HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: wizardofoz on August 13, 2024, 08:10:41 PM
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The trainers are driving the owners out of the business. I used to see 4 and 5 divisions of sires stakes classes in New York. Now, there are only 1 or 2 races in the top divisions and the Excelsior as well. It is reaching a point similar to the post office. Since stamps went up to .73 cents last month, there has been a big drop-off of mail delivery according to my mailman. If the post office thinks they will get more revenue by constantly raising their prices, the saturation point will be reached by the public and they will do their business all online. The same applies to owning a racehorse. It looks like the industry has maxed out at this current level of monthly billing as there are definitely fewer owners with racehorses.
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When I owned horses at Pompano Park in the early 80's, trainers were charging $40 a day as well as $150-$250 a month to the farrier. With other misc. fees, it totaled to about $2000 a month. I haven't been in the "harness game" in over 40 years; I shutter to think what the monthy bills are now.
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The trainers are driving the owners out of the business. I used to see 4 and 5 divisions of sires stakes classes in New York. Now, there are only 1 or 2 races in the top divisions and the Excelsior as well. It is reaching a point similar to the post office. Since stamps went up to .73 cents last month, there has been a big drop-off of mail delivery according to my mailman. If the post office thinks they will get more revenue by constantly raising their prices, the saturation point will be reached by the public and they will do their business all online. The same applies to owning a racehorse. It looks like the industry has maxed out at this current level of monthly billing as there are definitely fewer owners with racehorses.
Look at the average age of horse ownership.
Does anyone have and educated guess?
My educated guess is mid 50’s if not older!
As owners die off, not many if any to replace them.
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The trainers are driving the owners out of the business. I used to see 4 and 5 divisions of sires stakes classes in New York. Now, there are only 1 or 2 races in the top divisions and the Excelsior as well. It is reaching a point similar to the post office. Since stamps went up to .73 cents last month, there has been a big drop-off of mail delivery according to my mailman. If the post office thinks they will get more revenue by constantly raising their prices, the saturation point will be reached by the public and they will do their business all online. The same applies to owning a racehorse. It looks like the industry has maxed out at this current level of monthly billing as there are definitely fewer owners with racehorses.
It's not the trainers bill that is driving people out of owning. It is the impossibility of beating Ake in trotters and Alexander in pacers not to mention Burke. Add in Bako/Haskell (correct me if i'm wrong) team and it will be worse next year. The odds are so stacked against you. There are a few trotters on the Grand Circuit too.
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When I owned horses at Pompano Park in the early 80's, trainers were charging $40 a day as well as $150-$250 a month to the farrier. With other misc. fees, it totaled to about $2000 a month. I haven't been in the "harness game" in over 40 years; I shutter to think what the monthy bills are now.
I guess I got a great deal in 2004 when I got into the business. It was 35-38/day. My trainer generally did not take outside owners, but my gf and I were very fortunate she did. It wasn’t just business. We had dinner together on a number of occasions as well as other social things that normal people do in society. I had a chance to learn the business from the bottom up and never once regretted it, regardless of the profit/loss statement.
Today you are looking at 60+/day. 3000/month + vet and shipping. Not so bad considering what it was 20 years ago.
Although my trainer is very busy with his stable, more often than not took a few minutes if his time on issues outside the business as well as stories of business past. I’ve also had a few opportunities to go on road trips with the horses while I was in town. Do many if any other trainers do this for their owners? I’ve also had the opportunity to play a rich man’s game on a small time budget. Again, do other trainers do this for their owners.
More importantly, you have an opportunity to make friends with others in the business. You also get a chance to meet other trainers, drivers and other people in the business.
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i will chip in here
some valid comments
its the small to medium owners being driven out
the large owners who basically use it as a tax write and a way to travel around prefer fewer divisions and even smaller fields as they purses are larger with fewer horses
but lets be honest the increased and additional costs on the monthly bill from trainers does not help either
as for the age of owners, mid 50's is about 10 years light, just look at the winners circle in many of the major stakes races
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i will chip in here
some valid comments
its the small to medium owners being driven out
the large owners who basically use it as a tax write and a way to travel around prefer fewer divisions and even smaller fields as they purses are larger with fewer horses
but lets be honest the increased and additional costs on the monthly bill from trainers does not help either
as for the age of owners, mid 50's is about 10 years light, just look at the winners circle in many of the major stakes races
Was trying to use a conservative figure so the ‘boo birds’ wouldn’t come out and start hammering this.
