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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Open bridle on September 23, 2023, 11:32:17 AM
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I cut my teeth in harness racing back in the early 70's at Northfield and my horses have trained at both Northfield and Delaware County fairgrounds both 1/2 mile tracks. I use to think the 1/2 mile track used to be the most exciting and best place to race. After being at the Jug this year I left with feeling of not being satisfied with the winner. I have always thought the best horse in the field deserves to win the big races and should be able to overcome bad trips most the time. IMO It's My Show was not the best horse at the Jug this year. Sure there was a speed duel at the front and that cost the best horse IMO the race. Now if that happen on a mile track would Cannibal have ducked and waited for the stretch. I'm beginning to lean toward the bigger tracks that gives the best horse a better chance to win and not taking them out of the race. Would like others opinions.
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I cut my teeth in harness racing back in the early 70's at Northfield and my horses have trained at both Northfield and Delaware County fairgrounds both 1/2 mile tracks. I use to think the 1/2 mile track used to be the most exciting and best place to race. After being at the Jug this year I left with feeling of not being satisfied with the winner. I have always thought the best horse in the field deserves to win the big races and should be able to overcome bad trips most the time. IMO It's My Show was not the best horse at the Jug this year. Sure there was a speed duel at the front and that cost the best horse IMO the race. Now if that happen on a mile track would Cannibal have ducked and waited for the stretch. I'm beginning to lean toward the bigger tracks that gives the best horse a better chance to win and not taking them out of the race. Would like others opinions.
If i open my mouth with a word of agreement or support I will be cut to shreds/ Trashcano and her training suit pouch have many friends on here.
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This is why the Grand Circuit is a traveling roadshow! If the size of the track was uniform, the same horses would excell in every race. Fans are drawn to the races for different reasons. Like they say.."Variety is the spice of life " and "Different Strokes for Different Folks!"
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I cut my teeth in harness racing back in the early 70's at Northfield and my horses have trained at both Northfield and Delaware County fairgrounds both 1/2 mile tracks. I use to think the 1/2 mile track used to be the most exciting and best place to race. After being at the Jug this year I left with feeling of not being satisfied with the winner. I have always thought the best horse in the field deserves to win the big races and should be able to overcome bad trips most the time. IMO It's My Show was not the best horse at the Jug this year. Sure there was a speed duel at the front and that cost the best horse IMO the race. Now if that happen on a mile track would Cannibal have ducked and waited for the stretch. I'm beginning to lean toward the bigger tracks that gives the best horse a better chance to win and not taking them out of the race. Would like others opinions.
The best/fastest horse doesn't always win on a half mile track. An inside post position obviously has more value on a half than a mile track. Driver's knowledge of their horse, reading the race as it happens, and knowing the ability of the other drivers and horses plays an important role. Winning consistently with a variety of horses on a half mile track is a true testament of a driver's ability.
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well if the best horse was supposed to win all the time i assume that would be the favorite all the time and who wants that especially from a gambling perspective
some horses are better on a 1/2 or 5/8 , why should the have to race all on mile tracks
things are good the way they are, different size tracks makes things interesting, the jug is unique and special
now to be clear i am fine with major races na cup, meadowlands pace and breeders crown all on big tracks to ensure everyone has a fair shot
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well if the best horse was supposed to win all the time i assume that would be the favorite all the time and who wants that especially from a gambling perspective
some horses are better on a 1/2 or 5/8 , why should the have to race all on mile tracks
things are good the way they are, different size tracks makes things interesting, the jug is unique and special
now to be clear i am fine with major races na cup, meadowlands pace and breeders crown all on big tracks to ensure everyone has a fair shot
perfectly stated
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well if the best horse was supposed to win all the time i assume that would be the favorite all the time and who wants that especially from a gambling perspective
some horses are better on a 1/2 or 5/8 , why should the have to race all on mile tracks
things are good the way they are, different size tracks makes things interesting, the jug is unique and special
now to be clear i am fine with major races na cup, meadowlands pace and breeders crown all on big tracks to ensure everyone has a fair shot
I agree there should various size tracks and I always enjoy the Jug being so close to home. And I have nothing against Its My Show connections either. I think he a great horse but wasn't in the best form coming into the race. But in most cases regardless of how the race unfolds the best horse has won the Jug. That's why they have heats format to try and ensure that. I think back at Life Sign and Wiggle it Jiggle it races both being park and still the best horse won. BTW I was around when Niatross was the favorite every race he won, but had more excitement surrounding him than anything nowadays except maybe SBSW.
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If i open my mouth with a word of agreement or support I will be cut to shreds/ Trashcano and her training suit pouch have many friends on here.
Ole Lordy, can I please get an Amen!
