HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: OF JENNY on March 05, 2025, 12:23:30 PM
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on the usta website they are doing damage control from an article in the new york times. the industry is dieing a slow death.
i still think it can be saved but it would need DRASTIC CHANGES. im not sure anyone within the usta has the balls to make such changes. its many changes not just the dope or the fraud. if it doesnt happen fast it wall all be a distant memory.
the industry was called out. lets see how this plays out over time.
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"called out" with quite a few lies and omissions.
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What they are steering away from is that casino tax money given to the horsemen could be used for something everyone benefits from or lower others tax obligations. Horsemen feel entitled to this money yet keep shooting themselves in the foot at every turn. Whether it’s dying horses or federal doping scandals, why are horsemen entitled to anything? I love harness racing, but something needs to change.
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fantastic. so all racetracks are self sufficient.
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they wanna talk about how lasix is therapeutic (oh look we are trying to help them). do horses get lasix in the wild? among other things that get put into there systems?
do you think these animals want to do what they are doing? maybe some.
take away the casino money now where are you at? non-functional and bankrupt.
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First, I don't think it's a matter of anyone at the USTA having the balls-----I think it's the intellect, the capability, capacity, etc.! Second, the USTA does not have the standing (or the credibility) to do this either. It will be a weak message, from a weak organization. Third, they simply are not a governing body. Plain and simple. When a person or organization, that doesn't have the standing, authority, or scope (vis a vis their authoritative purview) starts to insert themselves into controversial, fragile, difficult, etc., situations, when they take positions, make statements, tries to bring about change-----it makes matters worse.
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First, I don't think it's a matter of anyone at the USTA having the balls-----I think it's the intellect, the capability, capacity, etc.! Second, the USTA does not have the standing (or the credibility) to do this either. It will be a weak message, from a weak organization. Third, they simply are not a governing body. Plain and simple. When a person or organization, that doesn't have the standing, authority, or scope (vis a vis their authoritative purview) starts to insert themselves into controversial, fragile, difficult, etc., situations, when they take positions, make statement, tries to bring about change-----it makes matters worse.
tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
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two sentences
casino money harness racing
no casino money no harness racing...
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two sentences
casino money harness racing
no casino money no harness racing...
I guess we can debate whether that's a sentence or not, LOL, however, I have two questions.....one, all "casino money," are those monies all "subsidies?" Two, what about monies from the (respective) state(s), whatever you want to call it, purse enhancements, aid, whatever.....are all those monies "subsidies" as well?
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i would have to say both are subsidising the harness racing industry.
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Why do you think casinos are at racetracks?
Oh ya, the property is licensed for gaming.
Seems like those casinos NEEDED the racetrack in order to get started.
Places like WEG are simply landlords now, charging rent. They don't get a cut of casino action.
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but now the casinos are self sustaining which the racetracks are not. so are they just suppose to carry the tracks forever and ever?
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Why do you think casinos are at racetracks?
Oh ya, the property is licensed for gaming.
Seems like those casinos NEEDED the racetrack in order to get started.
Places like WEG are simply landlords now, charging rent. They don't get a cut of casino action.
Wait are you saying the racetracks would survive without casino $$? Who the f cares what it is licensed for....bottom line is once this info gets out to the general pop they will all say WHATTHEFUCK?
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DOGE INCOMING
CLEAN UP THE WASTE
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The casino owners knew what they were getting into when they signed up with racetracks. They are the ones trying to wiggle out of their agreement.
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i would have to say both are subsidising the harness racing industry.
Being that the original poster didn't answer, and you did, thanks for answering. That said, let's just look at this from a different perspective, and examine the monies, or subsidies, from the State. If these are subsidies, then what's the goal? Why give the monies? So the track doesn't shut down? Why do states and the US government give subsidies to----farmers, many other businesses, industries, and individuals as well.
For farmers and the farming industry, States and the US government provides subsidies----non-repayment loans, free gap and stop-loss insurance protection and coverage (they pay cash when weather and/or insects damage crops and agricultural products), and yes, cash, they give actual cash! They also pay to further develop and build new and modern farming practices, conservation efforts and practices, disaster aid, and more. Both give subsidies to defense contractors as well.
States and the US government gives----loans, tax breaks, and yes grants, to energy and energy development businesses. They also give subsidies to numerous manufacturing industries/companies. Same with the aviation industry/companies. Also broadband and telecommunication s companies. They do even more for the railroad industry. There is state and US government subsidies for education, private school tuition vouchers. Let's reach a bit further, in addition, there are state and US government subsidies for housing. Is Medicaid and Medicare not a form of subsidy?
