HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: THE KING OF ALL BLACKS on September 26, 2024, 08:11:07 AM
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Was thinking how many farms or families/ track workers will be effected from the closure of freehold.
I know of four families that are scratching their heads on how to proceed. They have small farms with some cheap horses they race part time that will have to get out of the business.
What about some of the training farms that have horses that exclusively race Freehold?
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Green Acres ran its course now Freehold has, we all adept to change differently. Harness racing is on life support. I sold all my buggy horses, stop betting on them now I only bet T breds. My money is on the Cowboys, I’m a Giants fan, however I’m switching most of my betting money to Sports, I’m trying to adept.
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Most will adapt and move on.
Some it will be like getting a notice that your welfare is ending.
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It's going to hurt. It's all part of purge and cleanse. While NJ only has 2 tracks, this was the second tier one. Will NJ horsemen suck it up and race at the lower levels elsewhere? Where? Shipping costs, higher labor costs. Not easy. Some will leave the business, some will relocate, some will stay and race elsewhere. I for one don't want to see the Meadowlands absorb horses that they normally wouldn't.
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It's going to hurt. It's all part of purge and cleanse. While NJ only has 2 tracks, this was the second tier one. Will NJ horsemen suck it up and race at the lower levels elsewhere? Where? Shipping costs, higher labor costs. Not easy. Some will leave the business, some will relocate, some will stay and race elsewhere. I for one don't want to see the Meadowlands absorb horses that they normally wouldn't.
Interesting concept. I’m not sure it would be profitable for the Meadowlands to ask for more dates to race cheaper horses.
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Let's get real. The M[1] Has/is already taking those type of horses. The crown is already irrevocably
tarnished. Why stop now? 11.wp
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Interesting concept. I’m not sure it would be profitable for the Meadowlands to ask for more dates to race cheaper horses.
You got me on that. Track management is too hung up on # of races. They count each race as X dollars and don't see the forest in all the trees.
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Why in the hell would you want the shit show horses anywhere near the Meadowlands. It's bad enough now, without putting more crap races on. Remember when the bottom rung was 15k claimers or N/W of 2? And Joe or Tad would put Non Competitive in entry sheets. Long way down. Where do these horses go? I don know, time for some people to get out. Sorry if it's not feasible for Freehold stock to ship to Monti
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Gural complains that he keeps losing money with the Meadowlands. And the quality gets cheaper and cheaper each year. Who would have dreamed that a $4,000 claimer ships in jogs in a race? To have 68 and under Trackmaster races is probably even cheaper and he had many of those. They ran so many amateur races to fill cards. There is no way he runs a meet with Freehold horses to make up their normal days without giving him a boatload of money. From where the money comes from. who knows??
Maybe run the meet at the training centers like Fair racing? Could happen
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How can anyone pay a trainer $3,000 + to race 3X a month at a place like Freehold? You would need to be in the top 10% of the earners to break even on expenses alone.
As for blaming the track owners for this track's demise is foolish. All the experts say they should have invested more in marketing and advertising. Should have remodeled the place to bring in the crowds.
So, how much did Gural invest in "The New Meadowlands" to host a crowd of 1200 or so ? How much has he spent on every gimmick and marketing stunt they could think of?
How much on advertising?
As long as a dude can sit at home with a box of Twinkies, a can of PBR beer and his cell phone, betting every track around the world, every major sport, all the advertising in the world will not bring enough people to a track or sports book to and make it work.
We have about a half dozen tracks, all Thoroughbred that make a real profit. Harness is not even on the same page.
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Why in the hell would you want the shit show horses anywhere near the Meadowlands. It's bad enough now, without putting more crap races on. Remember when the bottom rung was 15k claimers or N/W of 2? And Joe or Tad would put Non Competitive in entry sheets. Long way down. Where do these horses go? I don know, time for some people to get out. Sorry if it's not feasible for Freehold stock to ship to Monti
I think it would be more formidable than amateur races at the Meadowlands on a Friday night.
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How can anyone pay a trainer $3,000 + to race 3X a month at a place like Freehold? You would need to be in the top 10% of the earners to break even on expenses alone.
As for blaming the track owners for this track's demise is foolish. All the experts say they should have invested more in marketing and advertising. Should have remodeled the place to bring in the crowds.
