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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: brownmoose13 on December 17, 2023, 11:13:04 PM

Title: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: brownmoose13 on December 17, 2023, 11:13:04 PM
Which is the worst purchase made by Amac:
1. The Greatest Ending
2. Atlas Hanover
3. Texsong Soprano
4. Deliciousstone DK

Amac sure can pick out those racehorses. How does he keep getting money from the sheep investors. These cost over $350K and are lucky to get checks. He finally dumped Atlas Hanover and probably lost over $100K
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: wiseowl on December 18, 2023, 07:13:43 AM
Lots of big trainer buy many yearling you only here about the good ones not the other 25.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: brownmoose13 on December 18, 2023, 09:19:38 AM
these are not yearlings but horses that were currently racing that he bought at Ongait
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Locked in with pace on December 18, 2023, 09:46:41 AM
Buyer beware
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Par Four on December 18, 2023, 11:15:43 AM
I don’t know why he thinks that he can somehow improve on them especially Greatest Ending. The whole industry was aware of this horses issues.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: brownmoose13 on December 18, 2023, 11:19:20 AM
I don’t know why he thinks that he can somehow improve on them especially Greatest Ending. The whole industry was aware of this horses issues.

Thats easy to answer...Amac thinks he is the smartest and sharpest person in harness racing and if you don't believe that just ask him
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Harness racer on December 18, 2023, 11:46:38 AM
Everyone should only buy Luther racing horses.  Ceba Horsey could improve one off that guy!  ngc3
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Brown jug on December 18, 2023, 12:01:36 PM
well he did get to drive in the jug with atlas ...LOL!!
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Mailbox Money on December 18, 2023, 12:11:59 PM
Now he's openly soliciting Xmas tips for his employees! What percentage of that jar will disappear prior to distribution? SMFH!
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: dinkadoo on December 18, 2023, 12:30:10 PM
I don’t know why he thinks that he can somehow improve on them especially Greatest Ending. The whole industry was aware of this horses issues.
not sure how long he has had him or how much he paid for him, but he was a good 3rd two starts back in the Open beaten by the two favorites ( Burke )

Last start -- oh my --  Huge horse, big stride came to a walk at the 3/4 pole.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Harness racer on December 18, 2023, 01:02:54 PM
Parked to a 26.4 1st quarter on a nasty day, driven by a lesser tier driver.  May deserve a pass on last out.  You are correct 2 back was a decent effort with same driver. 
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: brownmoose13 on December 18, 2023, 01:06:09 PM
Amac paid...get ready..$147K at Ongait
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: dinkadoo on December 18, 2023, 01:25:07 PM
Parked to a 26.4 1st quarter on a nasty day, driven by a lesser tier driver.  May deserve a pass on last out.  You are correct 2 back was a decent effort with same driver.
size of horse and track size isn't a definite -- but to my thinking he would be better on a bigger track with the stride he has.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Brown jug on December 18, 2023, 02:04:57 PM
pay all that money for a horse with issues and then race on a 1/2 mile track ??
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: PurpleSheetPicks on December 18, 2023, 02:27:37 PM
So many from the past I can't recall. Right at the top are the ones he overpays every year to race in his cup and saucer race.
And looks like you can add Kenobi to the list shortly
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: PineHurstPacer on December 18, 2023, 03:32:33 PM
So all race horses don't make money?

done ok with Think of Galaxies (off Burke no less)
sold Crantini for 85K, bought back 8 weeks later for 40K
bought All Gas No Brakes of Luther for 18K, has made over 50K in 10 starts


I do agree buying Greatest Ending knowing he ties up easily is a head scratcher

I believe Anthony has horse racing in his best interest, after all he encourages other trainers to do fractional ownership to get new owners in the game.  Most guys would be trying to blackball them if they could.

And something else many of you don't know and he doesn't go around talking about it....Brave World was 2 steps away from the killers, Anthony bought the horse back and had it shipped on his dime, patched him up to find he a good retirement home.

Lot of know it alls in here who don't know shit
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Lance on December 18, 2023, 03:43:40 PM
Top outfit. Everyone that invested makes money.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Brown jug on December 18, 2023, 03:44:52 PM
there have been some good ones in addition to these
like anything, you never get them all right or all wrong and a lot fall in the middle
key is not keeping the bad ones too long
also  being careful on the ongait/preferred sites buying horses sight unseen

Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: rainman2 on December 18, 2023, 04:21:16 PM
Lots of big trainer buy many yearling you only here about the good ones not the other 25.