Let’s take it one step further, what is the average trainer’s age?
Is mid 50’s a correct assessment or older??
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bills are crazy with trainers,,
cant beat the top barns ,,impossible to break even fort small owner
still we endure and try call it crazy...
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bills are crazy with trainers,,
cant beat the top barns ,,impossible to break even fort small owner
still we endure and try call it crazy...
Can you give us a ballpark of your training bills? You have had multiple trainers over the years and anyone on horseplop would have to take a good guess as to who they are and their bills.
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Can you give us a ballpark of your training bills? You have had multiple trainers over the years and anyone on horseplop would have to take a good guess as to who they are and their bills.
What do you care about bills. According to Chuck and Janice, you don't pay your bills anyway.
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What do you care about bills. According to Chuck and Janice, you don't pay your bills anyway.
Evening LIL MIKEY,
Why do you continually have to spread so many "LIES" and 'BS' here!
I asked you before, how much is it!
I'm still waiting for the amount you claim what I owe!
Thank you for embarrassing yourself AGAIN on horseplop!
Keep up the good work!
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Evening LIL MIKEY,
Why do you continually have to spread so many "LIES" and 'BS' here!
I asked you before, how much is it!
I'm still waiting for the amount you claim what I owe!
Thank you for embarrassing yourself AGAIN on horseplop!
Keep up the good work!
They said you offered your orange Honda and size 6 bowling shoes but they said that wouldn't even pay for the blacksmith bill you owe.
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They said you offered your orange Honda and size 6 bowling shoes but they said that wouldn't even pay for the blacksmith bill you owe.
EVENING LIL MIKEY,
Still waiting for the proof of what you said here!
FYI, someone is dyslexic, it's a size 9!
Thank you for posting yet again and your continuing embasassment on horseplop!
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The trainers are driving the owners out of the business. I used to see 4 and 5 divisions of sires stakes classes in New York. Now, there are only 1 or 2 races in the top divisions and the Excelsior as well. It is reaching a point similar to the post office. Since stamps went up to .73 cents last month, there has been a big drop-off of mail delivery according to my mailman. If the post office thinks they will get more revenue by constantly raising their prices, the saturation point will be reached by the public and they will do their business all online. The same applies to owning a racehorse. It looks like the industry has maxed out at this current level of monthly billing as there are definitely fewer owners with racehorses.
They had 5 horses entered for last week's 2yo trotting filly NYSS at Saratoga racing for $148k. After a scratch it was a 4 horse field.
There are still competent trainers out there with reasonable rates at the smaller tracks. While you won't race for the big money like Yonkers, you also aren't paying $4-5k per month once you throw in all of those vet bills.
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Look at the average age of horse ownership.
Does anyone have and educated guess?
My educated guess is mid 50’s if not older!
As owners die off, not many if any to replace them.
Excellent point. The demographics are a major issue.
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They had 5 horses entered for last week's 2yo trotting filly NYSS at Saratoga racing for $148k. After a scratch it was a 4 horse field.
There are still competent trainers out there with reasonable rates at the smaller tracks. While you won't race for the big money like Yonkers, you also aren't paying $4-5k per month once you throw in all of those vet bills.
you have to hope and pray you don't have a lot of vet bills and a trainer that doesn't run to the vet for every little issue
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When my Grandfather was a small time owner and one of his horses finished 3rd 4th or 5th he would always say.. well at least that will cover the vet bills for this week. You get what you pay for. You have to keep them sound. I cannot even imagine how a small time owner can keep there head above water unless they get a real good one.
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It’s too bad these posts begin intelligently and then digress into ludicrousness.
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About 10 years ago Bernie Boren told me he was charging 85 a day.
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Do any of you currently own? Most trainers are not killing small owners. The reality is owning yearlings is a very high risk low reward game. 20 2yos alone were listed on Ongait yesterday.