So, how much did Gural invest in "The New Meadowlands" to host a crowd of 1200 or so ? How much has he spent on every gimmick and marketing stunt they could think of?
How much on advertising?
As long as a dude can sit at home with a box of Twinkies, a can of PBR beer and his cell phone, betting every track around the world, every major sport, all the advertising in the world will not bring enough people to a track or sports book to and make it work.
We have about a half dozen tracks, all Thoroughbred that make a real profit. Harness is not even on the same page.
I can’t disagree with that.
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Howard Bruno the general manager of freehold raceway has done absolutely nothing to promote harness racing throughout the last couple of years let alone care about the 93 track employees that will be out of work!
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I think Gural said he'd only add dates if he got Freehold's allocation of state money. Even if he got that, if he's still losing money, then he shouldn't add dates. I say give him a casino!!! LOL.
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I can see betting 7500 claimers on the mile track . Balmoral would have a good handle on those and up the ladder . Definitely nothing cheaper these folks need to consolidate and buy one or 2 decent claimers and sell the others to Maine or Canada
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I think Gural said he'd only add dates if he got Freehold's allocation of state money. Even if he got that, if he's still losing money, then he shouldn't add dates. I say give him a casino!!! LOL.
I agree as well.. he deserves a Casino! Could you imagine if he did not recreate the Meadowlands there would be no more harness racing in New Jersey.
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Sad. I think NJ had five (5) tracks at one time. Now we have two. Gone are Garden State, Atlantic City, and Freehold. Does A/C still open two or three days a year?
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Interesting concept. I’m not sure it would be profitable for the Meadowlands to ask for more dates to race cheaper horses.
I was thinking the same thing.
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Interesting concept. I’m not sure it would be profitable for the Meadowlands to ask for more dates to race cheaper horses.
I don't think it will be.
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He’s getting the allocation.
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Where will the Freehold horsemen relocate to when Freehold closes?
Monticello
Saratoga--opens in February I believe
Rosecroft
Other
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Where will the Freehold horsemen relocate to when Freehold closes?
Monticello
Saratoga--opens in February I believe
Rosecroft
Other
I don’t think it will be that easy some have families also own homes in the area.
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If I were Gural, and I have no idea if he's losing money but I'll take his word for it that he is, I would not want to ADD race dates. I would try and capture the upper-end horses that could possibly be competitive at the Meadowlands. I don't think that will raise the quality standard, but it could make it more competitive in the classes where these horses could potentially do. Remains to be seen. Who knows. The quality of horses will never be what it was. Remember years ago on a Saturday night---you had 50 claimers, 75's, winners over, Open/Inv/FFA and the purses were reflective of that. If you had a Saturday night or weekend stable like Lofty Bruce, you were making a hell of a living. That's what was always lacking elsewhere.
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Freehold has 26 more race dates after being open over 100 years it’s crazy . Nobody will know there was a track there 50 years from now . Google it will be the only means to know it existed . So crazy watching this thing fade away .
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All horsemen were outside CASINO MONTREAL every day trying to cause havoc and no one cared and years later every single person i talk with said to me it was the best day of my life as i never had money and owed everyone,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, The grooms just got a brake if they leave the industry as the last thing they want to be is a trainer and most do not know it,,,,,,,,,,,,, HAS anyone watched racing from that place as all you see is single file racing and a outside park that is like running in quicksand,,,,,,,,,,, Only people making money are crooked vets and management,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,LIFE AT FREEHOLD IS NOT A FAIRY TALE ITS A SHITHOLE,,,,,,,, plus when they have sires races top drivers take all the money because of afternoon racing,,,,,,
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Freehold has 26 more race dates after being open over 100 years it’s crazy . Nobody will know there was a track there 50 years from now . Google it will be the only means to know it existed . So crazy watching this thing fade away .
Correction, no one will know there was a track there 5 years from now! See Pompano Park [RIP] right now and it has been only 2.5 years!
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Pompano had a nicer history and a great place to go or older trainers that paid their dues and did not want to get up in freezing weather and train their horses and the crew that ran pompano was leagues better than FREEHOLD people,,,,,,,,,, They hosted the breeders crown and Freehold never applied to host the crown......