The number could be higher in certain barns.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: brownmoose13 on December 18, 2023, 04:48:53 PM
I may not know shit but I do know facts such as:

Think of Galaxies. That is one that has done ok
Crantini was not bought back for $40K but traded for 2 other horses
All Gas No Brakes has not made $50...more like $37K and discounting for the Canadian $$ its more like $30K
Brave World is still owned by people in New York

Last, Anthony has the best interest of Anthony first and second.
I also notice that you did not comment on the other horses I brought up of which there are many more
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: PineHurstPacer on December 18, 2023, 04:57:32 PM

Brave World is still owned by people in New York

You just proved your true intelligence

did you want him to pay the transfer fee too, when he isn't sound enough to race again

Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: brownmoose13 on December 18, 2023, 05:03:19 PM
You just proved your true intelligence

did you want him to pay the transfer fee too, when he isn't sound enough to race again

What..Amac could not afford the $40.oh yeah I forgot he is such a generous guy.. Again you still do not comment on the other points you tried to make which were not true
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Pockets on December 18, 2023, 05:08:39 PM
I would love to see how much .was spent on yearling and race horses and how did they bring in .He said he had a great year
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: rainman2 on December 18, 2023, 05:12:37 PM
You just proved your true intelligence

did you want him to pay the transfer fee too, when he isn't sound enough to race again

Who actually owns the horse for real?
Who actually owns the horse according to USTA?
Who is paying the bills now on the horse (food, stable rent, etc.)??
If something happens who is legally responsible??
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: PineHurstPacer on December 18, 2023, 05:39:52 PM
What..Amac could not afford the $40.oh yeah I forgot he is such a generous guy.. Again you still do not comment on the other points you tried to make which were not true

Happy Holidays

You can carry on if you wish
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Par Four on December 18, 2023, 06:01:20 PM
Who actually owns the horse for real?
Who actually owns the horse according to USTA?
Who is paying the bills now on the horse (food, stable rent, etc.)??
If something happens who is legally responsible??

Also how are any purse monies gained disbursed. Are they paid monthly or put on account.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Swandre on December 18, 2023, 07:25:07 PM
So many from the past I can't recall. Right at the top are the ones he overpays every year to race in his cup and saucer race.
And looks like you can add Kenobi to the list shortly

Sintra
Brave World
Patrikthepiranah
Lincoln James


3 decent buys out of those 4
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Swandre on December 18, 2023, 07:26:03 PM
Which is the worst purchase made by Amac:
1. The Greatest Ending
2. Atlas Hanover
3. Texsong Soprano
4. Deliciousstone DK

Amac sure can pick out those racehorses. How does he keep getting money from the sheep investors. These cost over $350K and are lucky to get checks. He finally dumped Atlas Hanover and probably lost over $100K

definitely did not lose $100k on Atlas Hanover
Texsong Soprano has raced once. relax.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Brown jug on December 18, 2023, 07:54:33 PM
looks like moni is a very nice horse
had some good 2 yr olds this year as well
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: titans1127 on December 18, 2023, 07:58:43 PM
The excessive nickel and dimeing for everything is what put me off from going with AMac.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Stan durbread on December 18, 2023, 08:05:53 PM
The excessive nickel and dimeing for everything is what put me off from going with AMac.
I thought he always advertised $2000 a month all in
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: titans1127 on December 18, 2023, 08:34:54 PM
I thought he always advertised $2000 a month all in
Website shows $2575(assuming thats canadian dollars) plus the cost of vet work, shipping and stake payments.  Plus you're always stuck having him drive instead of using top catch drivers which is what he should be using when the big money is on the line.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: brownmoose13 on December 18, 2023, 10:11:16 PM
1. You will never get Amac to tell the purse money won and what he billed the investors. Why would he want to admit that the stable lost maybe $2M or more. When Amac said he had a great year he is telling the truth..HE and only HE had a great year or should I say his bank account.
2. Brave World is owned by 2 guys in New York and if something happens they are legally responsible or at minimum they have a legal fight on their hands over responsibility.
3. Notice when you present facts about Amac the lackeys (PHP)  put their tails between their legs and run.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: brownmoose13 on December 18, 2023, 10:15:53 PM
Website shows $2575(assuming thats canadian dollars) plus the cost of vet work, shipping and stake payments.  Plus you're always stuck having him drive instead of using top catch drivers which is what he should be using when the big money is on the line.

