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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Papillon on April 03, 2025, 09:12:29 AM
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Karl will end up being known as the greatest trotter ever.
.Once again...Karl will be remembered as the greatest trotter of all time.
Correct. Everyone of these assholes had Muscle Hill on their top trotter list. How many races on a small track did he compete in? Also, I predict Karl races next year.
Karl would have jerked the bridle off of horses like Mack Lobell,Varenne, Ourasi, Moni Maker, Peace Corp, etc. He trots in 1:50 every week. None of them had the innate ability to do so. Were they champions? Of course they were but evolution has made Karl a faster horse than them. This is not an opinion, it is fact. Just like horses, humans have become faster and stronger due to evolution, as well. Every 1-2 generations, carbon based life forms evolve into stronger, faster and even smarter beings. Please don't give me the "track surface" and "inferior equipment" excuse. If you don't think evolution is real, go look at a basketball game from the 60's. Michael Jordan or Lebron James in their present day shape would have averaged 200 point per game against players from that era. If their was a time machine that could take Usain Bolt back to the 1960's, he would have won his sprints by yards and not inches. All athletes of today, whether it is humans or equines are superior to the competitors of 40-50 years ago.
You don't understand evolution and you certainly don't understand the theory of racing. Maybe the reason that you are a gambler and not a horsemen makes it hard for you to comprehend that the fastest horse wins the race. Karl is seconds faster than those horses. I don't care how much class they have, I don't care how much better bred they are and I don't care how much sounder they are. The bottom line is Karl is faster than them and would eat them for lunch every day and twice on Sunday.
The teletimer is the only FACT when judging a horse's performance. I need a good laugh. Name something else factual and not subjective about judging the performance of a racehorse.
I AM STILL WAITING GENIUSES>>>>>>>>>>The teletimer is the only FACT when judging a horse's performance. I need a good laugh. Name something else factual and not subjective about judging the performance of a racehorse.
Cam Fella was great for 1982. He never broke 1:53 in his life. He couldn't beat a 10K claimer in 2024.
Karl will end his career as the greatest trotter ever.
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,LAST YEAR I posted that Karl should win Horse of the Year and was bashed. Once again douchebag...Karl will be remembered as the greatest trotter EVER!!
Karl will end up being the greatest trotter that ever lived.
, I think Karl, when all is said and done will be a GOAT candidate.
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And this is only a small SAMPLE of MIKE CAMPBELL’S (KARL’S) “LIMITED KNOWLEDGE” of harness racing!
Now look at his knowledge of other issues in harness racing.
Now add his disposition towards others here on horseplop.
Enough said.
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One of those who touts every year as "this horse is the best Trotter/pacer/ racehorse of all time! In all my years..."
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Who's the best, We'll know in October. Happens every year.
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I stand by every post. I want to thank you for reposting those works of art, as Karl is not done writing his resume.
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I stand by every post. I want to thank you for reposting those works of art, as Karl is not done writing his resume.
Does anyone care about the horse Karl anymore?
Many other horses to follow this upcoming season!!
Are you still getting PAID by Karl’s entourage to promote him?
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Does anyone care about the horse Karl anymore?
Are you still getting PAID by Karl’s entourage to promote him?
He had them balls in his mouth for free!
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We all wish we owned a horse like that. I have no problem with Mike giving his opinion. At least he has a horse to cheer for. lok55 95xz.2
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Mike made a bold prediction. In my opinion it didn't come true. I don't think that it should be a topic & should be let go...but each is their own.
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Mike made a bold prediction. In my opinion it didn't come true. I don't think that it should be a topic & should be let go...but each is their own.
If it was “normal” everyday banter, then yes, let it go!
However, look how he treats the horseplop community when there is disagreement. MIKE (KARL) went to ‘great lengths’ and did some things that should not be done on horseplop.
Sorry, his past actions and track records speaks for itself here.
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I will say this, although I completely disagreed with Mike about Karl and his obsession with the horse was rather strange, I am intrigued since he is shooting blanks so to speak how his 4 year old campaign will be. The last we heard about him was back in December. Is the plan still to race? If so will he be protected like he was his whole career with excuses for bad starts or only racing on a mile oval? The older trotting ranks are pretty weak this upcoming season, so IF he races he had better dominate the competition. If he comes back and does not dominate the competition then his stud value will plumit IF he becomes fertile so to speak. Only time will tell the rest is just opinion and speculation.
