HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Larry Bird Boy on September 30, 2023, 08:53:22 PM
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They really don’t want to drive qualifiers for free anymore. They are asking all tracks to bill the owners $50 for a qualifying drive to stop trainers from putting them in to qualify if they aren’t ready to go. This should be interesting.
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They really don’t want to drive qualifiers for free anymore. They are asking all tracks to bill the owners $50 for a qualifying drive to stop trainers from putting them in to qualify if they aren’t ready to go. This should be interesting.
ngc3
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I wonder why they didn’t do this earlier. I started thinking half of them don’t even show up anyway so why not just let young guys who are wanting to learn how to drive just let them drive? Each track could have a list of qualifying drivers only who are willing to drive horses in the qualifiers only and save owners money
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Stop the insanity
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Fucking primadonnas.
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They should charge $75 for 2yo's
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They are asking all tracks to bill the owners $50 for a qualifying drive
when they get a race drive will they hand the trainer a $50 if they don't get a check ?
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good idea larry
i am sure owners would pay if the drivers stop charging for their travel expenses
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good idea larry
i am sure owners would pay if the drivers stop charging for their travel expenses
Not my idea. Just heard from a friend at Pocono who says d they are starting to charge for qualifying drives. I thought it’s ridiculous. .
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when they get a race drive will they hand the trainer a $50 if they don't get a check ?
When you get hurt working at your job they pay you? When you go to work and the company makes no money you tell them "Don't worry about paying me?" If it's so damn easy go get your helmet and colors and step right up.
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when they get a race drive will they hand the trainer a $50 if they don't get a check ?
Exactly! I had one of the primadonas drive a horse into the fence after the mile because she was hot behind the gate! There were 3ft slide marks on the track he was going so fast. The horse was sore behind afterwards and it ended up being a torn suspensory! He had about 375k lifetime and was set to make 100k for the 3rd year in a row! Never made another start! Had I known that it was my last trip to the track, I would have busted his teeth when he look forward after hanging the lines up! These guys have ego and attitudes because when they drive stupid and don't apologize, nobody speaks up!
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They really don’t want to drive qualifiers for free anymore. They are asking all tracks to bill the owners $50 for a qualifying drive to stop trainers from putting them in to qualify if they aren’t ready to go. This should be interesting.
This is wrong. I can understand if they don't want to qualify one that's not ready, but once upon a time you took a qualifying drive in hopes of getting the purse drive on the horse. Obviously there's not enough quality catch drivers. Supply and demand.
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Once we allow one track to do this, it will be impossible to stop. The Owners and Trainers must take a stance and hold together! It would be funny as hell if all the Drivers came to the track and there were ZERO horses to drive! ngc3 ngc3
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When you get hurt working at your job they pay you? When you go to work and the company makes no money you tell them "Don't worry about paying me?" If it's so damn easy go get your helmet and colors and step right up.
I don’t think that is a fair comparison. Although I think the idea of paying them for a qualifying drive isn’t right if they get the drive for purse money, they are risking their livelihood if they go down in a qualifying race. I don’t like the idea because I’m so used to drivers who just drive and shut up. These guys today aren’t half the drivers or horsemen of yesteryear.
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This is wrong. I can understand if they don't want to qualify one that's not ready, but once upon a time you took a qualifying drive in hopes of getting the purse drive on the horse. Obviously there's not enough quality catch drivers. Supply and demand.
Correct
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I don’t think that is a fair comparison. Although I think the idea of paying them for a qualifying drive isn’t right if they get the drive for purse money, they are risking their livelihood if they go down in a qualifying race. I don’t like the idea because I’m so used to drivers who just drive and shut up. These guys today aren’t half the drivers or horsemen of yesteryear.
Back in the day, drivers were horsemen. These punks that drive today are not.
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Exactly! I had one of the primadonas drive a horse into the fence after the mile because she was hot behind the gate! There were 3ft slide marks on the track he was going so fast. The horse was sore behind afterwards and it ended up being a torn suspensory! He had about 375k lifetime and was set to make 100k for the 3rd year in a row! Never made another start! Had I known that it was my last trip to the track, I would have busted his teeth when he look forward after hanging the lines up! These guys have ego and attitudes because when they drive stupid and don't apologize, nobody speaks up!
This story could use some names
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This story could use some names
Drivers charging today to Q a horse is obscene and offensive. I remember when drivers asked to Q a horse in the hopes they would retain the drive for real money. It is BS if true.
