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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Harness racer on October 04, 2023, 09:38:55 PM

Title: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Harness racer on October 04, 2023, 09:38:55 PM
Big matchup Friday.  I think Karl destroys the field!
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: TimTimTimbo on October 04, 2023, 09:53:33 PM
Yep, I think he beats T C I especially if that last start took it out of him.

Karl looks like an absolute3 monster
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: ferdinand the bull on October 04, 2023, 10:14:59 PM
Jimmy will have Karl on top of his game heading into the BC
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Harness racer on October 04, 2023, 11:19:09 PM
I agree with both of those statements.  Karl took a little longer to get ready, but he looks great so far.  He will own these last couple big races.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: SeattleSlew on October 05, 2023, 06:22:47 AM
I'll join the Karl camp also.  He has the rail and I would guess T.C.I. may be eased off the gate after his last antics.  Yannick knows how to steal slow fractions and if T.C.I. comes early Yannick drove T.C.I. in 4 of his early races (2 qualifiers and one at ML and another at Philly) so he probably has a sense of what that horse can do.  I see too many o's next to T.C.I.'s 1st quarter lines, which tells me he will have to work for the front.  They expect possibility of showers and relatively cool temps with moderate wind, so not likely to see the stopwatch shatter on this one, but should make great watching!
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: PineHurstPacer on October 05, 2023, 06:42:55 AM
TCI was mad and ran because they changed his bit (D Miller)

I think He leaves and we see a match race down the stretch

Burke doesn't race to be 2nd
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: shotgunner on October 05, 2023, 11:08:58 AM
Karl looks super impressive, only real thing I'd be worried about is if TCI was able to get to the front and make Karl trot on his outside from the top of the lane on. Karl has been running in a bit late in the mile the last few starts. If Yannick has to check him to keep him straight, could give TCI the advantage he needs.

TCI hasn't gone the fast miles that Karl has, but there are some caveats to that as well. 1: He hasn't been at the Red Mile. 2: Every time they ask TCI for more, it's been there. Don't know where his bottom is, but that'll likely change tomorrow.
TCI also added a head pole, murphy blind, and a new bit last start. He's shown the propensity to race greenly at times as well, so who knows if he's 100% going into the match up.

TLDR: Karl has to be the favorite based on his dominating speed performances, but there's enough room for TCI to win. Anything over 3-1 on TCI is a must bet.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Mailbox Money on October 05, 2023, 11:17:38 AM
I'll take a stab and say Karl will be 6-5 and TCI will go off at 7-5. I'm just hoping that the early fractions are hot!
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: augustaandy on October 05, 2023, 12:14:58 PM
Karl, nuff said
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: hoosierboy on October 05, 2023, 05:25:42 PM
TCI
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: TimTimTimbo on October 06, 2023, 01:44:54 PM
Coming up in 5 minutes

Karl 1/9 at this second.

T C I had such a hard race, last time, they would be stupid to even push him. Even if they do, I think he gets beat by Karl but that's why they race.

We shall find out soon
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: TimTimTimbo on October 06, 2023, 01:58:32 PM
T C I gets up. . Great race though. Gonna take a few more races to decide this one. T C I does not stop and Karl did a little Fred Astaire near the finish
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Foalin at 4 on October 06, 2023, 02:03:28 PM
TCI, monster! Refuses to lose, guess we found out who the real deal is.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Anakin on October 06, 2023, 02:06:36 PM
T C I gets up. . Great race though. Gonna take a few more races to decide this one. T C I does not stop and Karl did a little Fred Astaire near the finish

Karl had the advantage coming staying at his home track while setting slow fractions, while TCI has literally shipped all over. and had to chase from pocket over a speed favoring track.

Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: TimTimTimbo on October 06, 2023, 02:12:13 PM
Karl had the advantage coming staying at his home track while setting slow fractions, while TCI has literally shipped all over. and had to chase from pocket over a speed favoring track.


