HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: brownmoose13 on October 09, 2023, 11:21:44 PM
-
How is it possible for a trainer to purchase yearlings on one day and then have them hooked to a jog cart, the next day calmly walking them to the track and then jog like its old hat?
-
Anything is possible, but definitely not probable, unless of course the yearling was already broke when purchased. Are you referring to a specific yearling or trainer?
-
1 - breeding has improved
2 - they’re handled much more around the breeding farms now before they sell
-
Brownmoose and Swandre are 100% spot on
I was surprised to see them hooked and jogging the first day too
but if you watch any of AM videos from theStable's yearlings, they are hooked the first day
1 extra man on the jog cart with lead rope
-
And it its a yearling you send to Greg Peck, He's training them down in a week, so they barely make to the track as a 2yr.
-
Brownmoose and Swandre are 100% spot on
I was surprised to see them hooked and jogging the first day too
but if you watch any of AM videos from theStable's yearlings, they are hooked the first day
1 extra man on the jog cart with lead rope
They just don’t post videos of the ones that are upside down in the ditches
-
My understanding is that the only way to purchase a yearling at a sale and do what I mentioned is to tranquilize the horse so videos can be made. If this is true aren't we talking about needles and syringes and then where are the judges. When we buy yearlings it takes us 3-4 weeks to break them properly but then again we are not trying to impress anyone
-
My understanding is that the only way to purchase a yearling at a sale and do what I mentioned is to tranquilize the horse so videos can be made. If this is true aren't we talking about needles and syringes and then where are the judges. When we buy yearlings it takes us 3-4 weeks to break them properly but then again we are not trying to impress anyone
No in many cases, guys get them home and throw a harness on them for a day or two, and by second or third day they hook them. This is not an unusual practice.
-
No in many cases, guys get them home and throw a harness on them for a day or two, and by second or third day they hook them. This is not an unusual practice.
I believe you, but what's the rush? At least line drive them for a week or so before you hook them up. Just to eliminate the risk of injury to the horse and yourself.
-
I believe you, but what's the rush? At least line drive them for a week or so before you hook them up. Just to eliminate the risk of injury to the horse and yourself.
Yearling sales for thoroughbreds, there are certain farms/consignors are already breaking them to bridle/saddle and being led with and without rider. Been awhile since I broke a standardbred, not sure if farms are breaking standardbreds to harness and bridle ? Nice little selling point taking that step out of the equation.
-
I believe you, but what's the rush? At least line drive them for a week or so before you hook them up. Just to eliminate the risk of injury to the horse and yourself.
makes a lot of sense to me.
-
I believe you, but what's the rush? At least line drive them for a week or so before you hook them up. Just to eliminate the risk of injury to the horse and yourself.
The way alot of guys do this nowadays is a continuous progression of the "push button "society we live in today! You have to hurry up and see if they are keepers before it's too late for a replacement!
-
My understanding is that the only way to purchase a yearling at a sale and do what I mentioned is to tranquilize the horse so videos can be made. If this is true aren't we talking about needles and syringes and then where are the judges. When we buy yearlings it takes us 3-4 weeks to break them properly but then again we are not trying to impress anyone
Anywhere except Jersey you can have needles and medicines in your barn if not stabled at the track. In Jersey you can easily get the vet to tranquilize
-
Turn them out till after Harrisburg, does anybody believe that a month earlier start makes a difference. If you have to break them go for a couple weeks and kick them out. We never broke any yearlings till middle of November when we got to Fla. Never had a problem, we were ahead of the people in the north anyway. Never TQ, some time you have to take it away and ya never know how they'll be.
-
When I work for Jerry Silverman, they would come from Harrisburg straight to Florida. As soon as they got off the truck or that morning we would put all their equipment on including hobbles. Take them out on a third line and start jogging. By day 3 there on there own
-
HHHMMMM. So we have something else in common. I worked for Jerry briefly. He was down a groom and I decided to give it a shot. Biggest name trainer I had been with at the time. Definitely a bit nervous, but Jerry was cool. I'm talking the DontDally days. From there it was on to Lew Williams. Incredible horseman, even when he was fucked up.