My point is that people throw around the word subsidy, absent of facts, definition, and case-specifics. Maybe they are good, maybe bad. Maybe some are good and some are bad. Anyone and everyone who simply states without casinos and state money the track would close, are simply saying today is Wednesday. What's your point? Do you want to see the track close? It's Wednesday, yes, and that might be factually correct. But, it's not Wednesday everywhere in the world right now. Regardless, the person who says that----no casino/state money, no track---they are not a supporter or a fan of this sport and are not a participant in this business. Just because they say it's Wednesday. They can say they are. But IMO they are not. They are part of the problem, because they are not part of the solution.
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And BTW, does anyone really want the USTA involved in this type of discussion (subsidies, state monies, casino monies, purse accounts, etc.)? If I owned a racetrack, I would PAY MONEY to USTA to keep them out of the discussion. Isn't that a subsidy?
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The casino owners knew what they were getting into when they signed up with racetracks. They are the ones trying to wiggle out of their agreement.
Why should a business be forced to keep a product that loses money? Even worse. why should a business be forced to subsidies a business that loses money? The only "agreement" is something each state can rescind at any time.
The fact is 99% of taxpayers could care less about racing. They would rather it go to something they do care about.
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Being that the original poster didn't answer, and you did, thanks for answering. That said, let's just look at this from a different perspective, and examine the monies, or subsidies, from the State. If these are subsidies, then what's the goal? Why give the monies? So the track doesn't shut down? Why do states and the US government give subsidies to----farmers, many other businesses, industries, and individuals as well.
For farmers and the farming industry, States and the US government provides subsidies----non-repayment loans, free gap and stop-loss insurance protection and coverage (they pay cash when weather and/or insects damage crops and agricultural products), and yes, cash, they give actual cash! They also pay to further develop and build new and modern farming practices, conservation efforts and practices, disaster aid, and more. Both give subsidies to defense contractors as well.
States and the US government gives----loans, tax breaks, and yes grants, to energy and energy development businesses. They also give subsidies to numerous manufacturing industries/companies. Same with the aviation industry/companies. Also broadband and telecommunication s companies. They do even more for the railroad industry. There is state and US government subsidies for education, private school tuition vouchers. Let's reach a bit further, in addition, there are state and US government subsidies for housing. Is Medicaid and Medicare not a form of subsidy?
My point is that people throw around the word subsidy, absent of facts, definition, and case-specifics. Maybe they are good, maybe bad. Maybe some are good and some are bad. Anyone and everyone who simply states without casinos and state money the track would close, are simply saying today is Wednesday. What's your point? Do you want to see the track close? It's Wednesday, yes, and that might be factually correct. But, it's not Wednesday everywhere in the world right now. Regardless, the person who says that----no casino/state money, no track---they are not a supporter or a fan of this sport and are not a participant in this business. Just because they say it's Wednesday. They can say they are. But IMO they are not. They are part of the problem, because they are not part of the solution.
The difference at least some of those subsidze go to things the many taxpayers want. Very few taxpayer would care if racing ended.
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a couple of thoughts here for
did nobody here the POTUS rhyme off the billions of dollars the USA government wastes with absolutely no return, just sending money to pit holes in other parts of the world, just to clarify harness racing does provide jobs and does have a significant multiplier effect on the economy, trucks, hay, vets equipment etc etc
you make it sound like any "subsidies" just get pissed away with no return
harness racing keeps many people from needing to go on unemployment etc
and stop whining about the casinos, they did the deal and they would do it again in a heartbeat based on the money they make from being allowed to have casinos and wagering on race track land
ease up already
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Harness racing should welcome HISA or at least an across the board regulatory body that has no bias . Racing jurisdiction bow down to certain connections now and it's not just and a huge part of the reason why it's in the state it is now. A lot of the article is true and that's the scary fact
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a couple of thoughts here for
did nobody here the POTUS rhyme off the billions of dollars the USA government wastes with absolutely no return, just sending money to pit holes in other parts of the world, just to clarify harness racing does provide jobs and does have a significant multiplier effect on the economy, trucks, hay, vets equipment etc etc
you make it sound like any "subsidies" just get pissed away with no return
harness racing keeps many people from needing to go on unemployment etc
and stop whining about the casinos, they did the deal and they would do it again in a heartbeat based on the money they make from being allowed to have casinos and wagering on race track land
ease up already
Well said. Totally agree with you and Grandstand's comments.