Yep. Advantage T C I
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Chips N Salsa on October 06, 2023, 02:16:28 PM
I thought Karl looked bad coming into the stretch under pressure.  Didn't look like he was trotting well at all.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Stan durbread on October 06, 2023, 02:18:10 PM
Best part of the race was waiting for the photo results. Nancy watched on phone. Just as she got in the van they announced TCI. Burkes man hollers. Get out of the van. She didn’t think it was as funny as the rest of us. Lmaof
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Foalin at 4 on October 06, 2023, 02:21:10 PM
It's not unusual for the $1,047,000. earner to beat the $330,000. earner. There is a reason he's a millionaire!
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Foalin at 4 on October 06, 2023, 02:24:10 PM
I thought Karl looked bad coming into the stretch under pressure.  Didn't look like he was trotting well at all.

 Agree, Karl was full out, just doesn't have the speed to go with TCI!
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Harness Stats on October 06, 2023, 02:29:32 PM
Not a matter of speed in this case.  You could see just by looking at his head and shoulders that something was off in the stretch and he wasn't catching full stride. 
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Laag on October 06, 2023, 02:30:22 PM
There has never been a 2 year old trotter  this good
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Anakin on October 06, 2023, 02:39:50 PM
Best part of the race was waiting for the photo results. Nancy watched on phone. Just as she got in the van they announced TCI. Burkes man hollers. Get out of the van. She didn’t think it was as funny as the rest of us. Lmaof

That is awesome! Harness racing needs a rivalry like this.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Foalin at 4 on October 06, 2023, 02:41:31 PM
Not a matter of speed in this case.  You could see just by looking at his head and shoulders that something was off in the stretch and he wasn't catching full stride.

   That is what a 2 year old trotter looks like when overextended, Karl has never been asked to trot against a horse like TCI. Karl didn't have the speed to hold him off because he didn't have the speed to hold him off.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: shotgunner on October 06, 2023, 02:51:27 PM
   That is what a 2 year old trotter looks like when overextended, Karl has never been asked to trot against a horse like TCI. Karl didn't have the speed to hold him off because he didn't have the speed to hold him off.

Gonna call bullshit, Karl has been running in more and more every start. Nancy added a driving bit today to try and prevent him from doing that. Plenty of speed but judging by the video and how he's rigged, he's ouchy right front. Actually a big effort by him to keep trotting.

TCI was better today but neither one was super steady down the lane. I'd be surprised if we saw TCI anywhere else besides Breeders Crown. I say doubtful that Karl races again until next year.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Kirbys Ace on October 06, 2023, 02:54:53 PM
It sure didn't hurt that TCI was a bigger/Longer horse. If you looked at the wheels Millers wheel was behind Gingras wheel when they hit the finish. But just that lil running in by Karl right before the wire did cost him.

Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: LUCPARK on October 06, 2023, 03:12:14 PM
 WHAT DOES TCI STAND FOR CURIOUS?
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Foalin at 4 on October 06, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
Gonna call bullshit, Karl has been running in more and more every start. Nancy added a driving bit today to try and prevent him from doing that. Plenty of speed but judging by the video and how he's rigged, he's ouchy right front. Actually a big effort by him to keep trotting.

TCI was better today but neither one was super steady down the lane. I'd be surprised if we saw TCI anywhere else besides Breeders Crown. I say doubtful that Karl races again until next year.

 lmao , I've trained and driven way to many trotters to listen to that bullshit, he was swimming down the stretch, and could go no faster ngc3  ngc3
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Foalin at 4 on October 06, 2023, 03:17:38 PM
WHAT DOES TCI STAND FOR CURIOUS?
 