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I agree there should various size tracks and I always enjoy the Jug being so close to home. And I have nothing against Its My Show connections either. I think he a great horse but wasn't in the best form coming into the race. But in most cases regardless of how the race unfolds the best horse has won the Jug. That's why they have heats format to try and ensure that. I think back at Life Sign and Wiggle it Jiggle it races both being park and still the best horse won. BTW I was around when Niatross was the favorite every race he won, but had more excitement surrounding him than anything nowadays except maybe SBSW.
Look at who drove Niatross and SBSW! 1 hall of famer because of training/driving Niatross and a few other good horses? How good of a driver did SBSW have??
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If i open my mouth with a word of agreement or support I will be cut to shreds/ Trashcano and her training suit pouch have many friends on here.
You seem to be able to hold your own here. Your opinions are solid. Hang on.
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Ty for the support tmbz1
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Glad to see Linda win. I've not met her but one thing i've always noticed about her stable is that she knows when to stop with a 2 year old and i give her credit for that. As for Delaware, it's a tough track for some horses. It's unlike most 1/2 mile tracks and it seems most would prefer to gun to the front because it's a half. I noticed early in the week that the front was not holding up well.
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I cut my teeth in harness racing back in the early 70's at Northfield and my horses have trained at both Northfield and Delaware County fairgrounds both 1/2 mile tracks. I use to think the 1/2 mile track used to be the most exciting and best place to race. After being at the Jug this year I left with feeling of not being satisfied with the winner. I have always thought the best horse in the field deserves to win the big races and should be able to overcome bad trips most the time. IMO It's My Show was not the best horse at the Jug this year. Sure there was a speed duel at the front and that cost the best horse IMO the race. Now if that happen on a mile track would Cannibal have ducked and waited for the stretch. I'm beginning to lean toward the bigger tracks that gives the best horse a better chance to win and not taking them out of the race. Would like others opinions.
So you’re just assuming that Timmy’s colt left alone on the lead to dictate the number s at his lesure , like Cannibal did in the first heat would have just folded up when pressed.
Fugs ,
Not cutting you to shreds, but both times once at 2 & @ 3 Confederate was truly tested and had to work the length of the stretch he came up short. You proclaimed him a GOAT but he has a couple of big dances to get through before we put him up there with that group.
Open B watch the metro last night, big track and it looked like the best horse went back to the paddock
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So you’re just assuming that Timmy’s colt left alone on the lead to dictate the number s at his lesure , like Cannibal did in the first heat would have just folded up when pressed.
Fugs ,
Not cutting you to shreds, but both times once at 2 & @ 3 Confederate was truly tested and had to work the length of the stretch he came up short. You proclaimed him a GOAT but he has a couple of big dances to get through before we put him up there with that group.
Open B watch the metro last night, big track and it looked like the best horse went back to the paddock
Ok since you have toned down the animosity, ty., I will respond. As you know, the quote you just re posted did not come from me. i don't even agree with most of.
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I never proclaimed Confederate the greatest of all time I DID put him in a top 5 along with the greatest 3 year olds I ever saw - Niatross, Nihilator, SBSW, Cams Card, Matts Scooter. I did so because of what I saw Confederate do and as a horseman what I felt he could do, his head , neck, shoulder proportions, something I firmly believe in, THE BEST LOOKING 3 year old pacer I have ever seen is Matts Scooter and because i knew is groom Hughey, I actually got to put my hands on him physically - a life time thrill, Confederate reminds me a great deal of Matts. I am in awe of Confederate's ability to switch gears, repeatedly in the stretch, he can become airborne on a dime. he is a colt "that dont like to lose" When he put down the all time 3 year old record, I agree it was an elaborate TT, but what impressed me is that he is a horse from a different era having to race in a world, a sport, that is dominated by speed. it bothers me the way they manage young horses these days, but the business has moved past me. Would loved to have seen him race 25 times, not 12 against everyone, everywhere especially the Jug. It offends me that he wasn't in it! Imagine him an older FFA horse, especially the way he takes care of himself....If only, right buddy?
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I think he may be ok if spotted properly, as far as which races he would go in @ 4. But that’s a tall order for a young 4 yr. I didn’t think he has 18 lifetime goes. Plus the deeper the aged horse get into the year the better they get. Case in point Tattoo Artist, who I said the day before on Plop that he would win the CPD.
Bythemis is go example of being a young 4 yr and having a hard time holding his top form all year
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Personally I have always felt there is a major "hole" in Bythemissal that we are not aware of. That last quarter in a Q was silly and meaningless.
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So you’re just assuming that Timmy’s colt left alone on the lead to dictate the number s at his lesure , like Cannibal did in the first heat would have just folded up when pressed.
Fugs ,
Not cutting you to shreds, but both times once at 2 & @ 3 Confederate was truly tested and had to work the length of the stretch he came up short. You proclaimed him a GOAT but he has a couple of big dances to get through before we put him up there with that group.