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Why should a business be forced to keep a product that loses money? Even worse. why should a business be forced to subsidies a business that loses money? The only "agreement" is something each state can rescind at any time.
The fact is 99% of taxpayers could care less about racing. They would rather it go to something they do care about.
Learn the law before you spout misinformation about the casino/racetrack agreement. Taxpayer remorse is a separate issue.
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Why should a business be forced to keep a product that loses money? Even worse. why should a business be forced to subsidies a business that loses money? The only "agreement" is something each state can rescind at any time.
The fact is 99% of taxpayers could care less about racing. They would rather it go to something they do care about.
Why should a business be forced to keep a product that loses money? Well, generically speaking, not case specific, normally a business can't be forced into that...unless it is legislatively mandated. Meaning, unless it's the law. That changes the entire complexion of the conversation. For example, like in FL. It was the law. When a casino bought a racetrack in FL, they did so with full awareness and knowledge of what the law was, what they had to do, were obligated to do, etc. So, they knew the deal, every single part of the deal----because it was the law. And guess what, they did it anyway. Yes, they then tried to change the law, and they did...but until then, you cannot say "forced"----it was their acceptance of the law, and their decision. No forcing at all.
Then you say, "why should a business be forced to subsidies a business that loses money?" I don't even understand what that means. A business forced to subsidies a business? Do you mean subsidize? As far as your reference to an agreement, that too, I simply don't understand. If a state gives money, it's legislative. It has to be, because it is part of the budget. I don't know what agreement(s) you are referring to.
When NJ passed a law that said you can have VLT's outside of Atlantic City, Monmouth Park got the right(s) to get them, there on the grounds of the racetrack. The Atlantic City casinos decided----decided! They were not forced----to PAY Monmouth Park NOT to get the VLT's. Was that a subsidy? Absolutely not. It was a business decision. It was a business transaction. The fact that Monmouth Park made a bad deal, and didn't make intelligent decisions with the money, is Monmouth Park's problem. If anyone says that was a subsidy, please, say it clearly and loud so I know who to ignore moving forward.
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a couple of thoughts here for
did nobody here the POTUS rhyme off the billions of dollars the USA government wastes with absolutely no return, just sending money to pit holes in other parts of the world, just to clarify harness racing does provide jobs and does have a significant multiplier effect on the economy, trucks, hay, vets equipment etc etc
you make it sound like any "subsidies" just get pissed away with no return
harness racing keeps many people from needing to go on unemployment etc
and stop whining about the casinos, they did the deal and they would do it again in a heartbeat based on the money they make from being allowed to have casinos and wagering on race track land
ease up already
The "deal" was the government. If you were a casino owner you would be trying to eliminate racing. Why keep a business that loses money. This is taxpayer money. Why should that money go to something the taxpayers could care less about? The racing industry took the handouts and turned its back on its customers. The industry does not deserve the handouts.
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Learn the law before you spout misinformation about the casino/racetrack agreement. Taxpayer remorse is a separate issue.
The reality the "law" is what ever the state says the law is. PA has already made attempts to change the "law". The next time there is a budget crisis in PA the handouts are gone.
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Why should a business be forced to keep a product that loses money? Well, generically speaking, not case specific, normally a business can't be forced into that...unless it is legislatively mandated. Meaning, unless it's the law. That changes the entire complexion of the conversation. For example, like in FL. It was the law. When a casino bought a racetrack in FL, they did so with full awareness and knowledge of what the law was, what they had to do, were obligated to do, etc. So, they knew the deal, every single part of the deal----because it was the law. And guess what, they did it anyway. Yes, they then tried to change the law, and they did...but until then, you cannot say "forced"----it was their acceptance of the law, and their decision. No forcing at all.
Then you say, "why should a business be forced to subsidies a business that loses money?" I don't even understand what that means. A business forced to subsidies a business? Do you mean subsidize? As far as your reference to an agreement, that too, I simply don't understand. If a state gives money, it's legislative. It has to be, because it is part of the budget. I don't know what agreement(s) you are referring to.
All it takes is a vote and signature and the law is gone.