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Update straight from Nancy on Harness Racing Update is that he is in training and will race this year and they collected enough semen for 75 to 80 mares and that will be it for breeding this year. Karl is mentioned around the 4 or 5 minute mark.
https://youtu.be/RPG_-VrHOc0?si=V2QyfSymk8yk2NuA
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Mike made a bold prediction. In my opinion it didn't come true. I don't think that it should be a topic & should be let go...but each is their own.
nothing wrong with making a bold prediction and being way wrong-we all have done that
but to dig your heels in, insisting you are correct-then go and disparage some of the all time legends who have trotted-that is where it is topic worthy and should not be forgotten or let it go
....but to each his own
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nothing wrong with making a bold prediction and being way wrong-we all have done that
but to dig your heels in, insisting you are correct-then go and disparage some of the all time legends who have trotted-that is where it is topic worthy and should not be forgotten or let it go
....but to each his own
How did I disparage any horse? I called them all champions. I guess your 4th grade education is finally biting you in the ass.
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Cam Fella was a 1:53 pacer. Nothing more, nothing less. I know some people that would Amish their horses if that is all they could go.
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Correct. Everyone of these assholes had Muscle Hill on their top trotter list. How many races on a small track did he compete in? .
Karl would have jerked the bridle off of horses like Mack Lobell,Varenne, Ourasi, Moni Maker, Peace Corp, etc. He trots in 1:50 every week. None of them had the innate ability to do so. Were they champions? Of course they were but evolution has made Karl a faster horse than them. This is not an opinion, it is fact. Just like horses, humans have become faster and stronger due to evolution, as well. Every 1-2 generations, carbon based life forms evolve into stronger, faster and even smarter beings. Please don't give me the "track surface" and "inferior equipment" excuse. If you don't think evolution is real, go look at a basketball game from the 60's. Michael Jordan or Lebron James in their present day shape would have averaged 200 point per game against players from that era. If their was a time machine that could take Usain Bolt back to the 1960's, he would have won his sprints by yards and not inches. All athletes of today, whether it is humans or equines are superior to the competitors of 40-50 years ago.
. Rambling Willie, Tarport Hap, Silk Stockings all great horses would have a hard time getting checks in mid level races at M1 or Yonkers in 2024. Idiots are posting things like you are looking at the timer and not the horse. Well fuck yes, I am looking at the timer. The fastest horse gets the trophy morons and the horses from yesteryear would not be able to keep up in 2024.
Peace Corp 152:4 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
Moni Maker 152:1 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
Mack Lobell can't hold on off a half in 57.2 in March Of Dimes. Mile goes in 155:1 What a super horse!! ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Like I said, 4th grade education is biting you in the ass. I don't expect you to understand. If posting out of context replies helps you prove your point, go ahead.
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Update straight from Nancy on Harness Racing Update is that he is in training and will race this year and they collected enough semen for 75 to 80 mares and that will be it for breeding this year. Karl is mentioned around the 4 or 5 minute mark.
https://youtu.be/RPG_-VrHOc0?si=V2QyfSymk8yk2NuA
Not breeding any this year. Its frozen till next year and from what I have heard enough to get about 40 mares in foal if they are lucky.
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Not breeding any this year. Its frozen till next year and from what I have heard enough to get about 40 mares in foal if they are lucky.
Correct about the breeding this year as I misspoke that they are freezing it, but Nancy did say there was enough for 75 to 80 mares. Whether that's accurate I guess we will find out next year. tmbz1
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Correct about the breeding this year as I misspoke that they are freezing it, but Nancy did say there was enough for 75 to 80 mares. Whether that's accurate I guess we will find out next year. tmbz1
If he could breed 80 mares at top dollar stud fee. There would be no reason to try to bring him back after a 60% year if hind suspensory. At 30k he would only need 40 foals to make more than he can racing, not even factoring in the lameness
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If he could breed 80 mares at top dollar stud fee. There would be no reason to try to bring him back after a 60% year if hind suspensory. At 30k he would only need 40 foals to make more than he can racing, not even factoring in the lameness
30k? No offense to the horse, but at 30k, he'd be standing there all breeding season long watching every other stallion do their thing.
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30k is a reach but could easily get 20k. With Muscle Hill just about done and Tactical Approach shooting blanks a Muscle line sure is needed.
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They weren't going to get 20k when they first retired him. I get the pedigree piece of it, but the market still has to bear and accept the number. I get that last time they were trying to syndicate him, and the number is going to correlate with the share price, but they did not get a favorable reaction to 15k or higher. Who knows what they'll do now. Set aside Chapter Seven and Walner, and you have how many stallions more than 10k? Three? Four? I don't play the hypothetical breeding game, but the demand was just not there.
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Btw, I think Bowen got hyped up on the horse and pressed the pen a bit too hard.
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Evidently they have been drawing him but have just maybe 50 straws frozen so he sure is not a powerhouse sperm producer. How many breeders want to take a chance with their great mares on a poor quality sperm stud that was lame most of his races?? Maybe give him a try on a mare that is in heat in February and March and then move on. The contract would have to have that clause written in.
