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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: LUCPARK on September 21, 2023, 09:20:05 AM
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Many breeders have now also become owners of race horses
Is that fair to the public
They keep their best for themselves
Two farms in Kentucky
Are famous for this
Wood you buy from them ?
Knowing your getting fvked and have odds more against you
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One wouldn't be DC owned by AB would it???
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One wouldn't be DC owned by AB would it???
Diamonds are forever for sure.
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As far as major breeders go I stick with Hanover. No RNAs and no deals beforehand. You do have to bid against the guys that sold them a mare for yearling credit but I would rather do that than bid against the breeders that end up owning 1/2 after the hammer drops
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Diamond creek sells bottom grade
the one they sold me only had one nut and they refused to do anything about it after the fact
lindy keeps their best too
and blue chips bids up their top ones and buys back if needed
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They own the mares they can keep the foals or sell them what is the problem buy your own dam mares if it so easy.
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There are many different farms that sell babies. I would rather see a breeder with a successful baby program than get Nickle and dimed every time I do business with them. Who's to say that the great 2yr old they kept would have excelled in a different trainers program?
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They own the mares they can keep the foals or sell them what is the problem buy your own dam mares if it so easy.
It presents a bad image to the public when you keep your own horses and sell others. It leads to the impression your keeping the cream of the crop and selling off the problem children.
As for bidding up your own there are three farms that do it that I know of. Diamond Creek protects there's as well as Blue Chip. By far the worst is Spring Haven and Senena. She will run you up like no other and when she can't get you for anymore or she get stuck she will retract the bid and you will miraculously be the winning bidder.
The ultimate cheap award has to go to Diamond Creek and Bowden. It's very well known that one of his employees who was (non vet) got caught drawing blood and what ever else at Red Mile two weeks ago. Racing commission caught an unlicensed person with needle taking blood from numerous horses. Probably never hear anything about this one. Had it been anyone else, the horses would be scratched and the owner / trainer severely punished.
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It presents a bad image to the public when you keep your own horses and sell others. It leads to the impression your keeping the cream of the crop and selling off the problem children.
As for bidding up your own there are three farms that do it that I know of. Diamond Creek protects there's as well as Blue Chip. By far the worst is Spring Haven and Senena. She will run you up like no other and when she can't get you for anymore or she get stuck she will retract the bid and you will miraculously be the winning bidder.
The ultimate cheap award has to go to Diamond Creek and Bowden. It's very well known that one of his employees who was (non vet) got caught drawing blood and what ever else at Red Mile two weeks ago. Racing commission caught an unlicensed person with needle taking blood from numerous horses. Probably never hear anything about this one. Had it been anyone else, the horses would be scratched and the owner / trainer severely punished.
Marcus was just doing his job to keep Adam informed
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He's licensed, ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3. Look they xray everything, scope everything. You're racing against the best the farm has to offer. He's NOT just keeping fillys to keep a breeding line or small. He's keeping the best. He sells alot of great bred and alot turn into great racehorses. How many does the farm have in training?
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He's licensed, ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3. Look they xray everything, scope everything. You're racing against the best the farm has to offer. He's NOT just keeping fillys to keep a breeding line or small. He's keeping the best. He sells alot of great bred and alot turn into great racehorses. How many does the farm have in training?
This seems to be the new business plan for DC. From what I heard they kept what they felt was their best 5 pacing colts from this crop.
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Diamonds are forever for sure.
IMHO ITS HIS COMPANY
BUT AS A CUSTOMER I NEVER BUY A PEANUT OFF OF HIM KNOWING
HES SORTING OUT THE BEST AS KEEPERS
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He's licensed, ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3. Look they xray everything, scope everything. You're racing against the best the farm has to offer. He's NOT just keeping fillys to keep a breeding line or small. He's keeping the best. He sells alot of great bred and alot turn into great racehorses. How many does the farm have in training?
I'd say less than 20 across all divisions. Including the aged horses.