-
We have had some we could hook in 3 days, others nearly 3 weeks.
-
HHHMMMM. So we have something else in common. I worked for Jerry briefly. He was down a groom and I decided to give it a shot. Biggest name trainer I had been with at the time. Definitely a bit nervous, but Jerry was cool. I'm talking the DontDally days. From there it was on to Lew Williams. Incredible horseman, even when he was fucked up.
Sounds like you guys rode along with Moody.
-
HHHMMMM. So we have something else in common. I worked for Jerry briefly. He was down a groom and I decided to give it a shot. Biggest name trainer I had been with at the time. Definitely a bit nervous, but Jerry was cool. I'm talking the DontDally days. From there it was on to Lew Williams. Incredible horseman, even when he was fucked up.
I remember some of the Yankees coming in the barn. Phil Rizzuto sweet Lou! (The Pinstripe stable) Had an opportunity to go to Florida for the winter took it. Imagine that we probably know one another!
-
Sounds like you guys rode along with Moody.
Moody! Yes we be old lol.
-
I remember some of the Yankees coming in the barn. Phil Rizzuto sweet Lou! (The Pinstripe stable) Had an opportunity to go to Florida for the winter took it. Imagine that we probably know one another!
Don’t forget Roy White and Mattingly and nobody like the horses better than Mickey Rivers
-
No in many cases, guys get them home and throw a harness on them for a day or two, and by second or third day they hook them. This is not an unusual practice.
I am not talking about second or third day..I am talking about all yearlings the very next day. If you saw the videos I cannot believe they are not TQ'ed
-
You can find out some quirks in the ones by first crop sires before Harrisburg
-
Don’t forget Roy White and Mattingly and nobody like the horses better than Mickey Rivers
Can tell ya stories about Whitey Ford and John Montefusco
-
And it its a yearling you send to Greg Peck, He's training them down in a week, so they barely make to the track as a 2yr.
i hate the crazy man but i will give him this, he got a halter and harnesss on one of mine day 1 that no one else could
-
i hate the crazy man but i will give him this, he got a halter and harnesss on one of mine day 1 that no one else could
Ok, but lets not tell anyone this after today. ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
-
I am not talking about second or third day..I am talking about all yearlings the very next day. If you saw the videos I cannot believe they are not TQ'ed
Well there’s no cure for stupid I guess.
-
i hate the crazy man but i will give him this, he got a halter and harnesss on one of mine day 1 that no one else could
[/quote
Probably beat it into submission first.
-
In the 90's I had one on the farm that I put the harness on one day and cart the next day and off I went with no trouble. I remember a cattle dealer harness horseman his last name was Mothersell had a horse at Waterloo fairgrounds that he didn't take the harness off once he got it on him. Can't remember how long he left it on him but it was at least a week or longer. He had had some great stories. Billy Martin the Yankee manager had an apartment in East Rutherford and I used to drink and play pool with him on Sundays during the off season.
-
Biggest difference is we purified the breed. The breeders have breed out the wildness or ignorance we use to see 40 yrs ago. Now they pretty much hit the ground trotting or pacing. I can remember seeing trainers putting leather hopples on them , burning all four legs just to get them to pace slow. Now when you have a conversation with a colt trainer they don’t have any expectations til the can train a pacer faster then 2:05. I can remember way back when trainers thought they had something if the could go a mile in 20.
On the trot side I can remember changing a babies shoes sometimes 3 times in one morning when training them trying to get them to stay flat. Nowadays if that’s the case they Amish them.
-
Petrelli posted this recently, seems to be stalking RWS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD6wkUAdNRU
-
How is it possible for a trainer to purchase yearlings on one day and then have them hooked to a jog cart, the next day calmly walking them to the track and then jog like its old hat?
The majority get sent to breeding facilities or the like to get prepped before the sales. They prefer to have them for 60 days. That's a lot of handling and brushing. Then they have at least 2 days at the sale being brought out for buyers over and over again. If you have a nut after all that...then you probably have a nut. If it's a colt then you de-nut and if it's a filly, God help you.