Open B watch the metro last night, big track and it looked like the best horse went back to the paddock
All I'm saying is Cannibal was in the best form going into the JUG. Just my opinion and hopefully all will meet again at the Red Mile.
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I felt that only 1 of 3 horses could possibly win the Jug final - Cannibal, Seven Colors or It's My Show. unFortunately, I was right. just not the way I wanted to be. let's move to the future and line em up again a time or 2!
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And all three of those would have entered without the additional purse. $$ Had no effect on field quality..State Tax dollars pissed away.
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How was it state tax dollars
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Not going to dig around and bring up articles..Just know I read one where Jug representative
were thanking the state for their contributions in order to get to $1m.
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If the purses of most stake races of over $500,000 (probably less) were cut in half the same horses would be entered.
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I can believe that...so exactly what good did the increase do? Sure didn't draw a bigger crowd..'Tons' of empty seats from the view of the computer screen.
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Not going to dig around and bring up articles..Just know I read one where Jug representative were thanking the state for their contributions in order to get to $1m.
The money came from the slot money the 4 standardbred tracks get & from the breeders fund. The state didn’t take any tax payers money.
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The money came from the slot money the 4 standardbred tracks get & from the breeders fund. The state didn’t take any tax payers money.
I heard the 1MM purse was only guaranteed for this year and not for next year as of now. I think there were some additional sponsors that help make up the purse also.
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I can believe that...so exactly what good did the increase do? Sure didn't draw a bigger crowd..'Tons' of empty seats from the view of the computer screen.
I was there and estimate the crowd in the 30-35k range.
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Not sure how to attach links here but just read an article from Columbus Dispatch covering the running of the race..Jay Wolf is quoted as saying the money came from OHHA, Race sponsors, and the state. Wherever it came from, it was wasted.
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I was there and estimate the crowd in the 30-35k range.
Heard someone my Racing Network feed say maybe 40k.
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Heard someone my Racing Network feed say maybe 40k.
They also announced 40k at the Jug. Maybe including the fair area they might be close. Nothing like the 80's & 90's when the outside rim was so packed you could hardly walk around the track. Also, they eliminated a extra set of large bleachers that were along side the grandstand. Now if you include the internet you might be approaching the 50k they use to have.
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All I'm saying is Cannibal was in the best form going into the JUG. Just my opinion and hopefully all will meet again at the Red Mile.
I think most of them were in top form.
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I think most of them were in top form.
They were, but Cannibal had won 4 of last 5 including including beating Seven Colors twice and IMS once.
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The thing is 1/2 half track racing in a race that’s a one shot deal, no do overs . The driver comes in to play as well. I said it before, Nancy and Yannick were banking on Timmy just cutting the Diamond Creek horse loose. Timmy wanted to win the Jug and wasn’t the least bit concerned about driving against a Diamond Creek horse. That’s what I want from a top driver when they’re in that situation, no allegiance to stables, like we seem from Yannick from time to time when he’s driving against a Burke horse. Campbell was put in the same situation with Life Sign, he didn’t gun at Riyadh , he stayed composed and came up with B plan.
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Maybe it’s time for a real triple crown on 3 different sized tracks— 1/2, 5/8, and either 7/8 Mike or 1 mile track. Maybe do different distances like the thoroughbred triple crown while we’re at it too.
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Since we are really dreaming, cause nobody pays any attention to Triple crown anyhow [is there any horse
that even raced in all three?], Why not Grand slam?..NAC 7/8 M[1] Pace Adios [5/8] Jug 1/2 Precious Bunny won all four. Though at the time NAC was at Greenwood[5/8]
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I like the idea but none of the 5/8ths are worthy. I think it should be the North American Cup, Meadowlands Pace, Little Brown Jug. Anyone winning the first two would have to complete the triple crown racing heats on a half!
Meadowlands pace - 1 mile, put the Cane at Chester 5/8ths, then the Jug - half mile. There's your Triple Crown.
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Meadowlands pace - 1 mile, put the Cane at Chester 5/8ths, then the Jug - half mile. There's your Triple Crown.
Chester?? Too close to the jail and horrible track surface!
Pocono did it in the past.
Try Plainridge if you want a new venue!!
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Chester?? Too close to the jail and horrible track surface!
Pocono did it in the past.
Try Plainridge if you want a new venue!!
[/quote Didn't know that about Chester. I heard Plainridge surface can get crappy, especially when it's wet Totally forgot about Pocono. Brain fart.
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Chester?? Too close to the jail and horrible track surface!
Pocono did it in the past.
Try Plainridge if you want a new venue!!
[/quote Didn't know that about Chester. I heard Plainridge surface can get crappy, especially when it's wet Totally forgot about Pocono. Brain fart.
I was at plainridge yesterday and today. The track condition was listed yesterday as ‘wet fast’. A trainer told me the surface was fine. Lightning fast track today. Read the charts. Weather was cool and breezy today.
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Ok, then we go with Plainridge.