 
   Turks and Caicos islands
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: shotgunner on October 06, 2023, 03:19:10 PM
lmao , I've trained and driven way to many trotters to listen to that bullshit, he was swimming down the stretch, and could go no faster ngc3  ngc3
Don't pat yourself on the back too hard there.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: PineHurstPacer on October 06, 2023, 03:22:06 PM
I thought Karl looked bad coming into the stretch under pressure.  Didn't look like he was trotting well at all.

just because The Red Mile is lighting fast does not mean every horse will get over it well

he definingly bobbed a couple times in the stretch
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: shotgunner on October 06, 2023, 03:24:06 PM
It sure didn't hurt that TCI was a bigger/Longer horse. If you looked at the wheels Millers wheel was behind Gingras wheel when they hit the finish. But just that lil running in by Karl right before the wire did cost him.

I thought so too.

TCI is the better horse right now, and has a shot at a historic season. Much deserved, horse has done everything asked of him.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: shotgunner on October 06, 2023, 03:25:32 PM
just because The Red Mile is lighting fast does not mean every horse will get over it well

he definingly bobbed a couple times in the stretch
I chalked it up to getting a little crooked, really easy for a 2 yr old to roll into a gallop making a bobble like that.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: dinkadoo on October 06, 2023, 03:49:29 PM
Gingras could’ve of learned something there - at Breeders Crown if on the front keep the pace rolling a little better and keep it from being a quarter mile drag race.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: TimTimTimbo on October 06, 2023, 04:08:07 PM
just because The Red Mile is lighting fast does not mean every horse will get over it well

he definingly bobbed a couple times in the stretch

Remember Nuncio won the Futurity and Campbell said he didn't like track and didn't handle it that well but he still managed to get it done
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Stan durbread on October 06, 2023, 05:09:41 PM
Remember Nuncio won the Futurity and Campbell said he didn't like track and didn't handle it that well but he still managed to get it done
Karl has raced here last 4 starts
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Harness racer on October 07, 2023, 07:29:04 AM
TCI, monster! Refuses to lose, guess we found out who the real deal is.

He didn't have any quit in him.  TCI looked very impressive.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Parked on October 07, 2023, 12:06:18 PM
Gonna call bullshit, Karl has been running in more and more every start. Nancy added a driving bit today to try and prevent him from doing that. Plenty of speed but judging by the video and how he's rigged, he's ouchy right front. Actually a big effort by him to keep trotting.

TCI was better today but neither one was super steady down the lane. I'd be surprised if we saw TCI anywhere else besides Breeders Crown. I say doubtful that Karl races again until next year.


I call it bullshit too. Nancy changed nothing.  Yimmy is in control there…
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: SDST2009 on October 07, 2023, 01:10:53 PM
I really thought Karl won even watching the replay. I wouldn't write him off just yet. Anyone with eyes could see that colt wasn't 100% yesterday and it's not like TCI embarrassed him. If they can get Karl right I am not sure this rivalry is settled.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: pocketrocketwinner on October 07, 2023, 01:29:53 PM
I really thought Karl won even watching the replay. I wouldn't write him off just yet. Anyone with eyes could see that colt wasn't 100% yesterday and it's not like TCI embarrassed him. If they can get Karl right I am not sure this rivalry is settled.

There wasn't any point on video amyway that Karl lost the race.
Added confusion, the judges just DQ'd a horse in race 1 for pylon violation. Again, on video, the horse never went inside any pylon.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: SDST2009 on October 07, 2023, 01:56:29 PM
There wasn't any point on video amyway that Karl lost the race.
Added confusion, the judges just DQ'd a horse in race 1 for pylon violation. Again, on video, the horse never went inside any pylon.

Yikes. That is odd. And yeah..the win photo they showed was mind-blowing. I was certain Karl had won and then when the photo took so long I thought *maybe* a dead heat.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: White Rabbit on October 07, 2023, 07:24:24 PM
I really thought Karl won even watching the replay. I wouldn't write him off just yet. Anyone with eyes could see that colt wasn't 100% yesterday and it's not like TCI embarrassed him. If they can get Karl right I am not sure this rivalry is settled.
Here’s where we will find out how good NT is. If they can get Karl sound & the little hitch he has down the lane, he was paddling lt hind  looked like he might have even hit the fork a few times, has he been smooth I think could have let him hit another gear and he would have trotted away. BC will tells in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: Foalin at 4 on October 07, 2023, 08:59:40 PM
Here’s where we will find out how good NT is. If they can get Karl sound & the little hitch he has down the lane, he was paddling lt hind  looked like he might have even hit the fork a few times, has he been smooth I think could have let him hit another gear and he would have trotted away. BC will tells in a few weeks.