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Ya know Jigglin Jesus charged 10 bucks for each TT back in the day. His wife sat there with a note book and collected cash. I started giving drivers who Q'd for me 10 or 20 bucks. They didn't pick off my horses very often.
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They really don’t want to drive qualifiers for free anymore. They are asking all tracks to bill the owners $50 for a qualifying drive to stop trainers from putting them in to qualify if they aren’t ready to go. This should be interesting.
I’m m guessing you are talking about Hoosier. There and Illinois are the only places i know of where the drivers get paid for not getting a check in a race. On the east coast they only get paid if you do.
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always pay my drivers for qualifing dont be so cheap
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I’m m guessing you are talking about Hoosier. There and Illinois are the only places i know of where the drivers get paid for not getting a check in a race. On the east coast they only get paid if you do.
That’s the way it should be. Why should owners reward a driver for a bad drive? Stupidest rule they ever implemented. These drivers today all need to be bitch slapped.
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It’s not related to qualifiers, but at Running Aces, the driver gets $25 for finishing worse than 5th.
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Thats fine they can charge $50 per qua drive. Just negotiate drivers get 2.5% of purses won. They have zero overhead in maintaining the horse.
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Thats fine they can charge $50 per qua drive. Just negotiate drivers get 2.5% of purses won. They have zero overhead in maintaining the horse.
I like your idea but it would never work because the owners won’t stick together. Just like when a new juice trainer suddenly appears and the big money owners go running to them, the same is true for the drivers. As soon as one of the catch drivers gets hot the owners go running to them kissing ass to get them to drive their horses. The top catch drivers could charge 10-15% if they wanted and the owners would still pay it. The owners and drivers are the only ones making any money in the business. And if you’re not a top 25 catch driver you’re not making any money either.
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Ya know Jigglin Jesus charged 10 bucks for each TT back in the day. His wife sat there with a note book and collected cash. I started giving drivers who Q'd for me 10 or 20 bucks. They didn't pick off my horses very often.
It was $100
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trainers should qualify their own horses, save the fee
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Weight, anvil hands and lack of skill might make some horses miss - even as fast as they go now LOL
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T bred riders work horses in the morning hoping they can ride in a future race, these buggy people are nuts
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I’m m guessing you are talking about Hoosier. There and Illinois are the only places i know of where the drivers get paid for not getting a check in a race. On the east coast they only get paid if you do.
Wrong. Some tracks on east coast are now giving $20-25 per drive that doesn't get a check
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Which tracks??
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T bred riders work horses in the morning hoping they can ride in a future race, these buggy people are nuts
And they get paid for their time
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financially the top drivers do not need money from qualifiers
lets assume the top 10 all make $350 k -$500 k or more
all their qualifiers and travel expenses should come out of the 5%, they are deductible business expenses
i agree that for most qualifiers some of the b grade drivers could do them
the expense side of the business for owning race horses is getting out of control
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I don’t get all the ploppers who do not think a driver should get paid something for working. What profession do you know where someone goes to work and doesn’t get paid? Perhaps you want to train a horse I own for nothing but the 5% from the purses? Do employers first ask a potential employee how much do you make a year before deciding if this person should get paid or not? If trainers don’t want to pay a driver to qualify their horse then get your own butt in the sulky and do it yourself.
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I don’t get all the ploppers who do not think a driver should get paid something for working. What profession do you know where someone goes to work and doesn’t get paid? Perhaps you want to train a horse I own for nothing but the 5% from the purses? Do employers first ask a potential employee how much do you make a year before deciding if this person should get paid or not? If trainers don’t want to pay a driver to qualify their horse then get your own butt in the sulky and do it yourself.
I agree completely. I have always offed to pay the driver after a Q. The better one’s always say no just put me down for purse start. Some have picked off first start but didn’t come looking for that $20
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I don’t get all the ploppers who do not think a driver should get paid something for working. What profession do you know where someone goes to work and doesn’t get paid? Perhaps you want to train a horse I own for nothing but the 5% from the purses? Do employers first ask a potential employee how much do you make a year before deciding if this person should get paid or not? If trainers don’t want to pay a driver to qualify their horse then get your own butt in the sulky and do it yourself.
Should the trainer at least buy lunch for the ‘Q’ driver as a thank you??