According to Amac, in his own words. a horse needs to make between $35K-$40K to break even and thats US dollars
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: COUNSELOR on December 19, 2023, 01:49:03 AM
I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT OR THE STRUCTRE OF THE STABLE BUT MY CONCERN WOULD BE IS THIS A "SECURITY?"  THE DEFINITION OF A SECURITY BY THE SEC SURE CAN BE INTERPRETED IN A FASHION THAT THIS INVESTMENT IS A SECURITY.

THESE FOLKS:
1.  ADVERTISE THEIR UNITS ON A PUBLIC FORUM
2.  PROVIDE AN EXCHANGE TO SELL THE UNIT
3.  THE INVESTORS HAVE ZERO INPUT INTO THE MANAGEMENT OF THE HORSE
4.  IS THIS INVESTMENT REGISTERED WITH THE SEC?
5.  ARE THESE QUALIFIED INVESTORS WITH VARIOUS REQUIRED FINANCIAL DATA?

I AGAIN HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS PARTNERSHIP----OR ORGANIZATION ----POSSIBLY THESE FOLKS HIRED GOOD COUNSEL TO PROVIDE A LEGAL OPINION ON THEIR BUSINESS MODEL AND STRUCTURE.    IF NOT----THESE ISSUES COULD PROVE THIS IS A SECURITY AND IF SO????  HUGE PROBLEM   ANOTHER TRUEE BLACK EYE TO AN INDUSTRY!!!!!

HOPEFULLY, THESE FOLKS HAVE A GREAT ATTORNEY AND THE STRUCTURE IS LEGAL.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: PurpleSheetPicks on December 19, 2023, 02:07:13 PM
Sintra
Brave World
Patrikthepiranah
Lincoln James


3 decent buys out of those 4

lol
low bar of decent
how much was the sintra purchase price
lincoln james is a 7500 claimer
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: PurpleSheetPicks on December 19, 2023, 02:08:20 PM
I thought he always advertised $2000 a month all in
4k a month easy
my horse with him had 2 firsts and a second one month and i broke even
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Mailbox Money on December 19, 2023, 02:14:58 PM
The excessive nickel and dimeing for everything is what put me off from going with AMac.
tmbz1 tmbz1
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: HarnessFan1981 on December 19, 2023, 02:24:34 PM
lol
low bar of decent
how much was the sintra purchase price
lincoln james is a 7500 claimer

Sintra was bought for 76K US in July 2022 i do believe
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: dinkadoo on December 19, 2023, 02:34:44 PM
1. You will never get Amac to tell the purse money won and what he billed the investors. Why would he want to admit that the stable lost maybe $2M or more. When Amac said he had a great year he is telling the truth..HE and only HE had a great year or should I say his bank account.
2. Brave World is owned by 2 guys in New York and if something happens they are legally responsible or at minimum they have a legal fight on their hands over responsibility.
3. Notice when you present facts about Amac the lackeys (PHP)  put their tails between their legs and run.
that's nothing compared to how much the big stables buying super priced that turned out to either not race or be duds.
want to go broke by a horse or a boat.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: rainman2 on December 19, 2023, 04:20:15 PM
According to Amac, in his own words. a horse needs to make between $35K-$40K to break even and thats US dollars

At $ 60/day, $ 45000 is a more realistic figure with no stakes payments and shipping.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: rainman2 on December 19, 2023, 04:21:22 PM
I thought he always advertised $2000 a month all in