-
I have been in harness racing for about 50 years so almost all the trainers I know are 55 or older and each and every one of them takes 2- 3 weeks to break a yearling...old fashioned I guess and also not trying to impress the fractional newbies
-
I have been in harness racing for about 50 years so almost all the trainers I know are 55 or older and each and every one of them takes 2- 3 weeks to break a yearling...old fashioned I guess and also not trying to impress the fractional newbies
The best thing about breaking yearlings is the line driving. Teaching them to do figure eights, stop,start etc. If you put in the time you seem to get the best results.
-
It’s not like it used to be…now they have been handled a lot more…usually rig them up,throw in field for an hour with harness,bridle and hobbles bring them in line drive for a bit then hook them with a 3rd line on go one lap around take 3rd line off by 2nd or 3rd day they are on their own…unless it’s a Bob Key horse those are orangutans never been handled they typically take a few days to a week
-
It’s not like it used to be…now they have been handled a lot more…usually rig them up,throw in field for an hour with harness,bridle and hobbles bring them in line drive for a bit then hook them with a 3rd line on go one lap around take 3rd line off by 2nd or 3rd day they are on their own…unless it’s a Bob Key horse those are orangutans never been handled they typically take a few days to a week
WOW!!! To this day I have never heard of a yearling coming from a sale that is even half broke and that is from small and large consignors/farms.
-
WOW!!! To this day I have never heard of a yearling coming from a sale that is even half broke and that is from small and large consignors/farms.
Not sure if they still do it now. But when DC was first getting started they would put their babies on the Walker with harness and bitting rig last 2 weeks before sale. For me I wouldn’t put a cart on till they clearly knew left,right and most importantly Whoa. Some took a couple days some a week. Overall the breed has changed so much last 30 years. When I got started it wasn’t a concern if you never saw a true pace the first month. Now if they don’t pace first couple days I get worried.
-
WOW!!! To this day I have never heard of a yearling coming from a sale that is even half broke and that is from small and large consignors/farms.
I had trouble picking up feet on half the yearlings at Lexington -- they were definitely not broke. Consigners were complaining about short on help. I had two women in their 60s/70s show me a yearling at Brittany.
-
there is no hurry anyway
take your time
-
40 or so years ago a mid-west farmer backs his cattle trailer up to my barn. With a cattle prod he unloads and herds three three year old fillies into one stall.
Unbroke and untouched by human hands they had spent all their lives in with the beef cattle.
(AS I RECALL WE DID NOT HOOK THEM THE NEXT DAY)
-
An old story about breaking yearlings.
An owner asks The Old Trainer "What will you charge to break my yearling"?
The Old Trainer "$800 a month".
Owner "What if I help you"?
The Old Trainer "In that case a thousand a month".
-
An old story about breaking yearlings.
An owner asks The Old Trainer "What will you charge to break my yearling"?
The Old Trainer "$800 a month".
Owner "What if I help you"?
The Old Trainer "In that case a thousand a month".
Here is a believe it or not story but actually you should believe it because I was there and saw it. I am not going to name any names but back around 1977 there was a guy in my barn who bought a yearling filly out of the Old Glory Sale. Him and 2 other guys line drove her for about a week and then decided it was time to hook her to a cart. Everytime they hooked her, she took about 5 steps and laid down. Amazingly, she never broke up the wooden cart. One day, I show up at the barn and I see them spreading straw out on the road leading to the track. I couldn't figure out what the hell they were doing. Finally, I see them walk the filly out and hook her to the cart. She once again takes about 5 or 6 steps and lays down right where the straw was spread out. The trainer calmly walks over by her head, bends down and lights the straw on fire. I kid you not. The horse springs to her feet and away they go. Two things, she never layed down again after being hooked and she never made it to the races. They got 300 bucks from the amish for her.
-
Sold a yearling years ago, the guy who bought her called me the next day. He said you didn't tell me she was broke to drive, I said she's never had a harness on. Well I'm standing her watching her jog on my track he said.
