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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: jupiter on September 03, 2023, 10:09:39 AM
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Greenshoe's sure looked impressive at the PASS finals. He got great mares, and shut out. He'll get another shot then, they should be 1/2 price, another flop and Hanover will be parting ways with him, Drop the stud feem They sure haven't rocked the world like predicted.
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On the bright side he does have almost 75% starters -- not an easy accomplishment for a first-year trotting sire -- but no exceptional standout so far. Maybe they're just late bloomers.
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cant argue that greenshoe 's not looking good so far
however i think there was only 1 in the colt final and 1 in the filly final so not much to go on there
i dont think %starters is relevant today
% of winners
avg earning per starter/winner is a better measure
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This is the current PA sires standings so to speak
Bar Hopping 62 foals 21 winners $635,000 Best performers Sierra Girl, Executive Game
Cantab Hall 83 26 $830,000 Best performer TCI $551,000
Father Patrick 100 43 $1,200000 Security Protected, Slip Sliding Away, Paulina Hanover
Greenshoe 101 42 $775,000 Send It In Hanover, Greenspan both geldings at $100,000 each
International Moni 102 31 $420,000 International Law gelding 154 $45,000
As you can see Father Patrick by far has the best performers, Greenshoe has about as many winners but they don't seem to have the class of the Father Patricks as he has 11 starters that have won over $45,000 so far and Greenshoe only has 3.
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Greenshoe was never a real horse. He was held together by Sears in almost all his starts and raced against no one. He will be standing in Indiana before long with the rest of the has been's.
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On the bright side he does have almost 75% starters -- not an easy accomplishment for a first-year trotting sire -- but no exceptional standout so far. Maybe they're just late bloomers.
Why would it be harder for a first year stallion, makes no sense? He got some of the best mares in the world, and supported by the greatest name in harness racing!
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Why would it be harder for a first year stallion, makes no sense? He got some of the best mares in the world, and supported by the greatest name in harness racing!
tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
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Why would it be harder for a first year stallion, makes no sense? He got some of the best mares in the world, and supported by the greatest name in harness racing!
Didn't say it was harder for a first year stallion. Most first year trotting stallions don't reach 75% starters by the end of the year. Not much worse than buying a yearling and not making it to the races as a 2 yr. old.
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On the bright side he does have almost 75% starters -- not an easy accomplishment for a first-year trotting sire -- but no exceptional standout so far. Maybe they're just late bloomers.
''NOT AN EASY ACCOMPLISHMENT FOR A FIRST YEAR TROTTING SIRE'' is what you said. Greenshoe bred a full book of the best broodmares in the game. Greenshoes genetics were at the top of his game, being a young stallion. Greenshoe stands at the greatest name in harness racing. Greenshoes first crop were trained by the best trainers. DUDE IT DOESN'T GET ANY EASIER!!!!!
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they probably won't be fighting over his offspring this year as they were last year
Vic Zelenskyy sold for $550,000, was last seen on a milk carton in a refrigerator saying "have you seen this horse?
Greenspring, $500,000 yearling, another trotter whose picture is on a milk carton
Lammtarra, $500,000 yearling, this one has been tearing it up racing, has already earned $7,150 in 4 starts and in his last 3 starts hasn't broken 1.56.3 on that lightning fast Red Mile surface
how fast can you say Trixton?
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''NOT AN EASY ACCOMPLISHMENT FOR A FIRST YEAR TROTTING SIRE'' is what you said. Greenshoe bred a full book of the best broodmares in the game. Greenshoes genetics were at the top of his game, being a young stallion. Greenshoe stands at the greatest name in harness racing. Greenshoes first crop were trained by the best trainers. DUDE IT DOESN'T GET ANY EASIER!!!!!
Most first year trotting stallions don't reach 75% starters. Recent example another Hanover stallion: International Moni. Is he underperforming so far? Absolutely. But the year's not over yet. Sorry if you're part of the Greenshoe syndicate or bought a Greenshoe yearling that hasn't hit the track.
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Expectations were so high for Greeshoe. No way he could have lived up to the hype. Nonetheless, I would say he is a little disappointing.
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Most first year trotting stallions don't reach 75% starters. Recent example another Hanover stallion: International Moni. Is he underperforming so far? Absolutely. But the year's not over yet. Sorry if you're part of the Greenshoe syndicate or bought a Greenshoe yearling that hasn't hit the track.
I don't own any part of him or his foals, I am just pointing out your ignorance! Greenshoe was supposed to be the second coming of Christ, hence his $25,000. stud fee. To compare him to Walner, Muscle Hill, or Deweycheatumnhowe would be understandable. International Moni has a stud fee off $8,000. dipshit!
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Boys when it’s said and done,,,,,The best 2yr old trottter is a Tactical Landing by the name of Karl,,,he is in Walners league
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I don't own any part of him or his foals, I am just pointing out your ignorance! Greenshoe was supposed to be the second coming of Christ, hence his $25,000. stud fee. To compare him to Walner, Muscle Hill, or Deweycheatumnhowe would be understandable. International Moni has a stud fee off $8,000. dipshit!