A more realistic figure is $ 3000/month + shipping and vet.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: titans1127 on December 19, 2023, 04:34:14 PM
I wonder how many horses had stake payments made yet spent all summer in NW1's on the Ontario B circuit.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Swandre on December 19, 2023, 05:45:01 PM
lol
low bar of decent
how much was the sintra purchase price
lincoln james is a 7500 claimer

and people couldn’t wait to buy a share and own a piece of a gold cup horse.
especially Sintra. who won it.
supply and demand bud.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: brownmoose13 on December 19, 2023, 05:59:05 PM
The other extra people are missing is shoeing. I agree big stables lose big money with people that buy 25%, 50%, or all of a horse not suckering people into buying a little love it alot but as PT Barnum said there is a sucker born every minute.
Even if a bill is $4K or $5K per month which includes everything the stable can think of to charge clients Amac knows that at 1% who is going to complain about $40.00 or $50.00 and if they do too bad. Keep in mind that according to his website owners  are not allowed to talk among themselves. He cites privacy issues  or in plain English Amac does not want these little people ganging up on him as a group. One on one he can swat them away like a fly but he cannot handle a swarm of bees
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: horses first on December 19, 2023, 10:02:39 PM
I thought he always advertised $2000 a month all in

That might be Canadian dollars but in US dollars a couple years ago it was 75 a day. No vet charges and believe the charge for video pre month charge that doesn't go away if the horse is kept at 3, 4, or 5. Meaning those many videos you see for 2 yr old doesn't go away for zero videos of a 4 yr old who races all the time. When the horses go to Tim Twaddle who probably charges 45 a day at best your still charged the Stable rate.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: horses first on December 19, 2023, 10:17:21 PM
I would love to see how much .was spent on yearling and race horses and how did they bring in .He said he had a great year

This is just one sale Lexington since they post information. Remember they spend and buy a lot of horses at the Ohio Jug sale. Buy a lot at Harrisburg. Spend a lot in ONT. 
Lexington 2021 535k. Lexington 2022 962k. 2023 Lex 1.09M.
I will say the more they spend they have gotten better horses. They did sell a 100k TL filly couple years back for 600k. U can bet Amac had shares in that one. When they where spending less it was cheap junk to pad the training bills.
Amac taking R&R in Costa Rica life is probably good? At least beats his lone shot at public office in Ont.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: PurpleSheetPicks on December 19, 2023, 11:11:42 PM
and people couldn’t wait to buy a share and own a piece of a gold cup horse.
especially Sintra. who won it.
supply and demand bud.
People lined up madoff to, that's not a sign of success
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: COUNSELOR on December 20, 2023, 01:22:45 AM
ANOTHER REASON WHY THIS COULD BE COSIDERED A SECURITY.

IF THIS WAS INVESTIGATED BY THE SEC----THIS ENTIRE MODEL COULD POSSIBLY BE DEEMED A SECURITY WHICH COULD CLOSE THE ENTITY DOWN.   

THE MODEL IS BRILLIANT BUT FLAWED.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: coryd03 on December 20, 2023, 01:26:40 AM
Every stable makes good and bad buys. They aren't all profitable choices and in many instances , they're losers.  I see people often ragging on Anthony and the stable.ca.  honestly that makes you look unintelligent. Regardless of your take on profitability, the stable is one of the last positives in our industry. Anthony does a great job promoting his barn and racing in general and has single handedly gotten more people involved in this business than probably every trainer across the country. His business model is highly innovative and has even lead to other trainers trying to spin off this type of ownership.  He's as sharp as they get, especially in a business riddled with nit wits. Definitely someone worth following to learn a thing or too about running a successful operation.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: brownmoose13 on December 20, 2023, 09:14:18 AM
Please define successful operation
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Harness racer on December 20, 2023, 10:38:23 AM
He runs a "business" and his objective is to make money.  And I'm sure he is making a ton.  Sorry I didn't come up with this idea first!  Like him or not, it was a good idea for the ones at the top of the pyramid!  tmbz1
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: dinkadoo on December 20, 2023, 11:50:54 AM
He runs a "business" and his objective is to make money.  And I'm sure he is making a ton.  Sorry I didn't come up with this idea first!  Like him or not, it was a good idea for the ones at the top of the pyramid!  tmbz1
this is the wave of the future -- not just for these microstables, but look at any winners circle at Meadowlands... 3-4-5-6 partners....

I've been involved in mico share ownership in thoroughbreds.... Can't say I've made a lot of money -- was not expecting to - I have two shares in Mage, Derby winner, that has done very well and covered costs. Couple of graded stakes winners, another that has made some money that has cleared $480k in earnings. Have the walls in my office with win pictures from all over and been able to be in the winners cirlce.