When NJ passed a law that said you can have VLT's outside of Atlantic City, Monmouth Park got the right(s) to get them, there on the grounds of the racetrack. The Atlantic City casinos decided----decided! They were not forced----to PAY Monmouth Park NOT to get the VLT's. Was that a subsidy? Absolutely not. It was a business decision. It was a business transaction. The fact that Monmouth Park made a bad deal, and didn't make intelligent decisions with the money, is Monmouth Park's problem. If anyone says that was a subsidy, please, say it clearly and loud so I know who to ignore moving forward.
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When the original contracts were done at harness tracks in NY, there were specific benchmarks that were in place as targets or goals. The money was to enhance the purses as to recruit and retain new owners. To enhance the live experience of the sport. To give harness racing a protection from lost market share of the gaming industry.
Also, a a separate earmark was awarded to the breeding industry to enhance the breed and spread the industry out with new investment of farms and foal count.
Everyone was in complete agreement this was just what the industry needed. A subsidy that would accomplish the goal of expanding the fan base , shore up the purse accounts. Protect the game and expand everyone's business. I clearly recall how so many people thought VLTs were great for mom as dad would plat the horses.
Only one of these goals would happen. The purse accounts swelled. Everything else went even further backwards.
The original contract was for 7 years. But, because performance was never factored into renewals, the same shit was renewed. The next 7 years was more of the same. Everything dropped but the purses.
The breeding actually dropped by half!!! During the second contract , breeding numbers were at there lowest point since the inception of the program. There were twice as many foals and stallions standing in NY the year before the 2004 opening of the first VLTs at Saratoga.
In the 3 rd edition of welfare, the industry wide drug sandal was the top story. With witnesses claiming , under oath to have fixed races along with the drugging of horses.
So, what has the industry done to deserve additional welfare?
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When the original contracts were done at harness tracks in NY, there were specific benchmarks that were in place as targets or goals. The money was to enhance the purses as to recruit and retain new owners. To enhance the live experience of the sport. To give harness racing a protection from lost market share of the gaming industry.
Also, a a separate earmark was awarded to the breeding industry to enhance the breed and spread the industry out with new investment of farms and foal count.
Everyone was in complete agreement this was just what the industry needed. A subsidy that would accomplish the goal of expanding the fan base , shore up the purse accounts. Protect the game and expand everyone's business. I clearly recall how so many people thought VLTs were great for mom as dad would plat the horses.
Only one of these goals would happen. The purse accounts swelled. Everything else went even further backwards.
The original contract was for 7 years. But, because performance was never factored into renewals, the same shit was renewed. The next 7 years was more of the same. Everything dropped but the purses.
The breeding actually dropped by half!!! During the second contract , breeding numbers were at there lowest point since the inception of the program. There were twice as many foals and stallions standing in NY the year before the 2004 opening of the first VLTs at Saratoga.
In the 3 rd edition of welfare, the industry wide drug sandal was the top story. With witnesses claiming , under oath to have fixed races along with the drugging of horses.
So, what has the industry done to deserve additional welfare?
In Pennsylvania this arrangement can be undone by the government. Up till now the legislature had enough votes to block it. When the situation where taxes have to go up to pay for things the voters actually care about like roads, bridges, and schools, they will not be able to block it. The question is why should this money be used to support an industry the vast majorly of voters could care less about. What has the industry done to make itself self-supporting? What has the industry done to attract more customers? The answer is nothing. The industry took the handouts and turned its back on the customers.
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When the original contracts were done at harness tracks in NY, there were specific benchmarks that were in place as targets or goals. The money was to enhance the purses as to recruit and retain new owners. To enhance the live experience of the sport. To give harness racing a protection from lost market share of the gaming industry.
Also, a a separate earmark was awarded to the breeding industry to enhance the breed and spread the industry out with new investment of farms and foal count.
Everyone was in complete agreement this was just what the industry needed. A subsidy that would accomplish the goal of expanding the fan base , shore up the purse accounts. Protect the game and expand everyone's business. I clearly recall how so many people thought VLTs were great for mom as dad would plat the horses.
Only one of these goals would happen. The purse accounts swelled. Everything else went even further backwards.
The original contract was for 7 years. But, because performance was never factored into renewals, the same shit was renewed. The next 7 years was more of the same. Everything dropped but the purses.
The breeding actually dropped by half!!! During the second contract , breeding numbers were at there lowest point since the inception of the program. There were twice as many foals and stallions standing in NY the year before the 2004 opening of the first VLTs at Saratoga.
