcoming race days:
Pocono 3 races
Yonkers 2 races
Plainridge 1 race
Northfield 3 races
Chester 1 race
Red Mile 1 race
Hardly every class...
Fair enough. It certainly seems that way in the racing I watch but I do not statisticize it, so may be more my perception.
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Fair enough. It certainly seems that way in the racing I watch but I do not statisticize it, so may be more my perception.
In my view, Diamond Creek is a much bigger problem. They manipulated the entire industry with Confederate. His mark was fake since it was set up by another Diamond Creek horse. They raced his in the sire stakes in PA and KY to avoid some of the grand circuit. It was all about his stallion fee. That goes back to the government handouts. The fact is both Diamond Creek and Burke are playing the game better than others so they do better than others. The other big trainers could do what Burke does but it requires a lot more administrative work and managing a lot more people.
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In my view, Diamond Creek is a much bigger problem. They manipulated the entire industry with Confederate. His mark was fake since it was set up by another Diamond Creek horse. They raced his in the sire stakes in PA and KY to avoid some of the grand circuit. It was all about his stallion fee. That goes back to the government handouts. The fact is both Diamond Creek and Burke are playing the game better than others so they do better than others. The other big trainers could do what Burke does but it requires a lot more administrative work and managing a lot more people.
No fan of them DCF, and I agree. That well will run dry if he doesn't make a sire, but not before they've pocketed theirs.
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In my view, Diamond Creek is a much bigger problem. They manipulated the entire industry with Confederate. His mark was fake since it was set up by another Diamond Creek horse. They raced his in the sire stakes in PA and KY to avoid some of the grand circuit. It was all about his stallion fee. That goes back to the government handouts. The fact is both Diamond Creek and Burke are playing the game better than others so they do better than others. The other big trainers could do what Burke does but it requires a lot more administrative work and managing a lot more people.
The thing people miss in your post is in the last statement..
“MANAGING A LOT MORE PEOPLE”… More than likely that goes further than just his employees of which you are one of.
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Maybe I am way wrong because I am basing my opinion strictly on perception and not fact, as I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me Burke doesn't spend as much on yearlings as stables like Takter, Svanstadt, Alagna.
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The thing people miss in your post is in the last statement..
“MANAGING A LOT MORE PEOPLE”… More than likely that goes further than just his employees of which you are one of.
I do not work for Burke, I am a fan. The only contact I ever had with anyone in that organization is I was once standing near the winners circle taking picture of one of their top horses and lady told me to come to the other side of the fence and take my pictures.
What I have seen is how Burke had Foiled Again race in tracks all over including fairs his last year. He did something similar with Atlanta. He does not hide from heat racing and he tends to keep his horses on the track even if they have top three year old years.
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Maybe I am way wrong because I am basing my opinion strictly on perception and not fact, as I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me Burke doesn't spend as much on yearlings as stables like Takter, Svanstadt, Alagna.
I think he is better at finding value. I don't think he signs for many that are $500,000+. He also buys horses which have been racing. He may by more but not spend as much.
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T-Bred trainers do the same thing, as rabbits are entered in many stake races to ensure a lively pace.
Mickey once said a long long time ago in a smelly old tack room at Northfield thats its so simple i cant believe everybody doesn't do it.
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Mickey once said a long long time ago in a smelly old tack room at Northfield thats its so simple i cant believe everybody doesn't do it.
He does it just like you sell cars. You can make money selling low priced used cars and high priced exotic cars and everything in between. Combine them all and you can grow and have stable cash flow.
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The thing people miss in your post is in the last statement..
“MANAGING A LOT MORE PEOPLE”… More than likely that goes further than just his employees of which you are one of.
Example.. Adios eliminations, race 10 at The Meadows. 2 causes 4 to xxx. No call.
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Example.. Adios eliminations, race 10 at The Meadows. 2 causes 4 to xxx. No call.
Why didn't the driver file an objection?
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STOP BUYING YEARLINGS AND IN A FEW YEARS THAT WILL END THE BURKE AND VIRGIL MOMENT CUZ THE FARMS WILL FOLD AND BETTING WILL FOLD AND U WILL WIN THE MOMENT BUT LOSE THE WAR AND RON AND VIRGIL WILL HAVE TO RACE SOMETHING ELSE SAME IN INDIANA WITH GEORGE 11.wp
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STOP BUYING YEARLINGS AND IN A FEW YEARS THAT WILL END THE BURKE AND VIRGIL MOMENT CUZ THE FARMS WILL FOLD AND BETTING WILL FOLD AND U WILL WIN THE MOMENT BUT LOSE THE WAR AND RON AND VIRGIL WILL HAVE TO RACE SOMETHING ELSE SAME IN INDIANA WITH GEORGE 11.wp
TOO FUNNY!! ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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i still havent been convinced burke is good for the industry. in fact i think most people believe its not helping the industry.
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GEEEEEEE YA THINK ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 NOW BACK TO THE BASEMENT AND STAND IN THE CORNER
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i still havent been convinced burke is good for the industry. in fact i think most people believe its not helping the industry.
Neither is Diamond Creek or the KY duel eligibility or the people this dis the Jug...
They are all acting in their best interests. Unless there are major changes to the industry, that will continue.
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i still havent been convinced burke is good for the industry. in fact i think most people believe its not helping the industry.
Is it good for Ake to have 5 horses entered in some trot stakes races?
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no i dont think it is.
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Kenny, your answers make you sound like more than a fan.
I'd guess you are in the Burke organization.
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Kenny, your answers make you sound like more than a fan.
I'd guess you are in the Burke organization.
Did you read the whole thread? I explained that yesterday.
I do not work for Burke, I am a fan. The only contact I ever had with anyone in that organization is I was once standing near the winners circle taking picture of one of their top horses and lady told me to come to the other side of the fence and take my pictures.
What I have seen is how Burke had Foiled Again race in tracks all over including fairs his last year. He did something similar with Atlanta. He does not hide from heat racing and he tends to keep his horses on the track even if they have top three year old years.
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Why didn't the driver file an objection?
Drivers don’t file objections anymore. And maybe this driver might get to drive a Burke horse someday when he has a full field.
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Tik tok. Gooden visual. Did anyone hear them say power in numbers. Meaning they have the power with 5.
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he had 5 in it back in 2016 and did not win it
nothings stopping anyone else from having 5 in it
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In my view, Diamond Creek is a much bigger problem. They manipulated the entire industry with Confederate. His mark was fake since it was set up by another Diamond Creek horse. They raced his in the sire stakes in PA and KY to avoid some of the grand circuit. It was all about his stallion fee. That goes back to the government handouts. The fact is both Diamond Creek and Burke are playing the game better than others so they do better than others. The other big trainers could do what Burke does but it requires a lot more administrative work and managing a lot more people.
confederate never raced in Pennsylvania sires. his lone start in Pennsylvania was a grand circuit race and he beat their heads in