HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: bond on December 10, 2023, 11:27:38 PM
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Owner was telling me he just saw Lucas sunning himself in the tropics after getting ripped off in training bills
The training bills run at 10,000$ a month or more and what pissed him off was when he loaded his trailer up to go train at Meadowland he charged something like 500$ a horse!!
Not sure about the other Swedes but they certainly know how to charge.
IMHO he couldn’t hold Ake’s jock strap so boggles the mind how he gets clients.
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If true this is outrageous and obscene! These guys are pricing themselves OUT of the business for what they do! Does anyone know AKE's monthly fees?
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They say Engblom prices are up there as well
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Owner was telling me he just saw Lucas sunning himself in the tropics after getting ripped off in training bills
The training bills run at 10,000$ a month or more and what pissed him off was when he loaded his trailer up to go train at Meadowland he charged something like 500$ a horse!!
Not sure about the other Swedes but they certainly know how to charge.
IMHO he couldn’t hold Ake’s jock strap so boggles the mind how he gets clients.
They only charge that amount because idiots pay that amount!
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If true this is outrageous and obscene! These guys are pricing themselves OUT of the business for what they do! Does anyone know AKE's monthly fees?
Ake used to be 75, or 80.00 per day. There are a few add ons like groom's housing, and the normal surcharges, Shipping etc. But even if Ake is 90 - 100.00 per day thers a big difference between Wallin and AKE. Lets be real here. Wallin is marginal at best.
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Ake used to be 75, or 80.00 per day. There are a few add ons like groom's housing, and the normal surcharges, Shipping etc. But even if Ake is 90 - 100.00 per day thers a big difference between Wallin and AKE. Lets be real here. Wallin is marginal at best.
hes over a 100 aday right now
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it is getting out of control
yes costs are rising but purses are not
tough to break even
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it is getting out of control
yes costs are rising but purses are not
tough to break even
But in perspective TB's are a minimum of 130.00 per day to $350.00
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Sport of kings
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hes over a 100 aday right now
At $ 100/day ownership better be getting desired results, otherwise it might be time to move on!
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$100 a day is nothing. Thats 3k a month.
Its all the extras and hidden fees.
shipping
paddocks
blacksmith
vet
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Who doesn't charge for Blacksmith, vet, paddocks and shipping. Only a moron, I've been charging those since the 60's. I charged for equipment, for a groom to be at the blacksmith shop, my travel plus exp for grooms on the road (15.00 per day), % for grooms. Daily rates, are what ever they are, if ya don't like them move some where cheaper. So the kid took a vacation to Hawaii with his family, I Know I took a vacation every winter, couldn't do it in the summer. You think he's overcharging, he has had a pretty decent year.
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I am calling BS on this one. No way is this guy paying Lucas Wallin $10k per month to train a horse. No chance. Period. Now, if you want to tell me this is a one-off, isolated situation -- a stakes (winning) horse -- AND THIS BILL INCLUDES the trainer's 5% share (of a stakes win or two that particular month), shipping, vet work, etc., OK, I will buy that. But $10k -- if it exists -- is a one-off, an exception. No way it is the norm. BS.
I've met Lucas several times, seen him around plenty, spoke to him, etc. When Lucas had Rebuff racing, I saw him one morning in Lexington and we talked. I asked him his daily rate, vet work, feed, etc. I was curious for myself. For my life I don't remember what he said, but that's because it was a normal, typical number. He's a young, up and coming trainer, and if he continues, gets support, makes quality, intelligent decisions, he could have a very good future in front of him. Maybe exceptional. If you want a Swedish/Scandinavian trainer, and one who runs a public stable, having an alternative to Nancy Takter IMO is a good thing! LOL. Remember, Lucas did very well for himself from jump when he went on his own, and no, I don't mean from his daily rate. He owned a piece of Rebuff. He bought him as a yearling on his own account, and only had one owner interested, and that was for a small piece. That owner bought 10% immediately, After that Lucas sold the majority of the horse to another owner, but he still retained 15 or 20% for himself. The horse earned just under $1mm.
