HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: OF JENNY on May 29, 2025, 12:02:45 AM
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Let us know mike. The people are waiting.
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Every commission and governing body has all the hard evidence now. Up to them.
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Unfortunately Mike that might not even in any suspensions. I don't think there's any hope for the game. I really don't. Bettors getting fleeced with high takeouts and no new betting options. From the demand side, yearling prices will drop big time this year as more and more people realize that if you don't have a decent horse, you're capital goes basically to zero. The costs associated with keeping a horse are astronomical these days and most owners simply can't afford to pay. Add to that the diehards that have been racing against the top outfits are done doing that as well. The amount of contraction in this sport in the past five years is staggering, so many tracks closed and few new people entering the workspace. If it was any other industry I'd say there's a chance but not how this sport is structured and governed and to be honest subsidized. It's over folks!
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Unfortunately Mike that might not even in any suspensions. I don't think there's any hope for the game. I really don't. Bettors getting fleeced with high takeouts and no new betting options. From the demand side, yearling prices will drop big time this year as more and more people realize that if you don't have a decent horse, you're capital goes basically to zero. The costs associated with keeping a horse are astronomical these days and most owners simply can't afford to pay. Add to that the diehards that have been racing against the top outfits are done doing that as well. The amount of contraction in this sport in the past five years is staggering, so many tracks closed and few new people entering the workspace. If it was any other industry I'd say there's a chance but not how this sport is structured and governed and to be honest subsidized. It's over folks!
Well it ain't on me. I will go down as the only horseman who tossed it all to try. Doesn't hurt me in the least. The people still in it don't stand a chance against the scumbags if this doesn't result in some messages sent.
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People need to call and email the commissions and governing bodies, the more noise and pressure put on them, the better.
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People need to call and email the commissions and governing bodies, the more noise and pressure put on them, the better.
Exactly, been repeating that all week. Even anonymously.
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Exactly, been repeating that all week. Even anonymously.
You have said it for the past few years, mostly on deaf ears.
Some of us do actually do it. But more need to.
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You have said it for the past few years, mostly on deaf ears.
Some of us do actually do it. But more need to.
I figure it this way. When the decoupling comes, and it will, all I'm gonna say is I told you so.
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You think participants haven't been screaming for the past 20 years. The tracks are mostly owned by casinos and as you've stated on more than one occasion, they are a nuisance for them. They would like nothing better than to decouple and have horse racing out of their business. The few remaining ones that aren't owned by casinos either have Jeff or some corporate/Agriculture/board of governors running the day to day affairs. From them, Jeff is the only one that has really tried to do anything about the explosion in drugs. I give him credit for at least trying but am in concert with many on here with regards to his "picking and choosing" method. WEG is a rudderless ship, they let Moreau go for a decade without addressing the elephant in the room. The lesser tracks are less plagued simply due to economics, that is there is no sense in buying $500 of BB3 to win a race carrying a 6K purse.
The local racing commissions specifically and the industry leaders in general are to blame for the decline of harness racing. Everyone knows that when you can't make it doing the horses, you run to become a race office scrub or apply to become a judge. From there you get what one would expect: an incompetent race secretary and an incompetent racing official, which only hurst the overall product even more. So until you clean shop and hire the right people to do the best possible job, the product will continue to evaporate, little by little, just how it has for the past twenty years. We're way beyond a reprehensible vet and a few scumbag owners manipulating a dozen gullible trainers. With the exception of the mid-Ohio market and Kentucky, this sport is heading toward extinction. If you just look at Ontario, the first place that had an explosion due entirely to slots, it took about ten years to go bust. Exactly the same thing is happening in New York and any other jurisdiction where purses have soared. Ontario failed on a level you can't imagine--if governed properly (see Hong Kong racing officials) and ran with vision, i.e purchase those B tracks of the casino companies for peanuts, hire intelligent people to product wagering and find inventive ways to get your product to the people to increase handle. But they didn't do shit, they thought it would never stop so why do any work. They were screaming for names back then too Mike, I could give you a few but why bother those that know, know. Now they're basically toast up there, very few tracks an ever-decreasing list of owners willing to invest and an attendance as low as a hundred people on most nights. But on a postive note Mike, I do have the fix if you're interested in cutting a new thread. Where's there are horses, there is passion and where's there is passion, there is hope.