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This may sound heartless, but the majority of owners at Freehold lose money year after year because their horses are cheap and the purses are low. The bottom line is, the majority of them will save money when the track closes. As for the backstretch help, most of the better stables have a shortage of grooms so jobs will be available. As for the track employees, there really aren't many live tellers anymore with self-service betting machines.
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Yes it definitely will be a favor to the below the poverty line horsemen and owners . They probably will be able to eat steak instead of burgers now . The purses are almost comical in an area that’s so wealthy . Racing 2 days a week for 4k purses . Doesn’t add up financially.
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How many horses that race at Freehold would ship to Meadowland's, shipping and tolls. I can't see Gural wanting more dates, to race more crap, they have more than enough.
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Jason Settlemoir brags about how great their product is. Other than a handful of nights, the product is cheap and filled with amateur races with cheap horses. Jeff Gural always cries poor and talks about how he saved The Meadowlands, but he really only did it in hopes of getting a casino there and making millions.
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Bingo tmbz1
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This may sound heartless, but the majority of owners at Freehold lose money year after year because their horses are cheap and the purses are low. The bottom line is, the majority of them will save money when the track closes. As for the backstretch help, most of the better stables have a shortage of grooms so jobs will be available. As for the track employees, there really aren't many live tellers anymore with self-service betting machines.
there are 96 track employees that will be out of a job.
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Jason Settlemoir brags about how great their product is. Other than a handful of nights, the product is cheap and filled with amateur races with cheap horses. Jeff Gural always cries poor and talks about how he saved The Meadowlands, but he really only did it in hopes of getting a casino there and making millions.
I agree I hope he succeeded.
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People lose jobs all the time, and most of the 96 employees are older people. They'll collect severance pay and unemployment, then they can get a job at Wawa or a greeter at Wal-Mart.
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That property that Freehold raceway sits on must be worth a mint.
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No severance except for Bruno. Why do you think he ran it into the ground for years. His golden parachute.
This closure is too bad. Freehold could have made it with a touch of marketing and management.
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Nobody goes to the track anymore so in my opinion marketing wouldn't have made a difference.
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No severance except for Bruno. Why do you think he ran it into the ground for years. His golden parachute.
This closure is too bad. Freehold could have made it with a touch of marketing and management.
I totally agree!
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Nobody goes to the track anymore so in my opinion marketing wouldn't have made a difference.
I disagree. With the right creative persistent marketing I think it would've made it. They did absolutely nothing to attract people. A friend of mine runs one of the biggest car show organizations in New Jersey it would've attracted a lot of people they never heard back from freehold management after multiple emails and calls thousands usualy attend. That's just one example of many.
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You're only talking about a handful of promotions which might attract a few thousand people who bet $10. In my opinion, Bruno gave up on the track years ago and wasn't going to spend anything to promote it.
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Everyone is going to have an opinion, say they could have made it if they did this, did that, marketing, promotions, attract this, bring in that, and so on. However, nobody has seen the financials. It would take a complete and total overhaul, turn-around, and regenesis as that place has been run into the ground. Based upon the last time I was there, I am sure it would cost---a lot---to upgrade not just the building, but the entire facility/plant/property. Who knows if daytime harness racing could still work today. Other than their own racing, they have no content.
Is the sportsbook an automatic (subject to licensing, approval, etc.)? Same with the two OTW locations? They did have two, right? Other than the one in Woodbridge or whatever town that's called, I never saw the other one(s).
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Everyone is going to have an opinion, say they could have made it if they did this, did that, marketing, promotions, attract this, bring in that, and so on. However, nobody has seen the financials. It would take a complete and total overhaul, turn-around, and regenesis as that place has been run into the ground. Based upon the last time I was there, I am sure it would cost---a lot---to upgrade not just the building, but the entire facility/plant/property. Who knows if daytime harness racing could still work today. Other than their own racing, they have no content.
Is the sportsbook an automatic (subject to licensing, approval, etc.)? Same with the two OTW locations? They did have two, right? Other than the one in Woodbridge or whatever town that's called, I never saw the other one(s).
You brought up a great point I would love to see the financials!!