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tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
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I am calling BS on this one. No way is this guy paying Lucas Wallin $10k per month to train a horse. No chance. Period. Now, if you want to tell me this is a one-off, isolated situation -- a stakes (winning) horse -- AND THIS BILL INCLUDES the trainer's 5% share (of a stakes win or two that particular month), shipping, vet work, etc., OK, I will buy that. But $10k -- if it exists -- is a one-off, an exception. No way it is the norm. BS.
I've met Lucas several times, seen him around plenty, spoke to him, etc. When Lucas had Rebuff racing, I saw him one morning in Lexington and we talked. I asked him his daily rate, vet work, feed, etc. I was curious for myself. For my life I don't remember what he said, but that's because it was a normal, typical number. He's a young, up and coming trainer, and if he continues, gets support, makes quality, intelligent decisions, he could have a very good future in front of him. Maybe exceptional. If you want a Swedish/Scandinavian trainer, and one who runs a public stable, having an alternative to Nancy Takter IMO is a good thing! LOL. Remember, Lucas did very well for himself from jump when he went on his own, and no, I don't mean from his daily rate. He owned a piece of Rebuff. He bought him as a yearling on his own account, and only had one owner interested, and that was for a small piece. That owner bought 10% immediately, After that Lucas sold the majority of the horse to another owner, but he still retained 15 or 20% for himself. The horse earned just under $1mm.
Im not sure about Nancy bills--but the owner told me that Lucas Wallin charged more than Jimmy Takter--he had horses with both-and is very wealthy-someone who can afford high bills. What pissed him off like I said--he fills up his 6 horse trailer to go TRAIN-then instead of pro-rating costs-he charged each horse something like 500$ EACH. you don't do that to wealthy owners--they have money-but are not stupid. The 10,000/month was not a one off--in fact he had a few months the bill was close to 15. Yes they were stake horses-but with those fees they would want to win 150K a year to break EVEN. I posted this because I was just surprised at the costs he charged as I assumed someone who starts at the bottom would be the lowest in costs--appears I was mistaken.
I wish Lucas the best-don't wish him any ill will--just a heads up.
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Im not sure about Nancy bills--but the owner told me that Lucas Wallin charged more than Jimmy Takter--he had horses with both-and is very wealthy-someone who can afford high bills. What pissed him off like I said--he fills up his 6 horse trailer to go TRAIN-then instead of pro-rating costs-he charged each horse something like 500$ EACH. you don't do that to wealthy owners--they have money-but are not stupid. The 10,000/month was not a one off--in fact he had a few months the bill was close to 15. Yes they were stake horses-but with those fees they would want to win 150K a year to break EVEN. I posted this because I was just surprised at the costs he charged as I assumed someone who starts at the bottom would be the lowest in costs--appears I was mistaken.
I wish Lucas the best-don't wish him any ill will--just a heads up.
Even with Casie Coleman’s “bills”, you needed about $ 100000 [not sure if this was US or Canadian $] just to break even!
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Everybody charges to go to Big M to train, it's never been free. Pelling was charging 100. back in the 90's, nobody bitched, if ya did he didn't train for ya. If you don't know the costs going in it's on you. Always ask, How Much do YOU charge. Can't imagine sending a bill and not having discussed this with my owners. I remember a time when Chuck Sylvester was charging a buck for faxes and for anytime you phoned Sharon. How much did Troy and Beek make shipping? One of my owners sent them a colt, he showed me the bills, nothing free
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who knows what else was in the monthly bills, starting fees, special treatments etc, shipping, grooms cost if travelling with a stake horse
he has to be within line to the other guys or owners would leave
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Sport of kings
Correction, the ‘new sport of kings’ if you employ these trainers!!