To get a yearling you have to buy one. My group typically spends around 20-50K per yearling. there are 3 of us. That is for Regional sire stake type of horse we are hoping for. To spend more we think makes it impossible to get out and really can't afford the risk. Add about 15K or so to get to the races and stake. Now you are in for 50K. And if you make it you have to dig out. It is really hard. And if you do make it and are good you can have them get injured like I had one this week. That is why buying a claimer or made horse makes so much more sense. But sense isn't what we are in it for. We are in it for Sire Stake winners and perhaps if lucky something more. SO along the way I have won Sire Stake legs with about 6 out of 50 plus and have had 3 Sire Stake Champs , a state horse of the year and a couple of Grand Circuit wins. Also some second tier Stake wins. I have personally lost a lot of money 15-50K per year on my share alone for the last few years until this year where I stand to make a profit including horse flesh 75K and maybe more. Then you pray they come back at 3 or maybe lose a lot of what you made. One year I made over 175K on one horse alone at 3. The tax benefits are favorable.
All in all over the years since I got with honest trainers ( early on ripped off and taken my lumps) I am about even. Which is a miracle on yearlings. As a owner overall on all horses claimers and babies I have made a profit most years. You need good people and honest trainers you have a relationship with. I been with most of mine for over ten years. Good luck.
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What do you care about bills. According to Chuck and Janice, you don't pay your bills anyway.
Your post is out of line and toxic. The post you replied to was a reasonable and on-topic post. Your reply was trolling. Is this your online persona are you like this in real life? If you are you probably do not have any friends. Grow up!
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Your post is out of line and toxic. The post you replied to was a reasonable and on-topic post. Your reply was trolling. Is this your online persona are you like this in real life? If you are you probably do not have any friends. Grow up!
Mind your own business jerkoff
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Jenn....Per....ea ch 5k a month.
Plus vet.
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Do any of you currently own? Most trainers are not killing small owners. The reality is owning yearlings is a very high risk low reward game. 20 2yos alone were listed on Ongait yesterday.
To get a yearling you have to buy one. My group typically spends around 20-50K per yearling. there are 3 of us. That is for Regional sire stake type of horse we are hoping for. To spend more we think makes it impossible to get out and really can't afford the risk. Add about 15K or so to get to the races and stake. Now you are in for 50K. And if you make it you have to dig out. It is really hard. And if you do make it and are good you can have them get injured like I had one this week, That is why buying a claimer or made horse makes so much more sense. But sense isn't what we are in it for. We are in for Sire Stake winners. SO along the way I have won a legs with about 10 out of 50 and have 3 Sire Stake Champs , a state horse of the year and a couple of Grand Circuit wins. I have personally lost a lot of money 15-50K per year on my share alone for the last few years until this year where I stand to make a profit including horse flesh 75K and maybe more. Then you pray they come back at 3 or maybe lose a lot of what you made. One year I made over 175K on one horse alone at 3. The tax benefits are favorable.
All in all over the years since I got with honest trainers ( early on ripped off and taken my lumps) I am about even. Which is a miracle on yearlings. As a owner overall on all horses claimers and babies I have made a profit most years. You need good people and honest trainers you have a relationship with. I been with most of mine for over ten years. Good luck.
Sounds a like my experience in the horse business. Well over 45 years for me.
Not fun anymore. Buying 2,3 or 4 yearlings a year isn’t goin to get it done. The SS divisions in N Y are down to 2 and the large stables end up with 3 or 4 legitimate SS horses so 2 end up in the lower class (excelsior) so most races are going the same speed. The top stables lock in the top drivers of which just a few travel, so another factor is against the small owner as the local drivers are, for the most part, intimidated by the big boys who work together a lot.
I’ve had a partner for most of the years and have been lucky and broke even for the most part but now will stop fighting the odds and get out of the yearling business. Yes, its only 3 or 4, maybe 5 yearlings but when multiplied by many in the same boat you will see the breeders buying back more and more of their yearlings.
My advice to the smaller owner is 1. Never hire a trainer who is broke or struggling as they wont make good decisions for you. 2. Use a driver who is hungry and your horse is just another drive.
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When I had the four cheap claimers at Pompano Park in the 80's, I had 2 other partners. We had 2 $4000 claimers and 2 $6000 claimers. We loved the "game" but got grinded out. It was my fault. I thought i'd be a "big shot" and have a small stable. And while we had "action" every week, the bills became out of hand. So we got out of the biz. I realize now we should have only had 2 horses. A 6-8 claimer and a 8-10 claimer. Less monthly bills. Live and learn.
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bills are about 4k when not racing
6k when racing ,,plus vets
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bills are about 4k when not racing
6k when racing ,,plus vets
Thank you for your honesty!