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They weren't going to get 20k when they first retired him. I get the pedigree piece of it, but the market still has to bear and accept the number. I get that last time they were trying to syndicate him, and the number is going to correlate with the share price, but they did not get a favorable reaction to 15k or higher. Who knows what they'll do now. Set aside Chapter Seven and Walner, and you have how many stallions more than 10k? Three? Four? I don't play the hypothetical breeding game, but the demand was just not there.
Tactile Landing 25k Tactile Approach 12k Gimpanzee 20k TCI in Ohio 10k all
with books full and closed their first year
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I don't think you can compare Karl to Tactical Landing. Two very different stallions.....and at 5k apart?
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Does anyone care about the horse Karl anymore?
Many other horses to follow this upcoming season!!
Are you still getting PAID by Karl’s entourage to promote him?
Karl was a nice horse and deserves recognition. I happen to care about Karl and enjoyed watching him race.
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I don't think you can compare Karl to Tactical Landing. Two very different stallions.....and at 5k apart?
Racing wise you are correct Tactical Landing did nothing but break as a two year old while Karl won over a million bucks! Breeding wise you are incorrect as Tactical Landing is the SIRE of Karl
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I stand by every post. I want to thank you for reposting those works of art, as Karl is not done writing his resume.
Karl will get his head caved in even worse than last yr. My prediction is he will qua two or three times and have a mysterious injury and retire. Jimmy knows he didn't get bigger or faster and will be even further behind to all the horses that grew and got better.
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Karl will get his head caved in even worse than last yr. My prediction is he will qua two or three times and have a mysterious injury and retire. Jimmy knows he didn't get bigger or faster and will be even further behind to all the horses that grew and got better.
LOL. Yeah Karl has really gotten his head caved in.18 wins and 3 places in 23 starts. Only trotter in history to earn over 1 million at 2 and 1 million at 3. My only question to you is...Drugs? Alcohol? Both?
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I don't get the hatred for Karl...must be like the Beckwith bullshit. The more you hear people say he will be the greatest, the more you cheer against. Karl has had a great career so far, one of the best in history. Can't deny stats. But I don't think he is coming back to dominate older horses.
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Racing wise you are correct Tactical Landing did nothing but break as a two year old while Karl won over a million bucks! Breeding wise you are incorrect as Tactical Landing is the SIRE of Karl
And today is Monday. Congratulations on the obvious. Look at the pedigrees and look at what the market said. All the rest is posturing.
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The price for breeding with Karl is pure speculation at this point. If he comes out and has a great 4 year old campaign his price will go up. However if he goes out and shit's the bed the price will plumit. Seeing as all the specimens they collected will be frozen until next year, we won't know the price until next year It will all depend on how his 4 year old campaign goes. Personally I am glad he is racing this year. I like when the better horses race past their three year old year. The resentment towards him is because 1 individual insisted he would be "remembered" as the GOAT which rubbed alot of people the wrong way.
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The price for breeding with Karl is pure speculation at this point. If he comes out and has a great 4 year old campaign his price will go up. However if he goes out and shit's the bed the price will plumit. Seeing as all the specimens they collected will be frozen until next year, we won't know the price until next year It will all depend on how his 4 year old campaign goes. Personally I am glad he is racing this year. I like when the better horses race past their three year old year...
Dead on perfect. Couldn't agree more. Personally, I found the frozen idea interesting. I guess what is also speculation is whether his fertility issue(s) will be better, worse, or the same next year. Or the year after for that matter.
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The price for breeding with Karl is pure speculation at this point. If he comes out and has a great 4 year old campaign his price will go up. However if he goes out and shit's the bed the price will plumit. Seeing as all the specimens they collected will be frozen until next year, we won't know the price until next year It will all depend on how his 4 year old campaign goes. Personally I am glad he is racing this year. I like when the better horses race past their three year old year. The resentment towards him is because 1 individual insisted he would be "remembered" as the GOAT which rubbed alot of people the wrong way.
The frozen semen from this year can not be used for breeding next year. It has to be used in the season collected maybe it will work for overseas sales but not by USTA rules
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The frozen semen from this year can not be used for breeding next year. It has to be used in the season collected maybe it will work for overseas sales but not by USTA rules
Rule changed recently:
The United States Trotting Association (USTA) allows the use of frozen semen for artificial insemination in the breeding season or year following the breeding season, as per a recent amendment to Rule 26.05. If using frozen semen, you must state where the semen was shipped to on the List of Mares Bred form.
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I don't think you can compare Karl to Tactical Landing. Two very different stallions.....and at 5k apart?
This won't be a popular opinion but I think Tactical Landing is overrated and overpriced.