Point is -- we complain and complain that owners are shrinking. That there are a handful of trainers with a handful of owners that control everything.    Along comes A-Mac with a very interesting business model.  He has brought in probably hundreds of new owners into the business that are in a position to buy 1% and afford it...... And yes he probably is making a bunch..... So now we complain and complain.....
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: rainman2 on December 20, 2023, 12:14:18 PM
this is the wave of the future -- not just for these microstables, but look at any winners circle at Meadowlands... 3-4-5-6 partners....

I've been involved in mico share ownership in thoroughbreds.... Can't say I've made a lot of money -- was not expecting to - I have two shares in Mage, Derby winner, that has done very well and covered costs. Couple of graded stakes winners, another that has made some money that has cleared $480k in earnings. Have the walls in my office with win pictures from all over and been able to be in the winners cirlce.

Point is -- we complain and complain that owners are shrinking. That there are a handful of trainers with a handful of owners that control everything.    Along comes A-Mac with a very interesting business model.  He has brought in probably hundreds of new owners into the business that are in a position to buy 1% and afford it...... And yes he probably is making a bunch..... So now we complain and complain.....

Many of us understand what you are saying. Many of these 1% people probably can afford more than 1%. If this $$$ is available, can’t they buy bigger percentages and/or their own horses, and/or form their own partnerships/partnership groups?  This way you get more $$$$ invested and more people involved and maybe a few more $$$ at the betting windows too!!
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: brownmoose13 on December 20, 2023, 12:16:05 PM
I have been told by people in the Stable.Ca that in the last 3 years only 9 people have gone on to purchase at least 10% of a horse with Amac or with someone else. I do not think anyone buying a 1%, 2%, or 3% share of a horse is "getting in the business". If it does then I am in the automotive, healthcare, oil, and computer business among others with my stocks but not really
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: horses first on December 20, 2023, 12:34:15 PM
I have been told by people in the Stable.Ca that in the last 3 years only 9 people have gone on to purchase at least 10% of a horse with Amac or with someone else. I do not think anyone buying a 1%, 2%, or 3% share of a horse is "getting in the business". If it does then I am in the automotive, healthcare, oil, and computer business among others with my stocks but not really

I think that is why he can make it sellable with so many as 1-5% ownership especially when they went to buckets with 5 or 6 horses inside. Sold as entertainment and some access into horse racing. Where as the early days of buying babies, cheap babies the money and ROI was unacceptable, and usually never mentioned. Now he doesn't need to show as much to investors maybe a few bigger ones but the 1 percent isn't leaving.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Brown jug on December 20, 2023, 01:48:24 PM
umm, i think you all went through all of this a year or so ago
rinse and repeat
 its a business, if people dont like it than they will not participate
its like any business model, your customers/consumers will tell you if they like what you are doing by showing up or not

Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Pockets on December 20, 2023, 03:11:08 PM
He has a lot of happy owners .that's all that counts
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: brownmoose13 on December 20, 2023, 04:44:30 PM
He has a lot of happy owners .that's all that counts

Not nearly as happy as Amac ...." If the clients were not meant to be fleeced they would not be sheep"
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: seriously on December 20, 2023, 04:55:50 PM
We do know this is primarily charity for a few, and a pyramid game for others, right?   

Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: rainman2 on December 20, 2023, 05:25:45 PM
We do know this is primarily charity for a few, and a pyramid game for others, right?

And some pyramids are bigger than others too!!!
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Winners Win on December 20, 2023, 09:29:25 PM
So all race horses don't make money?

done ok with Think of Galaxies (off Burke no less)
sold Crantini for 85K, bought back 8 weeks later for 40K
bought All Gas No Brakes of Luther for 18K, has made over 50K in 10 starts


I do agree buying Greatest Ending knowing he ties up easily is a head scratcher

I believe Anthony has horse racing in his best interest, after all he encourages other trainers to do fractional ownership to get new owners in the game.  Most guys would be trying to blackball them if they could.

And something else many of you don't know and he doesn't go around talking about it....Brave World was 2 steps away from the killers, Anthony bought the horse back and had it shipped on his dime, patched him up to find he a good retirement home.

Lot of know it alls in here who don't know shit

He encourages other trainers to do fractional ownership in public but doesn't care enough to answer their questions when they contact him.
Title: Re: Stable.Ca stiffs
Post by: Generation XYZ on December 21, 2023, 10:35:33 AM
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