They keep 3-5 of the best and sell the rest. They look like geniuses this year but they've been crushed by the strategy. There's been a couple of quarter of a million dollar babies that never made a cent.
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Diamond Creek is notorious and infamous for this. Will never buy another horse from them because of this.
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Diamond Creek is notorious and infamous for this. Will never buy another horse from them because of this.
Cause they keep yearlings that you couldn't have afforded anyways? If they are keeping them, the babies would sell for 200k+ at the sale.
I have seen them buy back cheap ones and sell them later privately, mostly on ones that under sell badly. But that doesnt happen often at all.
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The way the Breeders awards set up in PA Hanover never had to bid up or buy back because they made so many millions in Breeders awards each year. When you're raking in over 20mln in that regard helps keep the farm flowing and in investing in mares. Agree on Blue Chip.
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Breeders awards were not a factor till Recently.
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I’m surprised nobody has mentioned Winbak. They buy back so many they need 3-4 stable names to race them under.
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Many breeders have now also become owners of race horses
Is that fair to the public
They keep their best for themselves
Two farms in Kentucky
Are famous for this
Wood you buy from them ?
Knowing your getting fvked and have odds more against you
If you don't like it breed your own. You always stick up for the big barns. tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
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Breeders awards were not a factor till Recently.
Not sure what your definition is of recently as the PA breeders program has been in place since 2004. That's coming up on 20 years and in viability of horse racing is a long time and not "recent". Hanover year in and year leads that pack of reaping in many millions. It may not be 20mln a year especially since the % has dropped since its on start to current years. If Hanover isn't one WinBak is close. Either way those millions go a long way in a successful breeding operation even when. U have to sell some yearlings at a loss
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I purchased a colt from Hanover years ago, 15,000. Got him home and everything normal till we hooked him. whizzing couldn't breath, didn't eat, feed in water pail. Scoped him, he had no epiglotus, paper thin. Took him to Patty Hogan, she confirmed that the horse would never race, be sick all the time and die early. I called Hanover, Murray told me I had to talk to Bridget she told me I had to talk to Jimmy. Well long story short. They had to know if they towed or ponyed him. They tried to give me credit, no thanks. Oh, and I could keep him, no thanks. I finally got a refund. When I took him back to the fairgrounds, they had a packed house. I asked the guy, he said some day he'd come and they'd all be gone.
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If you don't like it breed your own. You always stick up for the big barns. tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
IM ACTUALLY NOT ,,IF U COMPREHENED MY POST
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It presents a bad image to the public when you keep your own horses and sell others. It leads to the impression your keeping the cream of the crop and selling off the problem children.
As for bidding up your own there are three farms that do it that I know of. Diamond Creek protects there's as well as Blue Chip. By far the worst is Spring Haven and Senena. She will run you up like no other and when she can't get you for anymore or she get stuck she will retract the bid and you will miraculously be the winning bidder.
When they say the bidder was waving or some other excuse for getting caught pushing, you should also back out and start way below where you last bid.
You can go back to the barn where WinBack and buy most any they bid in.
I’ve found the worst for pushing is Allamerica. I won’t even look at their offerings.
An auction is where the consignor has ONE bid or an upset price. All the catalogs now have a disclaimer that allows the consignor to bid. These are actually offerings and not auctions.
The ultimate cheap award has to go to Diamond Creek and Bowden. It's very well known that one of his employees who was (non vet) got caught drawing blood and what ever else at Red Mile two weeks ago. Racing commission caught an unlicensed person with needle taking blood from numerous horses. Probably never hear anything about this one. Had it been anyone else, the horses would be scratched and the owner / trainer severely punished.
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It just adds to the fact the odds are stacked against the little guy of buying a yearling and actually making money. Keep the best and sell the rest. Between the big stables and and crooked breeders the little guy is being squeeze out of harness racing.
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It just adds to the fact the odds are stacked against the little guy of buying a yearling and actually making money. Keep the best and sell the rest. Between the big stables and and crooked breeders the little guy is being squeeze out of harness racing.
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