Believe it or not it is important to some of us here who are serious about the sport unlike some nameless others here!!
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There are reasonable trainers for mid level condition horses & claimers. I don't see anyway to compete on the top level. The stuff they use means you are racing for a small piece...if lucky.
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Your post is out of line and toxic. The post you replied to was a reasonable and on-topic post. Your reply was trolling. Is this your online persona are you like this in real life? If you are you probably do not have any friends. Grow up!
Look at the individual posting!! It’s what happens when you don’t have a life outside of horseplop!
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Your post is out of line and toxic. The post you replied to was a reasonable and on-topic post. Your reply was trolling. Is this your online persona are you like this in real life? If you are you probably do not have any friends. Grow up!
Great point!
Only alienates people on horseplop.
Has no friends and no life! The posts speak for themselves!!
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Mind your own business jerkoff
You did not send your insult as a private message, you posted it on a public board. Look up "trolling".
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You did not send your insult as a private message, you posted it on a public board. Look up "trolling".
Coincidentally, I looked up the word douchebag and it read See Frankie T.
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Coincidentally, I looked up the word douchebag and it read See Frankie T.
Your posts reveal who you are for all to see. What is it like living with no friends?
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Your posts reveal who you are for all to see. What is it like living with no friends?
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Blow me 11.bz 11.bz 11.bz 11.bz 11.bz
hvc.1
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Owner demographics, I've been thinking about that....no youngsters in the game, LOL.
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Your right Grandstand. I was 26 and foolish when I jumped into the "Game". Over 40 years later i'm thinking about taking another shot.....
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Your right Grandstand. I was 26 and foolish when I jumped into the "Game". Over 40 years later i'm thinking about taking another shot.....
Remember, whomever you pick as a trainer, make sure they have at least 3 pages of drug suspensions. Any less and you will lose money.
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That's a very sad commentary Mike. I'm sure it's true. But nevertheless..... still sad.
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In case you haven't noticed, it's a sad WORLD out there. These trans freaks, the Presidential candidates.
People can't wipe their ass without their phone. Now that's SAD.
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That's a very sad commentary Mike. I'm sure it's true. But nevertheless..... still sad.
Look at the trainers standings at every race track. All the leading trainers are drug trainers. Sad but true. The motto of harness racing today is..Show me an honest trainer and I will show you a guy in a Ford Pinto.
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Your right Grandstand. I was 26 and foolish when I jumped into the "Game". Over 40 years later i'm thinking about taking another shot.....
Dougie,
I'll make you an interesting offer--
You have the connections on the t-breds, and I have the connections on the harness side.
I'll join you on the t-breds and you join me on the harness side.
Let me know
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Owner demographics, I've been thinking about that....no youngsters in the game, LOL.
Owner demographics?? Yes the average is around 50. How many in there 20-30s do you know that have 50-200k available to play with horses? Not many. Most jump in after they get there kids out of the house and have had a successful career. No different than any other hobby
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Look at the trainers standings at every race track. All the leading trainers are drug trainers. Sad but true. The motto of harness racing today is..Show me an honest trainer and I will show you a guy in a Ford Pinto.
Honest question Mike not trying to be shitty. Do you think Karl is on the juice? If so then how can he be remembered as the greatest ever?
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Honest question Mike not trying to be shitty. Do you think Karl is on the juice? If so then how can he be remembered as the greatest ever?
A very 'LEGITIMATE' question.
Look at his previous posts and judge for yourselves!
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please define "juice"
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please define "juice"
Hey brown jug love the screen name..I think we all know what that means.. but I would say anything that enhances the horses performance that is banned or would get them dq'd if caught after the race. Just like with fun time last month or in other words whatever that Burke horse Sippinonsearoc was on going 148.2 in the middle of August pacing out of his skin 2 days ago at Lexington where Yannick couldn't slow him down.I know the rules are stretched and I know there are ways to avoid detection.. but you get my drift. I like the Takter's not as much as Mohawk Freak LOL. But just asking an honest question. The only reason I bring it up is Mike said all the leading trainers are drug trainers and he LOVES Karl.
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Honest question Mike not trying to be shitty. Do you think Karl is on the juice? If so then how can he be remembered as the greatest ever?