In the 3 rd edition of welfare, the industry wide drug sandal was the top story. With witnesses claiming , under oath to have fixed races along with the drugging of horses.
So, what has the industry done to deserve additional welfare?
Exporter knows NY racing. Generally when subsidies are enacted you get more of, makes sense, subsidies Wheat , the Wheat farmer grows more because he’s price protected. Exporter correctly points with subsidies, it’s gone the opposite way, this is telling that the public doesn’t want it and it’s time to end the subsidies.
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We are on the same page, Yonkers1 and Kenny. I have no problem with the government funding an initiative to correct or otherwise improve an industry. But, I have no desire to continue to support an industry that not only fails to improve its position but goes backwards with every dollar that it thrown at. Taxpayer dollars.
In New Jersey, they experimented with purse subsidies. And to a degree, there were signs of life and improvement with the first seeding.
Then Gural and company want an enhanced deal and a longer commitment to receiving the hand out. So, the Governor makes a deal for $30 million for 5 years but, there must be increases in what everyone agrees is leading benchmark of success, the handle. So, Gural needs to improve the handle. He does everything in convectional conventional marketing strategies yet, results are negligible.
With nothing left in his arsenal, Gural resorts to a poison pill, computer animated wagering and generous rebates, based on volume.
Bottom line , the handle hits the mark and the Governor signs the 5 year deal.
I must say, the breeding industry has really stepped up it's game. They have done a great job with their program.
But, Gural, in usual fashion claimed he is tiered of pulling money out of his pockets to fund the racing program. He cuts stake races and tells us without additional gaming, The New Meadowlands will not make it more than a couple years.
In my opinion, the current political climate of cut waste and spending gaining traction every day, may be the one dagger racing could not overcome.
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We are on the same page, Yonkers1 and Kenny. I have no problem with the government funding an initiative to correct or otherwise improve an industry. But, I have no desire to continue to support an industry that not only fails to improve its position but goes backwards with every dollar that it thrown at. Taxpayer dollars.
In New Jersey, they experimented with purse subsidies. And to a degree, there were signs of life and improvement with the first seeding.
Then Gural and company want an enhanced deal and a longer commitment to receiving the hand out. So, the Governor makes a deal for $30 million for 5 years but, there must be increases in what everyone agrees is leading benchmark of success, the handle. So, Gural needs to improve the handle. He does everything in convectional conventional marketing strategies yet, results are negligible.
With nothing left in his arsenal, Gural resorts to a poison pill, computer animated wagering and generous rebates, based on volume.
Bottom line , the handle hits the mark and the Governor signs the 5 year deal.
I must say, the breeding industry has really stepped up it's game. They have done a great job with their program.
But, Gural, in usual fashion claimed he is tiered of pulling money out of his pockets to fund the racing program. He cuts stake races and tells us without additional gaming, The New Meadowlands will not make it more than a couple years.
In my opinion, the current political climate of cut waste and spending gaining traction every day, may be the one dagger racing could not overcome.
The breeding industry is the biggest villain. Fans identify with stars. In harness racing the top stars race as few races as possible at a very limited number of tracks and then are off to a breeding farm never to be seen again. This pattern kills fan interest. Ultimately it is the handouts that fuel this behavior.
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That is all horse racing. A top TB usually averages about 10 starts lifetime
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they wanna talk about how lasix is therapeutic (oh look we are trying to help them). do horses get lasix in the wild? among other things that get put into there systems?
do you think these animals want to do what they are doing? maybe some.
take away the casino money now where are you at? non-functional and bankrupt.
No horses don’t get Lasix in the wild. When the suffer from EIPH they die and get eaten by predators.
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That is all horse racing. A top TB usually averages about 10 starts lifetime
Standardbreds are racing less and less, retiring earlier and earlier, and race at less and less tracks. Confederate is a prime example.
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No horses don’t get Lasix in the wild. When the suffer from EIPH they die and get eaten by predators.
[/quote
THATS GODS PLAN. STICKING NEEDLES IN HORSES IS NOT. IM OK WITH LASIX. ITS THE OTHER THINGS THEY ARE INJECTED WITH. AND DONT SAY IT DOESNT HAPPEN CAUSE WE ALL KNOW IT DOES.
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I agree that no one should ever be allowed to dope a horse for performance purposes (or a person) but it happens to both. The problem I have is these idiots that call using a very beneficial therapeutic medication doping.
