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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Here they come on July 22, 2024, 11:36:07 PM
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Seen several, what you guys think?
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Nancy T has nice colt but Yannick will ruin him shortly.
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Swingtown
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Swingtown
Looks very good so far. I would have to agree.👍
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Burke has had a super year so far with his 2 year olds especially in Pa and Ohio. He has 10 in 53 or better most of which are colts. That accounts for about 20% of all the horses that have taken records that fast. Swingtown seems to be his best but I also like Railroad Station a lot. He took care of a bunch of stakes horses pretty easily the other day.
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I agree swingtown looks amazing
52.1 is a huge mile at Northfield since the track was redone and pylons moved out where they belong
2 seconds faster than the open pace......he's scary good
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While Papi Grad has been exciting there are two other fillies who are doing outstanding . Chantilly in Canada has paced 50.4 and is 2 for 2 and Toscanos Ascendence has been impressive also.
On the colt side Swingtown has been eye opening. Burke us doing great with pacers , trotters not so much. Remeber he starts with over a 100 of them.
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Burke has had a super year so far with his 2 year olds especially in Pa and Ohio. He has 10 in 53 or better most of which are colts. That accounts for about 20% of all the horses that have taken records that fast. Swingtown seems to be his best but I also like Railroad Station a lot. He took care of a bunch of stakes horses pretty easily the other day.
Railroad Station has been good and did it easy last time out. Good call! tmbz1
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Railroad Station beat a field of Pa sire stake colts in 51.1 -- a lot tougher than an Ohio SS field.
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I think it was the ease in 1:52 that Swingtown did it. Both look super impressive and will square off at some point.
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Burke has had a super year so far with his 2 year olds especially in Pa and Ohio. He has 10 in 53 or better most of which are colts. That accounts for about 20% of all the horses that have taken records that fast. Swingtown seems to be his best but I also like Railroad Station a lot. He took care of a bunch of stakes horses pretty easily the other day.
Burkes sweet lou filly thats qualifying this morning at the meadows is scary fast but has been making breaks.
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Burke and Carter are the only two in Ohio who's 2-year-olds start out amazing and then get better as the year goes on. Nobody else not even Virgil or Noble has two-year-olds that show up every week and basically never miss and never get tired and show up the next week even stronger..
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Swingtown is the best 2yo colt pacer in the country thus far . 152.1 at Northfield is a ridiculous mile and he did it like nothing
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While I agree that Papi Grad and Swingtown have been the most impressive filly and colt so far, it's still pretty early and I fully expect others to emerge to challenge and possibly end up being better.
Swingtown is the best 2yo colt pacer in the country thus far . 152.1 at Northfield is a ridiculous mile and he did it like nothing
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Almost always the case, but can only go with what we've seen thus far.
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lets wait and see what rolls out at the red mile in the next few weeks
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Nothing of significance happening at the Red Mile this meet. Very doubtful if many top pacing colts will suddenly pop up out there with only KYSS money right now. The Fall meet will be different as trainers have their best ready to peak for the end of season money. I would expect more Canadian horses to join the front ranks in the next month or so than anywhere else, first real test is the Metro.
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have to disagree thorn
top trainers with dual eligible usually wait for lexington to really get horses geared up
lets see what alagna, takter etc roll out, with the final of the sires A going for $400k they will be showing up
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I'll disagree with you Jug. Last year the 400000 2 yr old KYSS final only got 6 entries. They couldn't even get a full field. The two best horses were Better Is Nice and Ivy Park and they had already been racing in their regular SS. So I'll stand by what I said before.
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Very nice trotting gelding at the Meadows, back to back stakes records. Wapiti Blue Chip
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could be thorn
however i suspect there will be more in kentucky than last year
remember there were many more dual eligible sold in 2023 than in 2022
i am just saying i dont think we have seen the full roster yet
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While I agree that Papi Grad and Swingtown have been the most impressive filly and colt so far, it's still pretty early and I fully expect others to emerge to challenge and possibly end up being better.
Today Beach Rules NW1 filly pace at Chester/Philly 50.4 by 9. Carter Dalgety driving, looks like he weighs 75 pounds!