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I don’t get all the ploppers who do not think a driver should get paid something for working. What profession do you know where someone goes to work and doesn’t get paid? Perhaps you want to train a horse I own for nothing but the 5% from the purses? Do employers first ask a potential employee how much do you make a year before deciding if this person should get paid or not? If trainers don’t want to pay a driver to qualify their horse then get your own butt in the sulky and do it yourself.
I REALLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOURE SAYING BUT AT WHAT POINT DO THEY STOP GOUGING THE OWNERS WITH EXTRA ADD-ONS? I MEAN ITS GETTING TO THE POINT THAT THE OWNERS CANNOT AFFORD TO JUST OWN A HORSE FOR THE HECK OF IT AND ENJOY TAKING THE FAMILY TO THE RACES FOR A NIGHT OUT. TODAY YOU EITHER HAVE TO BE FINACIALLY SECURE AND NOT GIVE A CARE, OR IF YOURE LIKE ME, I WORK AS AN ACCOUNTANT FOR A LARGE FIRM AND THEN MY WIFE DOES UBER TO HELP OUT WHEN SHE CAN. HOW IN THE HELL CAN WE OWN A RACE HORSE ANYMORE JUST FOR FUN WITH ALL THE THESE TRAINERS CHARGING FOR THIS AND THAT AND NOW THE DRIVER WANTS MORE THAN THEIR 5% FROM THE PURSES. HOW ABOUT A RULE THAT SAYS IF A DRIVER QUALIFYS YOUR HORSE HE IS AUTOMATICALLY LISTED THE FIRST START UNLESS HE CHOOSES OFF? JESUS THESE HORSEMAN GOTTA STOP WITH GOUGHING THE OWNERS AT EVERY CORNER.
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Wrong. Some tracks on east coast are now giving $20-25 per drive that doesn't get a check
Chicago tracks have done this for years!!
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Chicago tracks have done this for years!!
I KNOW AND ITS A BIG RIPOFF! YOU ACTUALLY REWARD A GUY WHO STIFFED YOUR HORSE OR STUCK IT YOUR ASS. HOW ABOUT THE "CATCH DRIVERS" WHO TELL THEIR FRIENDS TO CLAIM YOUR HORSE. A LOT OF THEM SHOULD HAVE THEIR HEADS BUSTED OPEN.
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I KNOW AND ITS A BIG RIPOFF! YOU ACTUALLY REWARD A GUY WHO STIFFED YOUR HORSE OR STUCK IT YOUR ASS. HOW ABOUT THE "CATCH DRIVERS" WHO TELL THEIR FRIENDS TO CLAIM YOUR HORSE. A LOT OF THEM SHOULD HAVE THEIR HEADS BUSTED OPEN.
Or you pay a driver for his time because you don’t know how to classify your horse. It is very easy to get a drivers license. Some of y’all should go for it Then ask why a driver should be payed for his time. You say your an accountant are you going to do my taxes for free because I don’t get a refund??
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Or you pay a driver for his time because you don’t know how to classify your horse. It is very easy to get a drivers license. Some of y’all should go for it Then ask why a driver should be payed for his time. You say your an accountant are you going to do my taxes for free because I don’t get a refund??
ABSOLUTELY NOT BUT I WILL NOT GOUGE YOU EITHER. I WILL CHARGE YOU A FEE AND THATS IT. IF I HAVE TO APPEAR AT THE LOCAL IRS OFFICE OR CALL THEM ON YOUR BEHALF, YOUVE ALREADY PAID MY FEE SO WERE GOOD. LIKE I SAID ALL THAT IS HAPPENNING IS THE BUSINESS KEEPS GOING IN THE TOILET EVERY DAY WORSE AND WORSE WITH NONSENSE LIKE THIS. I DONT WANT ANYONE TO WORK FOR FREE BUT DONT GOUGE ME EVERY CHANCE YOU GET EITHER!!! I MEAN WHY NOT JUST RAISE YOUR DRIVER FEE ACROSS THE BOARD TO 6% IF YOU FEEL LIKE THAT. AND THE ANSWER ISNT ALWAYS GO YOUR YOUR OWN LICENSE AND DRIVE YOURSELF! IF YOU DONT LIKE IT BLAH BLAH BLAH. I CHOOSE MY PROFESSION AND THEY DID AS WELL. SO ITS NOT AN OPTION FOR ME TO CHANGE MY CAREER AT 51 YEARS OLD TO GO AND GET A LICENSE. JUST DONT DRIVE MY HORSE IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY. THERE ARE PLENTY OF DRIVERS AROUND AND IF YOU HAVE A GOOD HORSE, WATCH HOW THEY COME RUNNING.