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Standardbreds are racing less and less, retiring earlier and earlier, and race at less and less tracks. Confederate is a prime example.
Confederate raced 22 times in his career. 15 starts at 3, which equals approximately 3 starts a month during stake season. In the other hand Mage the 2023 Derby winner raced 7 times in his whole career
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Confederate raced 22 times in his career. 15 starts at 3, which equals approximately 3 starts a month during stake season. In the other hand Mage the 2023 Derby winner raced 7 times in his whole career
True true. What about that freak of nature Flightline. After breaking his maiden, and an allowance win-----he raced what, 4 times over two racing seasons? Then retired undefeated at 4. But they said he was sound! LOL.
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Confederate raced 22 times in his career. 15 starts at 3, which equals approximately 3 starts a month during stake season. In the other hand Mage the 2023 Derby winner raced 7 times in his whole career
In case you don't know this, Standardbreds and Thoroughbreds are not the same. If you want to keep thinking that way, you are only helping the decline of the sport of harness racing. People Identify with stars and harness racing sends there stars to breeding farms instead of the race track where the fans are.
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True true. What about that freak of nature Flightline. After breaking his maiden, and an allowance win-----he raced what, 4 times over two racing seasons? Then retired undefeated at 4. But they said he was sound! LOL.
Foiled again raced 331 times.
FOILED AGAIN 331
MCWICKED 110
GALLO BLUE CHIP 133
BEE A MAGICIAN 72
MISTER BIG 85
WIGGLE IT JIGGLEIT 66
WON THE WEST 109
MARKET SHARE 100
ETERNAL CAMNATION 101
MAGICIAN 111
ARCH MADNESS 119
ANNDROVETTE 144
ATLANTA 78
SWEET LOU 74
MR MUSCLEMAN 67
BOULDER CREEK 173
MARION MARAUDER 69
VIVID PHOTO 178
MUSCLE HILL 21
NIHILATOR 38
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dear kenny
taxpayer money , please there is no such thing, once the government collects that money no citizen has any say on its use
would you have supported "your" tax money being sent to Ukraine
of all the problems in the country harness racing would be pretty far down on the list
and if no harness racing what would all the grooms, trainers truckers etc do , there is not enough carnivals to employ all these people
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sounds like their problem. flip burgers.
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dear kenny
taxpayer money , please there is no such thing, once the government collects that money no citizen has any say on its use
would you have supported "your" tax money being sent to Ukraine
of all the problems in the country harness racing would be pretty far down on the list
and if no harness racing what would all the grooms, trainers truckers etc do , there is not enough carnivals to employ all these people
In PA, it is a TAX on slots play. And yes we do have some say, that is how Trump was elected. If a politician think they have a better chance of getting elected by supporting diverting these funds to some other purpose that is how they will vote.
As far as jobs go, if the funds are diverted from racing to roads, bridges, and schools, that will create jobs in those areas.
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In PA, it is a TAX on slots play. And yes we do have some say, that is how Trump was elected. If a politician think they have a better chance of getting elected by supporting diverting these funds to some other purpose that is how they will vote.
As far as jobs go, if the funds are diverted from racing to roads, bridges, and schools, that will create jobs in those areas.
So you think the money would be better spent if sent to a 3rd world nation that the politicians are rich and people are poor would be a better idea than supporting local agriculture and green spaces?
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So you think the money would be better spent if sent to a 3rd world nation that the politicians are rich and people are poor would be a better idea than supporting local agriculture and green spaces?
If the USA is not careful, this could very well happen here sooner than people realize!!!
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I had mentioned before [half jokingly] that they better hope Musk doesn't get bored and start
analyzing some of the money pumped into harness racing. As we've seen, if it happens, it comes
abruptly without much, if any warning.
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I had mentioned before [half jokingly] that they better hope Musk doesn't get bored and start
analyzing some of the money pumped into harness racing. As we've seen, if it happens, it comes
abruptly without much, if any warning.
Don’t worry too much about this. The money in harness racing today might not pay his child support for all of his children! ngc3
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He's chopping at a federal level. Don't see it reaching the state level. At least he
has the money to support kids he has. Something that is far from a given in the general public.