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could be thorn
however i suspect there will be more in kentucky than last year
remember there were many more dual eligible sold in 2023 than in 2022
i am just saying i dont think we have seen the full roster yet
Over time, there is going to be a strong tendency for the best mares to be in Kentucky and the best stallions to be in other states. That will give the babies two stakes programs to race in. The downside is it will reduce the horses that race in the grande circuit.
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Burke had another potential star today. Even at fake time Lexington ,Sippinonsearock 2 yo colt world record 48.2. How he is able to do this over and over i wish I knew so I could do it myself.
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tmbz1 tmbz1
Over time, there is going to be a strong tendency for the best mares to be in Kentucky and the best stallions to be in other states. That will give the babies two stakes programs to race in. The downside is it will reduce the horses that race in the grande circuit.
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As of now I would go with Swingtown but alot can change between now and October.
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Best has nothing to do with time.....48 and 2.....new world record for a 2yo.....fifth lifetime start (race).....in a what? $110k KYSS Champ. Series? I ain't no trainer, ain't no driver, but as an owner, my question is.....WTF are we doing here?!?!?! If I knew my horse had to go that fast, and I mean really had to, I think I would be thinking long and hard about whether or not this was the right race, and if I had to go this fast, maybe thinking I should be doing it for big money. And, if I did have to go that fast and I thought my horse was really something special.....I might pass on the race knowing there are bigger paydays out there. If there aren't, maybe I pick different spots and think BC. Look at the stakes schedule for 2yo's. The Battle of Waterloo is $200k (Cn.), the Nassagaweya is what, $200k (Cn.), the Champlain roughly the same, the Metro is $1mm, and the BC is what, $750k....and my point is, I don't think every one of them is going to go in 48!
Now I know someone is going to say the KYSS final race is scheduled to be what, $400k, but you already had to go in 48 and 1 and that's just one leg. JMHO, you put up your money and you get to manage your horse anyway you want. To me, this is questionable management at best.
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watch out for another burke colt called louprint
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The four fastest 2 year olds of all time have been driven by Gingras.
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Best has nothing to do with time.....48 and 2.....new world record for a 2yo.....fifth lifetime start (race).....in a what? $110k KYSS Champ. Series? I ain't no trainer, ain't no driver, but as an owner, my question is.....WTF are we doing here?!?!?! If I knew my horse had to go that fast, and I mean really had to, I think I would be thinking long and hard about whether or not this was the right race, and if I had to go this fast, maybe thinking I should be doing it for big money. And, if I did have to go that fast and I thought my horse was really something special.....I might pass on the race knowing there are bigger paydays out there. If there aren't, maybe I pick different spots and think BC. Look at the stakes schedule for 2yo's. The Battle of Waterloo is $200k (Cn.), the Nassagaweya is what, $200k (Cn.), the Champlain roughly the same, the Metro is $1mm, and the BC is what, $750k....and my point is, I don't think every one of them is going to go in 48!
Now I know someone is going to say the KYSS final race is scheduled to be what, $400k, but you already had to go in 48 and 1 and that's just one leg. JMHO, you put up your money and you get to manage your horse anyway you want. To me, this is questionable management at best.
Watch the replay. He didn't "have" to go that fast. I was there. He won under wraps -- never touched him. Had a tight hold on him going to the half and three quarters. This colt has a massive stride.
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Watch the replay. He didn't "have" to go that fast. I was there. He won under wraps -- never touched him. Had a tight hold on him going to the half and three quarters. This colt has a massive stride.
Look at the picture of him on the USTA website. Gingras is nearly choking him in the stretch.
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Look at the picture of him on the USTA website. Gingras is nearly choking him in the stretch.
Exactly.
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Rick wink might be even better..
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Watch the replay. He didn't "have" to go that fast. I was there. He won under wraps -- never touched him. Had a tight hold on him going to the half and three quarters. This colt has a massive stride.
I saw it. I know, I get that. I am the first one to not look at the clock and say don't look at what he did, look at what he did and how he did it. I get all that. I don't care if he did it easy, was under wraps, still had more left....48 and 2 is still 48 and 2 no matter how you slice it, soup up the track, etc.....and it's a 2yo! That's my point. Put it in the context of what else I said, other races, bigger paydays, etc., and I wonder if there were other routes this colt could travel.