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Who drives a successful entertainment enterprise? The youth. Who are playing video games, on TikTok, going to Taylor Swift concerts, on their phones 24 hours a day and still living with their parents in their 30s. That used to be the crowd who went out on the weekends looking for a good time. The same crowd who also went to the racetracks. Add in nobody wants to wait for gratification anymore. Fast, in, out then move onto the next stimulation. A lot of other businesses are long gone for the same reasons that didn't have injections of subsidy to keep it afloat. So first question, and be honest with yourself. Do you ever see this industry becoming a viable and relevant form of entertainment that can be profitable and fly on its own. That's without trying to convince the public that it isn't rigged, abusive, using drugs on horses and filled with criminals. Like I said last week, the two biggest press releases regarding harness racing in the last decade have been the federal sting and Freehold closing. We need a Caitlin Clark of harness racing. A story that people can't ignore. What would that take? It's not about speed anymore. Does anyone on the street know who Bulldog Hanover is? If there are ten chapters in the story of harness racing, is it possible we're in chapter 9 or 10? I was a fool two years ago thinking that if people spoke up and fought back the sport could somehow change its perception with the public and possibly be seen again as a legitimate sport that might even interest a slice of the younger crowd. Well that was a HUGE fucking mistake and miscalculation wasn't it. You have leadership spending millions to fight integrity and transparency and is also willing to do anything to silence anyone who dares expose certain truths. One by one we're seeing it shrink. The stars are aligning for government oversight. The fact that is even on the table is an embarrassment and proof just how gross the business is today. JMO.
P.S. Horsemen in general need to be taught just how much it truly costs to operate a racetrack and fund its purse account. They really don't have a clue. I'm seeing that more with the comments I read about Freehold and how they think it can be saved.
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Bottom line is, alot of the older people who used to go to the racetrack have passed away. Young people have so many other things to do they have no interest in horse racing. Racetrack managements have done little or nothing to attract new people to the track, plus with the advent of ADW's and off-track wagering, there's no reason to come to the track when you can wager from the comforts of home.
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Bottom line is, alot of the older people who used to go to the racetrack have passed away. Young people have so many other things to do they have no interest in horse racing. Racetrack managements have done little or nothing to attract new people to the track, plus with the advent of ADW's and off-track wagering, there's no reason to come to the track when you can wager from the comforts of home.
Exactly, you get it.
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Let them die in peace . There is no savior coming to rescue that place . Gural only got in hoping for that mega casino deal . Plus Gural is worth 6 billion according to Forbes .
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Let them die in peace . There is no savior coming to rescue that place . Gural only got in hoping for that mega casino deal . Plus Gural is worth 6 billion according to Forbes .
Net worth is significantly different than liquidity on had, yes, most of the liquid is buried and safe however, you can usually cut that by 70% and get what they will actually have on hand.
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Yet he's always crying how he's losing money at The Meadowlands!
The idea of the game is to not lose money anywhere. Just because he has money means he's supposed to carry the place? That's a typical horseman attitude. Free ride at someone else's expense.
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My problem with Gural is he wants to have it both ways. He takes credit for saving The Meadowlands as its proclaimed savoir yet in the next breath he claims he's losing money. Nobody likes to lose money, but rich people don't understand what it's like living paycheck to paycheck. He did his good deed, now STFU!
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My problem with Gural is he wants to have it both ways. He takes credit for saving The Meadowlands as its proclaimed savoir yet in the next breath he claims he's losing money. Nobody likes to lose money, but rich people don't understand what it's like living paycheck to paycheck. He did his good deed, now STFU!
I emailed him about Gaagoots last month and who he is. Since Settlemoir was pissed about the racial shit here which I do agree. Jeff was telling me he broke his pelvis in two places. IMO he doesn't need the nonsense. On the other hand maybe he enjoys it. Who knows. Bottom line is it's his playground and he does as he pleases.
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Freehold was getting 1.6 million from the state. They should make a million or two from the OTBS. If they had a clue they would've had sports betting from the jump. That should have added another few million. This would've allowed racing to continue & the purses be okay. Mismanagement at it's best & most likely planned. If not everyone in power to make decisions needs to be fired.
