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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: rainman2 on June 04, 2025, 02:05:50 AM

Title: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: rainman2 on June 04, 2025, 02:05:50 AM
Take Out Rates
Win, Place, Show – 15%
Daily Double & Exacta – 17%
All other Exotics – 21%
State Minimums!!

As a bettor/gambler, you have to like this.

However, there are no pools to speak in win/place/show pools as well as Daily doubles, exactas, triples, etc.

Any kind of "big wager" equals stepping on your own money.

Would changing the days and times that tioga races help this out?
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: Scooteroo on June 04, 2025, 04:03:47 AM
Some of the takeout rates are good but 21% on Pick 4's is on the high side although the pool is very small. It's not a well-known track, so I doubt changing racing dates or post times would have much of an impact. Monticello has much cheaper horses but out handles them by a wide margin because it has a following, Tioga doesn't.
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: CMJAnew on June 04, 2025, 04:23:09 AM
It’s my understanding, getting other tracks to take the signal is the problem. Not sure if it holds today, but last year/season, the on track handle was high (as a percent of total handle).
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: Yonkers1A on June 04, 2025, 05:54:41 AM
My friend took down a P4 pool, I think he netted over 1K
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: Scooteroo on June 04, 2025, 06:59:33 AM
The advantage of a small pool is the possibility of taking down the whole pool if some heavy favorites get beat.
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: Papillon on June 04, 2025, 08:31:20 AM
Take Out Rates
Win, Place, Show – 15%
Daily Double & Exacta – 17%
All other Exotics – 21%
State Minimums!!

As a bettor/gambler, you have to like this.

However, there are no pools to speak in win/place/show pools as well as Daily doubles, exactas, triples, etc.

Any kind of "big wager" equals stepping on your own money.

Would changing the days and times that tioga races help this out?

Gural wants "foot traffic" for the casino

that has been his method of operation since the place opened

he does not care about racing handle at Tioga or Vernon
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: The Exporter on June 04, 2025, 08:50:23 AM
I would not say he does not care. More like, the public dose not care. Jeffery invested heavily to promote and build a customer base. Never happened and never will. So, why would you keep pissing away money on something that proves not worthy of investment?
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: Yonkers1A on June 04, 2025, 08:59:57 AM
I would not say he does not care. More like, the public dose not care. Jeffery invested heavily to promote and build a customer base. Never happened and never will. So, why would you keep pissing away money on something that proves not worthy of investment?

So true, Jeff loves racing, however he knows not to throw good money after bad

Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: Papillon on June 04, 2025, 09:13:13 AM
I would not say he does not care. More like, the public dose not care. Jeffery invested heavily to promote and build a customer base. Never happened and never will. So, why would you keep pissing away money on something that proves not worthy of investment?

if he cared about improving handle--he would race Sunday nights and Monday or Tuesday afternoons

he would see a 10-20% increase on those pathetic numpers--so I re-iterate he doesn't care

...and of course the public doesn't want the product from either of those two tracks
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: The Exporter on June 04, 2025, 09:31:45 AM
So, a 10%20% increase in handle. They now average somewhere around $10K a race. Lets go to the high end, 20% increase grosses $2,000 and if it were all bet on track,
 yields maybe $400. $180 to the purse account and $180 to the house. The balance to the state.
 What would be the cost of a 20% increase in handle. I don't know but I am sure we could agree it would be thousands a day.
 It is a sure bet, Jeffery and company has done the math.
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: Papillon on June 04, 2025, 10:00:36 AM
So, a 10%20% increase in handle. They now average somewhere around $10K a race. Lets go to the high end, 20% increase grosses $2,000 and if it were all bet on track,
 yields maybe $400. $180 to the purse account and $180 to the house. The balance to the state.
 What would be the cost of a 20% increase in handle. I don't know but I am sure we could agree it would be thousands a day.
 It is a sure bet, Jeffery and company has done the math.

why would it cost more to run on a Sunday night as opposed to a Saturday night?

if it does, then I agree its not worth it
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: rainman2 on June 04, 2025, 12:48:57 PM
My friend took down a P4 pool, I think he netted over 1K

Would there be more money to be taken if there were bigger pools??
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: talkstohisself on June 04, 2025, 01:06:21 PM
Rainman Tioga is fun time the track handle is tiny.  haven't been yet this year because of the lousy weather but hopefully soon  .A friend of mine rented a place for the Belmont got a chance to  tag along,  but looking at the weather  Saratoga is the worse place to be when it rains with the crowd, stay home save money
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: Grandstand Handicapper on June 04, 2025, 02:24:28 PM
Gural has not stopped his lobbying efforts since day one for the tax rate/table revision for the casino. It may not be front and center, but it's there. He wants revenue, casino, racetrack, hotdogs, doesn't matter. Look, he's a horsemen. People doubt that. People also doubt Elvis died. Regardless, I think the low takeout #'s are fallacious. You can't bet substantial dollars into the pools. So what difference does any of it make? None. He can show low takeout #'s and use it as just another reason.
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: Scooteroo on June 04, 2025, 02:30:30 PM
Would there be more money to be taken if there were bigger pools??

If the Pick 4 takeout is 21% and the pool is $1500, after the takeout, there's $1185. If the pool doubles to $3000, there's $2370 left after takeout. Chances are you'll have more winning tickets the bigger the pool is unless alot of longshots come in.
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: CMJAnew on June 06, 2025, 05:00:57 AM
And it cost about $80,000 per race day. Maybe less when the lights aren’t on.
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: Parked on June 06, 2025, 06:09:08 AM
I remember some time back he said the take out at vernon and Tioga was the lowest allowed by the state.  Don’t know is that is still the case.   Why does the state control the take out. ?  If I want to sell my product at less than production costs why should they say anything about that ?
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: Yonkers1A on June 06, 2025, 06:15:54 AM
I remember some time back he said the take out at vernon and Tioga was the lowest allowed by the state.  Don’t know is that is still the case.   Why does the state control the take out. ?  If I want to sell my product at less than production costs why should they say anything about that ?

Because it’s NY and we have a gigantic welfare state to support.

Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: wiseowl on June 06, 2025, 07:01:31 AM
If I go to the window and the horse I am betting is 3 to 1 that is what I am betting the average guy no nothing about a take out  unless it is at the drive thru.
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: Scooteroo on June 06, 2025, 07:28:56 AM
FanDuel/TVG covers all the races from Los Alamitos, be it T-Breds or Quarter Horses. At the Quarter Horses they always advertise the Early Pick 4 as the "best bet in racing" and the pool averages anywhere from $150,000 to $200,000, but they don't mention one word about the takeout being 20.18% which is high, and certainly not the best bet in racing. Many years ago some of the simulcast programs used to list the takeout rates for each track but they did away with that long ago.
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: bello on June 06, 2025, 10:38:58 AM
I love Tioga. If you have never been, go. I make 2 dollar bets there every card due to small handles. More for entertainment as the racing is good.

Take a look and bet a few tonight. 13 races including NY Sire Steaaks and a claiming series. A must for those traveling to Saratoga Thorobreds.
Title: Re: take out rates Tioga downs 2025
Post by: Scooteroo on June 06, 2025, 10:48:47 AM
Going to Saratoga T-Breds for the first time in August for 4 days with a few friends of mine.
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