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I am sure it's just coincidence.....a nd yes, Burke cranks up his 2yo's pretty well.....previous world record.....48 and 3 was shared by three horses.....a filly, Warrawee Ubeaut, then Elver Hanover and Caviart Camden.....all at the Red Mile.....and all driven by YG. Elver I saw very early before his first start and I loved him. He won 9 in a row and was undefeated as a 2yo.
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I saw it. I know, I get that. I am the first one to not look at the clock and say don't look at what he did, look at what he did and how he did it. I get all that. I don't care if he did it easy, was under wraps, still had more left....48 and 2 is still 48 and 2 no matter how you slice it, soup up the track, etc.....and it's a 2yo! That's my point. Put it in the context of what else I said, other races, bigger paydays, etc., and I wonder if there were other routes this colt could travel.
I think he's already secured a pretty big pay day in the breeding shed without leaving Kentucky. I have no idea what their plans are, but long distance travelling is always a risk, especially with a two-year-old, and possibly a trainer change in Canada. In addition to the KYSS final at the Red Mile, there's the Bluegrass and International Stallion in Sept. and Oct., and possibly a lower record time -- then onto the BC at the Meadowlands.
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You are forgetting the Ohio Sires Stakes. He's already won one leg and probably needs another to get into their final too.
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You are forgetting the Ohio Sires Stakes. He's already won one leg and probably needs another to get into their final too.
Yes, excellent point. He's already won a 50K Ohio SS. Duel eligible, he'll probably split his time between the two programs.
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I think he's already secured a pretty big pay day in the breeding shed without leaving Kentucky. I have no idea what their plans are, but long distance travelling is always a risk, especially with a two-year-old, and possibly a trainer change in Canada. In addition to the KYSS final at the Red Mile, there's the Bluegrass and International Stallion in Sept. and Oct., and possibly a lower record time -- then onto the BC at the Meadowlands.
Based upon the current landscape of the breeding industry, if he breaks down tomorrow, he's worth squat in the breeding shed. Maybe my mindset is different for 2yo's, but I am just saying, if I had to go that fast, regardless of how my horse does it, I'd want him to go that fast once, and for the biggest payday. LOL. I am not saying it's simply poor management and that alone. Burke had no control how fast that track would be or how fast they would go. However, I think he towed a few along for the ride and if he slowed the pace, I think he may have still won easy, but would have gone slower. Eh, at this point it's moot. All speculation and BS, LOL.
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Plus, for me, with a top 2yo, there's more money out there at 3 and a far bigger and better stud deal. No guarantees any horse comes back at 3 regardless of what you do with him at 2.....but going 48 numerous times certainly doesn't increase your chances of coming back.
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Based upon the current landscape of the breeding industry, if he breaks down tomorrow, he's worth squat in the breeding shed. Maybe my mindset is different for 2yo's, but I am just saying, if I had to go that fast, regardless of how my horse does it, I'd want him to go that fast once, and for the biggest payday. LOL. I am not saying it's simply poor management and that alone. Burke had no control how fast that track would be or how fast they would go. However, I think he towed a few along for the ride and if he slowed the pace, I think he may have still won easy, but would have gone slower. Eh, at this point it's moot. All speculation and BS, LOL.
Not sure what landscape you're referring to and although a breakdown would obviously diminish his value at stud, I hardly think he'd be worth squat being undefeated and with a WR. For that matter horses rarely break down when they're well in hand at the wire. Most owners don't spend 100K plus for a yearling hoping for a fast four year old. The money is spent for a successful 2 and hopefully 3 year old career. Sales are full of two year olds that "need more time" and their owners don't want to wait. Whether one likes it or not early speed rules and everyone follows it, often determining a first year sire's success or failure. So, like you said and it's been proven, there's no guarantee any horse comes back at 3. Therefore, I don't understand why someone would tarnish a 2 year old WR, especially when it was accomplished so easily. That sir is the goal for most in the business.