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Who drives a successful entertainment enterprise? The youth. Who are playing video games, on TikTok, going to Taylor Swift concerts, on their phones 24 hours a day and still living with their parents in their 30s. That used to be the crowd who went out on the weekends looking for a good time. The same crowd who also went to the racetracks. Add in nobody wants to wait for gratification anymore. Fast, in, out then move onto the next stimulation. A lot of other businesses are long gone for the same reasons that didn't have injections of subsidy to keep it afloat. So first question, and be honest with yourself. Do you ever see this industry becoming a viable and relevant form of entertainment that can be profitable and fly on its own. That's without trying to convince the public that it isn't rigged, abusive, using drugs on horses and filled with criminals. Like I said last week, the two biggest press releases regarding harness racing in the last decade have been the federal sting and Freehold closing. We need a Caitlin Clark of harness racing. A story that people can't ignore. What would that take? It's not about speed anymore. Does anyone on the street know who Bulldog Hanover is? If there are ten chapters in the story of harness racing, is it possible we're in chapter 9 or 10? I was a fool two years ago thinking that if people spoke up and fought back the sport could somehow change its perception with the public and possibly be seen again as a legitimate sport that might even interest a slice of the younger crowd. Well that was a HUGE fucking mistake and miscalculation wasn't it. You have leadership spending millions to fight integrity and transparency and is also willing to do anything to silence anyone who dares expose certain truths. One by one we're seeing it shrink. The stars are aligning for government oversight. The fact that is even on the table is an embarrassment and proof just how gross the business is today. JMO.
P.S. Horsemen in general need to be taught just how much it truly costs to operate a racetrack and fund its purse account. They really don't have a clue. I'm seeing that more with the comments I read about Freehold and how they think it can be saved.
I agree especially about the younger crowd.
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Bottom line is, alot of the older people who used to go to the racetrack have passed away. Young people have so many other things to do they have no interest in horse racing. Racetrack managements have done little or nothing to attract new people to the track, plus with the advent of ADW's and off-track wagering, there's no reason to come to the track when you can wager from the comforts of home.
tmbz1 tmbz1
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Freehold was getting 1.6 million from the state. They should make a million or two from the OTBS. If they had a clue they would've had sports betting from the jump. That should have added another few million. This would've allowed racing to continue & the purses be okay. Mismanagement at it's best & most likely planned. If not everyone in power to make decisions needs to be fired.
tmbz1
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24 more race cards there out East . My friend out here was tracking there betting handle per race and Saturday they did 294,000 it’s no wonder they are done . No interest in there product .
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Returning to a viable business, Freehold raceway is not where anyone with a dime to invest will put it. Harness racing has lost it's entertainment value a long time ago.
The Afternoon Delight was just that when, there was no other choice for your gambling dollar. With a multitude of choices made possible by technology, there is no need to
drive on down to place that resembles a City Bus Station, in the 'hood.
The state subsidy granted to Freehold did nothing to improve this situation.
In my opinion, you could rebuild the entire plant to the absolute latest in gaming trends, giveaways everyday, and still be in a negative cash flow from day one.
Show me one harness racing venue that produces a profit, solely from its racing product. Even during the greatest days of harness racing, betting handle was only a portion of the revenue streams. Parking, programs, food, alcohol and even souvenirs, jackets and shirts made good money. I had my "Afternoon Delight" jacket.
It is a shame what has happened but to blame one single entity is foolish. It is also inevitable for all.
Good by, Freehold Raceway. I have some special memories from this place.
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Returning to a viable business, Freehold raceway is not where anyone with a dime to invest will put it. Harness racing has lost it's entertainment value a long time ago.
The Afternoon Delight was just that when, there was no other choice for your gambling dollar. With a multitude of choices made possible by technology, there is no need to
drive on down to place that resembles a City Bus Station, in the 'hood.
The state subsidy granted to Freehold did nothing to improve this situation.
In my opinion, you could rebuild the entire plant to the absolute latest in gaming trends, giveaways everyday, and still be in a negative cash flow from day one.
Show me one harness racing venue that produces a profit, solely from its racing product. Even during the greatest days of harness racing, betting handle was only a portion of the revenue streams. Parking, programs, food, alcohol and even souvenirs, jackets and shirts made good money. I had my "Afternoon Delight" jacket.
It is a shame what has happened but to blame one single entity is foolish. It is also inevitable for all.
Good by, Freehold Raceway. I have some special memories from this place.
I have some great memories as well. Friday afternoon had the open trot Saturday afternoon Open Pacers then up to the M on Saturday night for a phenomenal card back in the late 70s/80's.