All trainers use things to enhance performance. It's been going on forever. Some push the envelope further than others. I have some swamp land to sell you if you think those horses that you deemed great were completely clean. As drug use has evolved, testing has, as well but the cheaters are always 1 or 2 steps ahead. In the early 70's many were using caffeine. Sounds innocent but trust me, it worked wonders on a horse. Eventually, they started testing for it and that was the end of that. I also remember many were using Lasix and winning many races. Eventually, that was tested for and banned, only to return later as a sanctioned med. The point is, by time they develop a test for something, many are using something else. EPO is a whole different type of drug. You need to test the horse in most cases within 36 hours of admin to detect it which means out of competition testing is the only remedy. That is how they caught Funtime Bayama.
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A very 'LEGITIMATE' question.
Look at his previous posts and judge for yourselves!
The question was directed to me but of course in your autistic retarded way, you had to stick your nose in the middle, once again. As far a legitimate questions are concerned, the only legitimate question is whether you like small dicks or big dicks in your ass. I'm assuming big since you are a big asshole.
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I remember years ago they had a two week school for people interested in Harness Racing in all areas. There were classes for people who wanted to be trainers, drivers, owners, grooms, etc. It was part classroom study and parts "Hands-on". I think the school was run by Alfred "Bucky" Day. I wanted to avoid college and go to this school, but my dad thought that it might not lead me to a job right away. I've always wondered how many came out of these schools and became sucessful. And if they did, did they become part of the "juicers" everyone talks about now.
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The question was directed to me but of course in your autistic retarded way, you had to stick your nose in the middle, once again. As far a legitimate questions are concerned, the only legitimate question is whether you like small dicks or big dicks in your ass. I'm assuming big since you are a big asshole.
GOOD EVENING LIL MIKEY,
Here we go again!
And you wonder why nobody likes you here!
What can I tell you?
You keep treating this way and I'll keep reminding you how foolish you look here with each continued post!
Thanx for playing MIKEY!
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GOOD EVENING LIL MIKEY,
Here we go again!
And you wonder why nobody likes you here!
What can I tell you?
You keep treating this way and I'll keep reminding you how foolish you look here with each continued post!
Thanx for playing MIKEY!
I am fine as long as you don't like me. You're a creep.
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I am fine as long as you don't like me. You're a creep.
GOOD EVENING LIL MIKEY,
What's the matter?
Looks like you can only dish it out, but you can't take it!
Again, please took a look at the mirror at yourself about who a 'CREEP' is as well as a "LOSER" too!
Thanks for playing MIKEY!
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thanks jt and others
it is a fair question, we all know all good/great horses get help but who goes over the line and who just gets close to the line
and are some helpful but not harmful to the horses while others are harming horses and pushing beyond their normal limits
but i find it hard to see a 2 yr old in his first couple starts go in 148.2 under a death grip
realistically that would be a great mile for an aged grand circuit horse on most days
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bills are about 4k when not racing
6k when racing ,,plus vets
[/quote
Racing in Saratoga, I am paying less than half that much.
When I had a couple racing in Yonkers a few years ago, the bills ended up in the 6k range.
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Most of you dont get it that most owners such as myself started as gamblers and have no chance with computer gambling and a high rake and its that simple,,,,,,,,,, not only the trainers but the vets and drivers and most important management,,,,,,,,,, 3 dollar shots with no law judges and a boring product,,,,,,,,,,,, Every person out there liked this MP guy when he started posting as finally a honest sherrif was guiding us and truth is most people like playing the good lovable dad and then we find out later in life that it was mom all along that ran the ship well and in this industry everyone wants to sit back and pretend like Randy WAPLES THAT we are all having a good time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Until we get someone who does not need to be liked and gives a shit about the game we have no game and by the way i dont hate RANDY WAPLES BUT I do not like the character of a happy clown who has never looked out for the game and for sure he is part of a huge problem and from what i read from horsemen on this site i do not see a leader in this industry and 10 years from now or 20 it will be the children of these people leading the way......