I am in no way saying he is a bad sire, but look at his stats. He didn't crack the top 5 average per starter for 2, 3 nor aged lists last year. He did fare better in 3yo overall earnings but he had a son win the Hambo, and several other from that crop win stakes events, but with how many foals he puts on the ground he ought to have been higher. He puts a lot of trash on the track, but he can also clearly throw a top-tier foal, and that's what most everyone wants. I would be more than happy to have one, but to breed a mare to him at $25k seems high based on his actual output. $15k was about right based on how he performed as a sire, but I also found it extremely high as a starting point based on what he did on the track himself.
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The frozen semen from this year can not be used for breeding next year. It has to be used in the season collected maybe it will work for overseas sales but not by USTA rules
Is this correct? I am almost positive they used both Cantab Hall and Bar Hopping frozen for the breeding season a year after their death.
ETA: Nevermind. I see the post above clarified the rule change.
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Rule changed recently:
The United States Trotting Association (USTA) allows the use of frozen semen for artificial insemination in the breeding season or year following the breeding season, as per a recent amendment to Rule 26.05. If using frozen semen, you must state where the semen was shipped to on the List of Mares Bred form.
Thanks I missed that rule change
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Is this correct? I am almost positive they used both Cantab Hall and Bar Hopping frozen for the breeding season a year after their death.
ETA: Nevermind. I see the post above clarified the rule change.
The only one I have close ties with is the SBSW connections and the frozen semen had to be used in the year he passed
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If Karl was a super horse then Diamond Creek would have paid the money and they would be standing him stud. Facts are Facts - He raced no one until Hambo then lucked up and won. After Hambo when he actually had to race under pressure and against mediocre to decent horses he got crushed. He never got faster from 2 to 3 and his gate didn't get any better in fact actually got worse. Yannick was yelling and nursing him the majority of his starts to keep him flat. Any driver that you talk to behind closed doors will tell you "he's fake and he has no heart" Breeders take those statements very near and dear to their wallet. Adam is no dummy and listens to other drivers opinion not just Yannick and Nancy telling him bullshit. The horse did not grow from 3 to 4 and mark my words WILL NOT be any better or mature to compete with 4yo's. He come to his speed very fast as a 2yo and was dominate but as with all horses that peak to soon they are done quick. Time will tell but I will go along with DC and bet against.
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Karl was managed to almost perfection by “the stallion maker”. Unfortunately most of his great ones did not make stallions and many had fertility problems. Just like Bill Robinson
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Karl was managed to almost perfection by “the stallion maker”. Unfortunately most of his great ones did not make stallions and many had fertility problems. Just like Bill Robinson
A not often discussed topic.....what trainers make stallions and what trainers don't.
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If Karl was a super horse then Diamond Creek would have paid the money and they would be standing him stud. Facts are Facts - He raced no one until Hambo then lucked up and won. After Hambo when he actually had to race under pressure and against mediocre to decent horses he got crushed. He never got faster from 2 to 3 and his gate didn't get any better in fact actually got worse. Yannick was yelling and nursing him the majority of his starts to keep him flat. Any driver that you talk to behind closed doors will tell you "he's fake and he has no heart" Breeders take those statements very near and dear to their wallet. Adam is no dummy and listens to other drivers opinion not just Yannick and Nancy telling him bullshit. The horse did not grow from 3 to 4 and mark my words WILL NOT be any better or mature to compete with 4yo's. He come to his speed very fast as a 2yo and was dominate but as with all horses that peak to soon they are done quick. Time will tell but I will go along with DC and bet against.
Drugs? Alcohol? Both?
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He is built fine like a filly - that will make it very tough on him as an aged horse to knock heads. I do think it’s a pretty weak group with so many of the best heading to stud but a few of them will pop up. Ake will find a few, Periculum should be back, Logan Park, Oh Well, Highland Kismet, etc.
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Karl was managed to almost perfection by “the stallion maker”. Unfortunately most of his great ones did not make stallions and many had fertility problems. Just like Bill Robinson
LMFAOO...Bill Robinson was 100% juicer. He got disgraced over & over again.
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Drugs? Alcohol? Both?
I could be on both and still know reality my friend. You on the other hand are hard headed and delusional. So your telling us all the Yannick isn't yelling at him the whole first turn in just about every start? You saying he is 100% sound? Your saying he didn't get beat by second rate horses in KYSS Championship, KY Futurity and every other race after Hambo? You saying is got faster and better during 3yo year or weaker and more lame? Just the facts Dano just the facts!
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I could be on both and still know reality my friend. You on the other hand are hard headed and delusional. So your telling us all the Yannick isn't yelling at him the whole first turn in just about every start? You saying he is 100% sound? Your saying he didn't get beat by second rate horses in KYSS Championship, KY Futurity and every other race after Hambo? You saying is got faster and better during 3yo year or weaker and more lame? Just the facts Dano just the facts!
You're a goofball. You keep on saying he has no heart but then you say he isn't sound. Well, if he isn't sound then he must have a ton of heart because he won 18 out of 23 lifetime starts and made a million bucks each year he raced.