-
Here is a believe it or not story but actually you should believe it because I was there and saw it. I am not going to name any names but back around 1977 there was a guy in my barn who bought a yearling filly out of the Old Glory Sale. Him and 2 other guys line drove her for about a week and then decided it was time to hook her to a cart. Everytime they hooked her, she took about 5 steps and laid down. Amazingly, she never broke up the wooden cart. One day, I show up at the barn and I see them spreading straw out on the road leading to the track. I couldn't figure out what the hell they were doing. Finally, I see them walk the filly out and hook her to the cart. She once again takes about 5 or 6 steps and lays down right where the straw was spread out. The trainer calmly walks over by her head, bends down and lights the straw on fire. I kid you not. The horse springs to her feet and away they go. Two things, she never layed down again after being hooked and she never made it to the races. They got 300 bucks from the amish for her.
Great story. That technique is quite drastic, but I have witnessed other methods to get a yearling to their feet. And I could think of two or three guys who authored your story. Doubt the event had anything to do with the Amish -- probably lack of talent.
-
I have been in harness racing for about 50 years so almost all the trainers I know are 55 or older and each and every one of them takes 2- 3 weeks to break a yearling...old fashioned I guess and also not trying to impress the fractional newbies
I believe anything else is a road to disaster.
-
Horses were definitley better broke 30 years ago. i have a barn full of horses that need 2 people to hook. I know I am dating myself but horses used to stand while being hooked and that is with the old tie down harness and not the quick hitch of today. I guess I am a grumpy old man.
-
Don’t forget Roy White and Mattingly and nobody like the horses better than Mickey Rivers
That’s right! They belong to that group, but I’ve never saw them.
-
Can tell ya stories about Whitey Ford and John Montefusco
would love to hear that!
-
Ya gotta see what you got as soon as you can home from the sale, that way you can get a replacement before all the sales are over! Very few take the time to develop a youngster any more. It is hook and go go go till they can't go no more! It's all about the natural ability!SMH
-
Horses were definitley better broke 30 years ago. i have a barn full of horses that need 2 people to hook. I know I am dating myself but horses used to stand while being hooked and that is with the old tie down harness and not the quick hitch of today. I guess I am a grumpy old man.
tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
The snap of the quick hitch is a starters gun to some horses.
See I can be nice.
-
tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
The snap of the quick hitch is a starters gun to some horses.
See I can be nice.
I think the problem is most of the horses today learned how to be hooked inside the barn. When you try to hook them outside, they won't stand still.
-
tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
The snap of the quick hitch is a starters gun to some horses.
See I can be nice.
Going way back I watched a trainer do the same thing with his yearlings year after year. Start with people with a lunge line on each side. Would tell them which way he was turning . Then the next week he woild line drive by himself . The 3 rd week he placed a metal barrel at the end of the barn and have a groom stand there with a pail of horse shoes. When he line drove the yearling about 20 ft past the barrel he would have the groom dump the shoes into the barrel. He was ready but with some it was a sight. By the end of the week his yearlings would pay no attention. Then hed hook and go alone, no third line. Nothing ever bothered the. Tractors, water wagons, graders, nothing.
-
Just saw an article about the 2yr old Canadian sensation Captains Quarters that explains how he was broke and started his career in the GREG PECK barn! The owner states that Peck was jogging in a cornfield and up and down The 59 mile Delaware Tow Way! The owner said when he was made aware of these practices,he had to move the colt to a traditional training center. The rest is history! GP must be detained someplace or this would have been brought to light after the colts win over Captain Cody last start!
-
What's wrong with jogging them in a cornfield. I dont know what the Tow way is. Is it a dangerous practice. New a guy from Saratoga who use to start his babies jogging in a cow field with a German Shepard chasing them and he did quite well for himself. Not Dan Wilsey, but he used to drive for him
-
I guess this "tow way" is some kind of pathway that used to be part of the transportation industry. The story is on Harnesslink today on the Canadian news page I believe.