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Waples, Blowe, Rozema, Rallis
has anyone said one single word about Moreau?
i am sure they are instructed not to bring that up
same for Anthony Beaton
they all pretend everything is good and rosey smelling--and promote a ridiculous pentafecta carryover which has over a 40% takeout on non mandatory nights
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Another great post PAP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, The game is in huge trouble and EX horsemen who made a huge living are nowhere to be found and yes most of these guys owner horses with guys who drove them on everything but CAT MANZI,, RON PIERCE,,,JOHN CAMPBELL,, STEVE CONDREN ,,,,TREVOR RITCHIE,,,,MIKE SAFTIC ,,RANDY WAPLES AND MANY OTHERS,,,,, do these guys not have any horsemen that are not doing well that they can buy HORSES WITH AND ALSO HELP A GAME THEY SAY THEY LOVE,,,,,,,,Or do these people know that its not a lovable game and stay clear,,,,,,Every driver i mentioned had horses when it was the right move for themself,,,,,,,,,,,,Hall of shamers not hall of famers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Gural and Gingras are the only good guys for the game as Gingras is a go every time and Gural has done some good but when reading posts on this site you would think they are the villiains........ ..
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very true pap
i remember a while ago i mentioned on here that one of the big trainers had been suspended for a few months and it was his first night racing
chad rozema said "welcome back ..." like the guy had been on vacation and not suspended for getting caught with performance enhancing drugs
some of the people at weg ( not just on air people) are not overly bright
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BROWN JUG,,,,,,,,I remember that moment BENOIT was the man and randy also commented on the situation,,,,,,,,, i remember when sprinter BEN JOHNSON WAS CAUGHT and the announcers never stopped talking about it,,,,, That is reality,,,,
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yes thank you any1 eft
it was in fact when ben b was coming back
amazingly his barn has been rather cold for a few years now
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mr brown jug ,,,,,He reminds me of a ROBIN WILLIAMS movie awakenings were once in a while benoit wake up but shortly falls back to sleep..........If i am playing poker and 2 guys are working to cheat me i will not still play but yet in harness racing the non cheats do nothing and stay spineless and that hurts all gamblers and honest horsemen but helps vets and cheaters,,,,,,,,
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I remember years ago they had a two week school for people interested in Harness Racing in all areas. There were classes for people who wanted to be trainers, drivers, owners, grooms, etc. It was part classroom study and parts "Hands-on". I think the school was run by Alfred "Bucky" Day. I wanted to avoid college and go to this school, but my dad thought that it might not lead me to a job right away. I've always wondered how many came out of these schools and became sucessful. And if they did, did they become part of the "juicers" everyone talks about now.
I don't know about a 2 week program, but I am very familiar with a program that Lou Miller (and his companion Joanne) ran at Roosevelt. Aside from acting as a quasi-rescue barn they also helped many people learn to train (and some went on to drive also) from the ground up. I donated a horse I had at that time who could both pace and trot around 2:04 (which was essentially worthless as an owner, but valuable for them to use to help people learn on). I became sufficiently interested so that I became a 'student" there also. I had no intention of becoming a groom/trainer or driver, but was an owner and what I learned there made me a much more successful owner and also added more pleasure by allowing me to jog some of my own horses. This was in the later 70's and early 80's. If I am not mistaken Nick Sodano attended there and the horse he had was the one I donated! I would guess many other people who attended there entered the industry in a variety of functions.
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I attended the BOCES program 1976-1977. They had a barn at Roosevelt when the meet was at Yonkers. The other times, we were at the old Ambros Clark estate, nowa part of Old Westbury University. Quite a facility. I bet the main barn, made if stone and hardwoods, would be worth millions. They also had a Thoroughbred program. Students would do a semester in each, you first year. Final year you did the program of your choice. I chose harness and my horse i took care of was Earl Lad.
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The demographics of the sport and industry are changing. From way back in the sport's heyday with YR and RR. I grew up and made my bones on NY racing. Before, during, and after me, so did guys like Bob Marks, Morty Finder, Bob Boni, Geoff Stein, Dave Reid, and a whole slew of handicappers, track characters, bettors, and owners. When the Meadowlands opened, many moved there. Big owners of yesteryear, and still some today, came from that generation. Ted Gewertz, Marty Granoff, Arlene Traub, Jimmy Plate, etc., and many backbone of the industry owners, people who owned a horse or two. Later on was who? The Brooks Brothers? LOL. Today Howard Taylor? If it weren't for his dad, Howard wouldn't know the inside of a racetrack. LOL.
Today, who do you have? The big owners of today? What about the real backbone of the industry and sport? There are none. Far fewer. The sport and the business have changed like everything else. Tracks aren't built and won't get 50k to 100k of people, except for the odd big day, and mostly t-breds. But, this sport and business will change, and survive. It won't go like dog racing did. There will be fewer tracks, but the sport and business will still be there.