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Screaming for names? Why weren't they BRINGING THE NAMES!?! Is it everyone else's job to support and fight for the industry???? I always hear people say they saw this or that. Did they turn it in? Did they obtain the proof? Not even once. Which I do get because they're afraid. But now there should be THOUSANDS of horsemen demanding what I've started be finished. There has been a bunch. But could be a shitload more. Fucking fight for your sport!!!! You have the upper hand!!!!!
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Screaming for names? Why weren't they BRINGING THE NAMES!?! Is it everyone else's job to support and fight for the industry???? I always hear people say they saw this or that. Did they turn it in? Did they obtain the proof? Not even once. Which I do get because they're afraid. But now there should be THOUSANDS of horsemen demanding what I've started be finished. There has been a bunch. But could be a shitload more. Fucking fight for your sport!!!! You have the upper hand!!!!!
Bingo! tmbz1
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You think participants haven't been screaming for the past 20 years. The tracks are mostly owned by casinos and as you've stated on more than one occasion, they are a nuisance for them. They would like nothing better than to decouple and have horse racing out of their business. The few remaining ones that aren't owned by casinos either have Jeff or some corporate/Agriculture/board of governors running the day to day affairs. From them, Jeff is the only one that has really tried to do anything about the explosion in drugs. I give him credit for at least trying but am in concert with many on here with regards to his "picking and choosing" method. WEG is a rudderless ship, they let Moreau go for a decade without addressing the elephant in the room. The lesser tracks are less plagued simply due to economics, that is there is no sense in buying $500 of BB3 to win a race carrying a 6K purse.
The local racing commissions specifically and the industry leaders in general are to blame for the decline of harness racing. Everyone knows that when you can't make it doing the horses, you run to become a race office scrub or apply to become a judge. From there you get what one would expect: an incompetent race secretary and an incompetent racing official, which only hurst the overall product even more. So until you clean shop and hire the right people to do the best possible job, the product will continue to evaporate, little by little, just how it has for the past twenty years. We're way beyond a reprehensible vet and a few scumbag owners manipulating a dozen gullible trainers. With the exception of the mid-Ohio market and Kentucky, this sport is heading toward extinction. If you just look at Ontario, the first place that had an explosion due entirely to slots, it took about ten years to go bust. Exactly the same thing is happening in New York and any other jurisdiction where purses have soared. Ontario failed on a level you can't imagine--if governed properly (see Hong Kong racing officials) and ran with vision, i.e purchase those B tracks of the casino companies for peanuts, hire intelligent people to product wagering and find inventive ways to get your product to the people to increase handle. But they didn't do shit, they thought it would never stop so why do any work. They were screaming for names back then too Mike, I could give you a few but why bother those that know, know. Now they're basically toast up there, very few tracks an ever-decreasing list of owners willing to invest and an attendance as low as a hundred people on most nights. But on a postive note Mike, I do have the fix if you're interested in cutting a new thread. Where's there are horses, there is passion and where's there is passion, there is hope.
The business can’t and will never overcome the biggest issue, when giving the option, people love casinos and hate harness racing. 99% of America has never watched a harness race. Even if the sport could clean itself up, nobody cares outside the people in the business and old timers like me who loved the sport are dying every day. Decoupling will be the final nail way before the sport is cleaned up. This is truly the fox guarding the hen house. With people like Ford and with Banca’s partner/ attorney in leadership roles is like having the house and senate voting for term limits
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I have to disagree with you there my friend. There are casino people and there are racehorse people, two different crowds that can co-exist. We can thrive without the casino/slot customers but not without the best possible people at every position. It is possible but highly improbable so we can agree on that for sure. In the casino biz, they are highly intelligent people that are judged on results or their gone. In this biz we hire ex catch drivers to figure shit out---always cracks me up.
And I think you missed the point Mike: back in the day there were many owners that call in to WEG to ask for change. They even got WEG to start a D barn for the select few that were winning a high clips. In typical fashion the WEG brass, along with an anemic racing commission, couldn't figure out that D barns don't stop the blood building crew. They only exposed the milk shake guys who by that time had transitioned away from the baking soda to the not detected aranesp. You just help dumb people, especially when they really couldn't give a shit.