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Im not sure about Nancy bills--but the owner told me that Lucas Wallin charged more than Jimmy Takter--he had horses with both-and is very wealthy-someone who can afford high bills. What pissed him off like I said--he fills up his 6 horse trailer to go TRAIN-then instead of pro-rating costs-he charged each horse something like 500$ EACH. you don't do that to wealthy owners--they have money-but are not stupid. The 10,000/month was not a one off--in fact he had a few months the bill was close to 15. Yes they were stake horses-but with those fees they would want to win 150K a year to break EVEN. I posted this because I was just surprised at the costs he charged as I assumed someone who starts at the bottom would be the lowest in costs--appears I was mistaken.
I wish Lucas the best-don't wish him any ill will--just a heads up.
Like I said, I am calling BS. No chance this is true. This owner is full of sh#t. You will never hear another owner claiming they pay a normal, typical 10k training bill to Lucas Wallin, or any trainer for that matter. Period. Bob Baffert, Todd Pletcher, Chad Brown, no thoroughbred trainer charges even close to a daily rate that could add up to $10k per month.
What makes this even more BS is a guy complaining about paying a "special" or "solo" shipping rate of $5000, instead of a "freight" rate, and that's his beef -- rather than $10k training bill. Any bill that is $10k (is a one-off exception) INCLUDES the trainer's percentage, AND barn stake/bonus, stakes payments, and some sort of commission. If this is true, and I still say it's BS, then there is something very big missing here. Maybe surgery? A trainer's commission for the sale of a horse. I know one trainer who used to bill that over several months if the owner requested it. No way is a guy regularly paying $10k per month.
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I agree...sounds very high. Who could afford that on a regular basis?
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I call bullshit on this. Lucas is up and coming trainer if he is getting that much can’t imagine what the others are getting. Maybe owner should post the bill instead of having his friend come in here talking shit
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I agree...sounds very high. Who could afford that on a regular basis?
Not hard to get over $10k in a month on stakes horses. You could easily have that in entry fees and shipping alone in the summer.
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Im not sure about Nancy bills--but the owner told me that Lucas Wallin charged more than Jimmy Takter--he had horses with both-and is very wealthy-someone who can afford high bills. What pissed him off like I said--he fills up his 6 horse trailer to go TRAIN-then instead of pro-rating costs-he charged each horse something like 500$ EACH. you don't do that to wealthy owners--they have money-but are not stupid. The 10,000/month was not a one off--in fact he had a few months the bill was close to 15. Yes they were stake horses-but with those fees they would want to win 150K a year to break EVEN. I posted this because I was just surprised at the costs he charged as I assumed someone who starts at the bottom would be the lowest in costs--appears I was mistaken.
I wish Lucas the best-don't wish him any ill will--just a heads up.
Going rate for shipping from the farms around New Egypt is $200 per head. Not “something like $500”. Lucas didn’t start at the bottom he had the backing to come out swinging right out of the gate. And produced results. He is a in demand trainer at the moment he should be charging top dollar
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Im not sure about Nancy bills--but the owner told me that Lucas Wallin charged more than Jimmy Takter--he had horses with both-and is very wealthy-someone who can afford high bills. What pissed him off like I said--he fills up his 6 horse trailer to go TRAIN-then instead of pro-rating costs-he charged each horse something like 500$ EACH. you don't do that to wealthy owners--they have money-but are not stupid. The 10,000/month was not a one off--in fact he had a few months the bill was close to 15. Yes they were stake horses-but with those fees they would want to win 150K a year to break EVEN. I posted this because I was just surprised at the costs he charged as I assumed someone who starts at the bottom would be the lowest in costs--appears I was mistaken.
I wish Lucas the best-don't wish him any ill will--just a heads up.
Very wealthy? Are you talking to Mario Mazza? Come on he bitches about everything.
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Why are we still talking about this? There is zero chance his bills on a regular basis are $10k. That's absurd to think anyone charges that on a regular monthly basis.
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There is NO way ANY trainer can get $10,000 per month for STRAIGHT per days training, shipping, stall space, paddock fees, etc. If vet bills are $5000 per month, unload that horse! That is a ridiculous amount if it EXCLUDES starting fees and % retained as a partner fees.