   LMAO, get him sound, also he doesn't have another gear. TCI is clearly the better horse. KARL had everything his own way and got beat. There is a reason one horse has a million made, and the other 300 grand. 
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: SDST2009 on October 07, 2023, 09:38:30 PM

   LMAO, get him sound, also he doesn't have another gear. TCI is clearly the better horse. KARL had everything his own way and got beat. There is a reason one horse has a million made, and the other 300 grand.

Correct, he has raced a lot more and yes, won some big dances. TCI is no joke but man, they are putting a lot of starts on him. Colt must be made of iron.

You act like he blew by Karl. it was quite a stretch drive. Their back halves and quarters were ticks apart. I just didn't see anything that says TCI is a clear victor going forward between the two. Not disparaging either colt.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: SDST2009 on October 07, 2023, 09:41:27 PM
Here’s where we will find out how good NT is. If they can get Karl sound & the little hitch he has down the lane, he was paddling lt hind  looked like he might have even hit the fork a few times, has he been smooth I think could have let him hit another gear and he would have trotted away. BC will tells in a few weeks.

Exactly. And maybe NT/JT won't get him squared away, which will be a shame. But I'd like to see them both on the top of their games at the BC.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: SeattleSlew on October 07, 2023, 10:00:02 PM
I am amazed that Yannick doesn't have a stiff neck after how many times he looked over at TCI alongside him.  It was clear that he was "nursing" Karl and just trying to get enough out of him to squeeze to the wire, so, for sure, Karl had some kind of "issue" where Yannick was afraid he would start to gallop if he asked him for anything more than what he felt he just needed to cross the finish line a nose in front.   Only thing the matchup proved was that Karl had an "issue" and that they both (if Karl is restored to being sound) will be knocking on the door of the Hambo next year.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: shotgunner on October 07, 2023, 11:29:57 PM
I am amazed that Yannick doesn't have a stiff neck after how many times he looked over at TCI alongside him.  It was clear that he was "nursing" Karl and just trying to get enough out of him to squeeze to the wire, so, for sure, Karl had some kind of "issue" where Yannick was afraid he would start to gallop if he asked him for anything more than what he felt he just needed to cross the finish line a nose in front.   Only thing the matchup proved was that Karl had an "issue" and that they both (if Karl is restored to being sound) will be knocking on the door of the Hambo next year.

I think you’re right about Yannick not driving on Karl. Definitely something amiss. But…. Dave Miller wasn’t chasing TCI hard either.
Title: Re: Karl vs TCI
Post by: White Rabbit on October 08, 2023, 08:35:40 AM

   LMAO, get him sound, also he doesn't have another gear. TCI is clearly the better horse. KARL had everything his own way and got beat. There is a reason one horse has a million made, and the other 300 grand.
We can’t possibly know if he does or doesn’t when he’s clearly not solid gated. I watched a his replay from 9/28 he looked good gated then going what appears a wrapped up 51-1. Don’t miss construe what am saying. Trotters with
those little hitches can be vary hard to figure out where it is. She might never find it. 100 yrs ago when I was at Meadowlands, Jim D had a trotter , can’t recall his name but he made close to a mill, the Dr. Balmer and him could not find his issue. He would run every now n then. Dr.Balmer always said if he could have found his spot he would have made another mill.Funny thing about trotters from what I have seen over the years doesn’t matter if their 4claimers or Hambo winners if their not balanced and good gated you can’t cover up their deficiencies with race gas.Their the best test for a great horse person .
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