You sure sound like you own a share of Greenshoe or maybe still hurting from that Dewey yearling?
All I said was most first year trotting sires don't hit 75% starters -- it's a fact. Walner's first year was 84% by year's end. Is Greenshoe underperforming? Ask anyone -- yes -- absolutely. But there's still time to redeem himself. I mentioned IM because he's also gifted Hanover mares. No need for name calling.
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Weren’t the Greenshoes hard to handle in early going.
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Boys when it’s said and done,,,,,The best 2yr old trottter is a Tactical Landing by the name of Karl,,,he is in Walners league
Very true.
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Weren’t the Greenshoes hard to handle in early going.
He was a bit "fractious".. kind of like Pine Chip. I personally like the confirmation of the Six Packs better, if we are talking about young sires for trotters; however Muscle Hill, Walner and Tactical Landing seem to be the current "cream of the crop".
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Boys when it’s said and done,,,,,The best 2yr old trottter is a Tactical Landing by the name of Karl,,,he is in Walners league
I've watched a few Tactical Landing's at Red Mile, nice to see trotters that can - Trot - without hobbles.
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If they can't trot the Red Mile without hopples, sad. That place is the nicest place to race young trotters. Very interesting to see what they bring at the Lexington sale. There are going to be a bunch of deals to try to keep the average up. It's nice to see 75% made it, but how many paid for themselves? How many times has the next "super sire" wound up a dud? Start naming them.
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Weren’t the Greenshoes hard to handle in early going.
And slow developing gait, etc. Apparently, everyone forgets Greenshoe barely raced at two and didn't attain his dominance until his three-year-old career, unlike the outstanding two-year-old Walner.
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If they can't trot the Red Mile without hopples, sad. That place is the nicest place to race young trotters. Very interesting to see what they bring at the Lexington sale. There are going to be a bunch of deals to try to keep the average up. It's nice to see 75% made it, but how many paid for themselves? How many times has the next "super sire" wound up a dud? Start naming them.
And yet when you watch the stake races, with the well bred horses and horsemen that train them --- sadly -- many wear trotting hobbles.
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I totally agree, top trotting stakes should be hopple free. All grand circuit races, tell the true trainers to the ones that take the easy way.
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Greenshoe was a rough gaited trotter that looked like he was ready to go offstride at any moment. These stud fees are absurd in harness racing.
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Anybody just see Emoji Hanover whiz by unasked a few minutes ago in the Champlain? Greenshoe filly racing clean with little equipment and strongly related to Drawn Impression on the maternal side who already has shown greatness. (anybody know why she was scratched in the first division?)
Anyway this looks like she could be the best Greenshoe so far.
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The handful of them that I saw were gigantic! I believe that the late bloomers theory may be correct!
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Greenshoe was never a real horse. He was held together by Sears in almost all his starts and raced against no one. He will be standing in Indiana before long with the rest of the has been's.
Maybe even in the great Illinois program... ngc3
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Anybody just see Emoji Hanover whiz by unasked a few minutes ago in the Champlain? Greenshoe filly racing clean with little equipment and strongly related to Drawn Impression on the maternal side who already has shown greatness. (anybody know why she was scratched in the first division?)
Drawn Impression was scratched "sick"...If she recovers in time for the Mohawk Million, Determination will have some decisions to make with their slot(s). However, I wouldn't mind having that kind of decision ;>>)
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They do have two slots. Emoji probably needs another couple races as that was only her 2nd last night. I don't follow Mohawk that much, do they have any colts that have been good? If not then these two fillies if healthy will probably go for the million. We all know that spending money is irrelevant to them with the owner one of the richest people in the world.
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I think A Mac (Stable.a a) has a few Greenshoes. Not sure of results.
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And slow developing gait, etc. Apparently, everyone forgets Greenshoe barely raced at two and didn't attain his dominance until his three-year-old career, unlike the outstanding two-year-old Walner.
. Like I said before Sears should get a medal for holding him together. He wanted to run every start!
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On page 2 --- there was talk about trotting hobbles.
Have there been any good recent Trotting Studs that wore trotting hobbles ?
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On page 2 --- there was talk about trotting hobbles.
Have there been any good recent Trotting Studs that wore trotting hobbles ?
That is a GREAT question and would require both a photographic mind (if one had watched all races) as well as a lot of internet research. I THINK DeweyChe... wore pants and while not a stud, C.R. Kay Suzie was the first "top" trotter to use them. While Ken Shand (Australian/South Jersey) introduced them, Carl Allen was one of the first to show them to good use with C. R. Kay Suzie who set or equalled the World Records on every sized track, and was Dan Patch award winner at 2,3, and 4. She just passed away in May, at the age of 31.
When I get a chance I will try and do some research.