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I was around back in the day. And it's not back in the day anymore. The same criminals we need gone are the same people governing the game. As for two different customers, sure they can co-exist AND cross over each way. However, total wagered compared to this day last year is down almost 14%. Down nearly 9% per race. Last year it was about the same decrease. Know what kind of money that equals lost??? Numbers don't lie, GAMBLERS are not betting horse racing anywhere near what is necessary. Thus why just in NYS, 84% of the purses are subsidies. That's embarrassing. Literally welfare.
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Wagering is down for a variety of reasons, most noticeably because of localized casino and online sports gaming. But horse racing has done a poor job of promoting our product on television. Every production is a joke with guys yapping about nonsense instead of providing insights to betting angles. The disparity between the T breds and us are alarming. But I'm getting tired of ranting nonstop about the game, too many people that aren't qualified to be at the table have a seat. In just about every capacity of the industry. Look at TNT with basketball, must see TV. Look at TNT hockey with that crew and how insightful and entertaining they are. Then take a look at our production, a bunch of tools that should be selling hot dogs at the concession stand. I stopped watching and betting about three years ago, save for the big days, because I just couldn't stand listening to the nonsense. Horse racing could be a major hit on TV and for the gamblers, there's no doubt about that but not without a major facelift and retooling. Sport needs a commissioning to act on it's behalf, someone to lead it forward and regain it rightful place in society.
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Wagering is down for a variety of reasons, most noticeably because of localized casino and online sports gaming. But horse racing has done a poor job of promoting our product on television. Every production is a joke with guys yapping about nonsense instead of providing insights to betting angles. The disparity between the T breds and us are alarming. But I'm getting tired of ranting nonstop about the game, too many people that aren't qualified to be at the table have a seat. In just about every capacity of the industry. Look at TNT with basketball, must see TV. Look at TNT hockey with that crew and how insightful and entertaining they are. Then take a look at our production, a bunch of tools that should be selling hot dogs at the concession stand. I stopped watching and betting about three years ago, save for the big days, because I just couldn't stand listening to the nonsense. Horse racing could be a major hit on TV and for the gamblers, there's no doubt about that but not without a major facelift and retooling. Sport needs a commissioning to act on it's behalf, someone to lead it forward and regain it rightful place in society.
Without sponsorship there's no mainstream media presence. Without a fan base already in place no business will invest advertising into something nobody watches. Not to mention the HORRIBLE public perception of the game, which it has more than earned.
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The sport still enjoys thousands and thousands of fans and that's something. And although wagering is plummeting annually, there is still a hefty amount of money wagered on the sport. Advertisers are always there and are always looking to attract customers by any means possible. If you hired someone sharp and produced a product worthy of the sponsorship and gaming dollar, they will come. Why they can't figure this out is a testament to what many like you and I believe: there exists a cohort of people in charge that are just incapable of a devising a strategy that could unleash the potential of horse racing. It's just not us here in standardbred land Mike, look at what Cali has done to the T bred product. Here's hoping someone can get the correct people around a table which can result in an amazing leadership group that in turn can turn things around throughout North America.
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The sport still enjoys thousands and thousands of fans and that's something. And although wagering is plummeting annually, there is still a hefty amount of money wagered on the sport. Advertisers are always there and are always looking to attract customers by any means possible. If you hired someone sharp and produced a product worthy of the sponsorship and gaming dollar, they will come. Why they can't figure this out is a testament to what many like you and I believe: there exists a cohort of people in charge that are just incapable of a devising a strategy that could unleash the potential of horse racing. It's just not us here in standardbred land Mike, look at what Cali has done to the T bred product. Here's hoping someone can get the correct people around a table which can result in an amazing leadership group that in turn can turn things around throughout North America.
This is a gross exaggeration. I went to the Sun Stakes at Pocono. The biggest day of racing at that track on a beautiful Saturday afternoon. They did not have even on refreshment stand open. There were tow food trucks but one left because there was so little business. I could have easily handicapped the next race, placed my wagers, and counted all of the people in attendance in between one race.
The last time I went to Northfield, they did not even have the lights on on the second floor. Attendance at The Jug is down substantially. They did not even need to replace the bleachers which were torn down. The Red Mile is not very crowded even on Futurity Day.
The industry has turned its back on the fans and the fans are gone.