-
Figured something like that...ty
-
Going way back I watched a trainer do the same thing with his yearlings year after year. Start with people with a lunge line on each side. Would tell them which way he was turning . Then the next week he woild line drive by himself . The 3 rd week he placed a metal barrel at the end of the barn and have a groom stand there with a pail of horse shoes. When he line drove the yearling about 20 ft past the barrel he would have the groom dump the shoes into the barrel. He was ready but with some it was a sight. By the end of the week his yearlings would pay no attention. Then hed hook and go alone, no third line. Nothing ever bothered the. Tractors, water wagons, graders, nothing.
great story. Loved hearing that methodology! reminds me of something my wife told me her father did the day she was brought home as a newborn. He opened all the windows, turned on all the appliances, tvs and stereos he could top volume creating an orchestra of "white noise" and then he and her mom started screaming at each other getting the dogs barking. He said if she's gonna live in this household, she better get accustomed quick to how things go around here.
She's still pretty chill. Needs to be living with Fuguzzi. I'll say one thing in all my time in the business, she never complained, God love her and you know how it goes. $5,000 on the kitchen table one night, $5, the next.... ;D
-
was also arrested for training on this towpath
then arrested for jogging them through town
-
ruh roh tmbz1
-
I think I recall in an interview where Jack Darling said he sends his yearlings to the Amish to break and brings them back in December.
-
I think I recall in an interview where Jack Darling said he sends his yearlings to the Amish to break and brings them back in December.
If you're very quiet, you can hear Haughton, Dancer, Beissinger, and Ervin all rolling over in their graves if people are actually doing that. The amish are horse abusers that hide behind religion to not be thrown in jail.
-
The tow way is a walking/jogging path that runs along the Delaware River in New Hope,Pa. He would trailer them to a parking area and work off the trailer from there. The first time he got arrested the poor horses had to stand on the trailer there for 8 hours before he got bailed out. After that he started jogging them on the road. It is a very winding road with lots of blind spots
-
If you're very quiet, you can hear Haughton, Dancer, Beissinger, and Ervin all rolling over in their graves if people are actually doing that. The amish are horse abusers that hide behind religion to not be thrown in jail.
While I have the pasture ornaments to prove the Amish aren't always kind to their horses in work, don't mistake that they can't break one. There are plenty of very good Amish Horsemen. I don't agree with the way a lot of them end up, a but I would certainly let a trusted one break a horse. Just be careful painting with too broad a brush.
-
While I have the pasture ornaments to prove the Amish aren't always kind to their horses in work, don't mistake that they can't break one. There are plenty of very good Amish Horsemen. I don't agree with the way a lot of them end up, a but I would certainly let a trusted one break a horse. Just be careful painting with too broad a brush.
My opinion won't change. They abuse animals but you are welcome to believe otherwise.
-
My opinion won't change. They abuse animals but you are welcome to believe otherwise.
Oh I am WELL aware they do, but not all of them. Just like Hiteman et al do but not everyone in racing does. That's all I'm saying.
-
Oh I am WELL aware they do, but not all of them. Just like Hiteman et al do but not everyone in racing does. That's all I'm saying.
I understand your point but unlike Hiteman and others who have been for lack of a better term convicted of abuse, many have tried and failed to have Amish arrested because they are protected by their religious beliefs and trust me, they abuse horses worse than Dale Hiteman ever did.
-
I understand your point but unlike Hiteman and others who have been for lack of a better term convicted of abuse, many have tried and failed to have Amish arrested because they are protected by their religious beliefs and trust me, they abuse horses worse than Dale Hiteman ever did.
100% agree with you there. You do the crime, you do the time. It's BS that there's no repercussions.
-
100% agree with you there. You do the crime, you do the time. It's BS that there's no repercussions.
The United State Government runs from confrontation from religious groups. It's a can of worms they don't want to open.
-
I knew Jimmy Groff on White Star Rd in Strasburg Pa. Amish He raced an Open Mare at the BigM and she did very well Have been to his place many years ago never knew him to abuse one The mare was named Brynn M and Jimmy drove her Of course this doesnt prove anything about the Amish as horseman just defending Jimmy