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we have no say
sure trump was elected based on what we/you thought he was going to do
but sometimes!! politicians change their mind once in office
as for roads, bridges and schools they are supposed to already have funding for those from the taxes collected , the fact they piss away money and cant budget properly should not fall on harness racing
i guess the difference is i actually enjoy the sport and am part of it , is it perfect ? of course not
for all the bashers on here if you are involved in the sport( doubtful for most ) than just get out and move on , you are perfectly free to do that rather than complain
thanks
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I had mentioned before [half jokingly] that they better hope Musk doesn't get bored and start
analyzing some of the money pumped into harness racing. As we've seen, if it happens, it comes
abruptly without much, if any warning.
it is the states decision to hand out slot welfare-not the feds
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A USTA thread/topic turns into a political discussion. Well, wonders never cease. That said, Musk is somewhat "unpredictable" so don't be so quick to think he's going to do away with subsidies blindly. Remember, Tesla, and other Musk companies receive a wide variety of government subsidies, grants, tax credits, and more.
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So you think the money would be better spent if sent to a 3rd world nation that the politicians are rich and people are poor would be a better idea than supporting local agriculture and green spaces?
The VOTERS. What percentage of the population cares if harness racing even exists? What percentage of those people support giving BILLIONS to racing? Compare that to the people who care about roads, bridges, and schools. Harness racing turned its back on the customers and the customer left.
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I had mentioned before [half jokingly] that they better hope Musk doesn't get bored and start
analyzing some of the money pumped into harness racing. As we've seen, if it happens, it comes
abruptly without much, if any warning.
The harness racing handouts are not federal dollars. However, as the funding of state programs is reduced or eliminated, the states will be looking for funds. PA has already been down that path several times. That was block by republicans from rural areas. That will change when the alternative is tax increases. Will the industry ever wake up?
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He's chopping at a federal level. Don't see it reaching the state level. At least he
has the money to support kids he has. Something that is far from a given in the general public.
As the funding of state programs is reduced or eliminated, the states will be looking for funds.
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we have no say
sure trump was elected based on what we/you thought he was going to do
but sometimes!! politicians change their mind once in office
as for roads, bridges and schools they are supposed to already have funding for those from the taxes collected , the fact they piss away money and cant budget properly should not fall on harness racing
i guess the difference is i actually enjoy the sport and am part of it , is it perfect ? of course not
for all the bashers on here if you are involved in the sport( doubtful for most ) than just get out and move on , you are perfectly free to do that rather than complain
thanks
I have been a fan for many deacdes. I have watched the industry take the handouts and turn its back on the fans. If that does not change, the future is bleak.
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it is the states decision to hand out slot welfare-not the feds
What decision will the states make when their federal funding is reduced or eliminated? Do you have any idea how much of state and local dollars are actually passthrough funds from the federal government?
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What decision will the states make when their federal funding is reduced or eliminated? Do you have any idea how much of state and local dollars are actually passthrough funds from the federal government?
eventually the states will stop handing out the welfare
its just a matter of time before they realize how dumb they have been--which may take awhile
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eventually the states will stop handing out the welfare
its just a matter of time before they realize how dumb they have been--which may take awhile
The Philadelphia newspaper has written several highly critical articles about this. There is going to be large demands on state funds as federal funding is reduced.
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Not that I want to feed into the political aspects of this, because I don't think there are any, however, I will speak to the economic aspects. Other than nobody being at all familiar with governmental accounting, and the equivalent of one-time write-downs and charge-offs of certain debt.....I think there will be a decisive and continual trend of increases and numbers which will result in more negative cash flows to states. The Fed, under both parties, will send less money to states. Less Fed funding. States will be forced into dealing with it. When a state goes out of business, they don't cease to exist.
Since most people believe that the states are simply "giving out money" to the racetracks, that won't stop. It will just be "different" money. Less, but different. Regardless, racetracks do and will be forced into becoming self-sufficient. And they will. That is just one reason why they will be very different in the future. They will still benefit from alternative revenue sources. Perhaps one day decoupling will be a national norm/law. That may rid the sport of casino ownership. But eventually racetracks will have alternative sources of gambling/wagering/betting, and the casino companies will still want that. And guess what...they will pay for it!!!
Oh, and bring this back to the USTA topic...the USTA will have nothing to do with this! They can't. They are incapable!
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The Philadelphia newspaper has written several highly critical articles about this. There is going to be large demands on state funds as federal funding is reduced.
The sad reality is that all the so called news sources. Will not ever mention how much money the state gets from casinos that is not earmarked for horse racing and agriculture. In PA alone billions have gone to state coffers for education,infrastructure etc and nothing he’s changed. Except the politicians get richer