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ABSOLUTELY NOT BUT I WILL NOT GOUGE YOU EITHER. I WILL CHARGE YOU A FEE AND THATS IT. IF I HAVE TO APPEAR AT THE LOCAL IRS OFFICE OR CALL THEM ON YOUR BEHALF, YOUVE ALREADY PAID MY FEE SO WERE GOOD. LIKE I SAID ALL THAT IS HAPPENNING IS THE BUSINESS KEEPS GOING IN THE TOILET EVERY DAY WORSE AND WORSE WITH NONSENSE LIKE THIS. I DONT WANT ANYONE TO WORK FOR FREE BUT DONT GOUGE ME EVERY CHANCE YOU GET EITHER!!! I MEAN WHY NOT JUST RAISE YOUR DRIVER FEE ACROSS THE BOARD TO 6% IF YOU FEEL LIKE THAT. AND THE ANSWER ISNT ALWAYS GO YOUR YOUR OWN LICENSE AND DRIVE YOURSELF! IF YOU DONT LIKE IT BLAH BLAH BLAH. I CHOOSE MY PROFESSION AND THEY DID AS WELL. SO ITS NOT AN OPTION FOR ME TO CHANGE MY CAREER AT 51 YEARS OLD TO GO AND GET A LICENSE. JUST DONT DRIVE MY HORSE IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY. THERE ARE PLENTY OF DRIVERS AROUND AND IF YOU HAVE A GOOD HORSE, WATCH HOW THEY COME RUNNING.
I agree so use one of the guys trying to get a license or some drives to Q your horse there are many that will do it for free.
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Same for trainers if you think you are getting gouged there are plenty that will do it for less. You probably will suffer on the results but if you can’t afford Logan’s you can always get a meal at McDonald’s
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i think your missing the point
as i stated prior they are getting paid just do the math overall and dont itemize everything
and the industry caters to the top guys , making sure stakes races are co ordinated so they can race in them all
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financially the top drivers do not need money from qualifiers
lets assume the top 10 all make $350 k -$500 k or more
all their qualifiers and travel expenses should come out of the 5%, they are deductible business expenses
i agree that for most qualifiers some of the b grade drivers could do them
the expense side of the business for owning race horses is getting out of control
So if you don’t need the money are you going to go to work for free. Only reason I show up on my day off is for time and a half.
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I don’t get all the ploppers who do not think a driver should get paid something for working. What profession do you know where someone goes to work and doesn’t get paid?
Minor League baseball players play for a pittance. They are certain of their talent and want to keep working on their trade until they can make the MLB- and, earn the big $$$. Probationary drivers are learning, same as minor leaguers. They drive the Q to get experience AND to develop relationships w top trainers and owners. Then - they eventually hit the big time.
So, no- it's not like typical jobs. but, if you can advance it pays way better than a typical job.
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I read all the replies to my post. Nothing has changed my mind. Everyone needs to get paid for doing their jobs. If a driver doesn’t take the fee then it is his decision and no one else. I know there are times that trainers are looking for more than just beating the Q time. That’s when they might need a pro driving. But other than that why doesn’t the trainer just hop in the sulky and save the fee? To me this entire conversation is a non-starter. As far as the owners most of us have been thrilled over the past 20 years to break even and have some fun. Making any real money is a pipe dream for the little guys. The Q fee is a drop in the bucket versus all the vet, transportation and training bills. This small fee would not be a deterrent if you are crazy enough to own a horse today.
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I like your idea but it would never work because the owners won’t stick together. Just like when a new juice trainer suddenly appears and the big money owners go running to them, the same is true for the drivers. As soon as one of the catch drivers gets hot the owners go running to them kissing ass to get them to drive their horses. The top catch drivers could charge 10-15% if they wanted and the owners would still pay it. The owners and drivers are the only ones making any money in the business. And if you’re not a top 25 catch driver you’re not making any money either.
And when the driver is supplying the big juice trainer even better
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And when the driver is supplying the big juice trainer even better
Oh yes sir I agree with you ala Bartlett and Timmy t supplying the trainers with the go go juice.