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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: theokodjak26 on August 25, 2023, 07:31:49 PM

Title: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: theokodjak26 on August 25, 2023, 07:31:49 PM
So fellow Ploppers what is Gural going to do with Tony Alagna, 3rd biggest trainer earner in 2023, now that Alagna put an end to one of his appeals for drugging?

https://ustrottingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Rulings-08252023.pdf
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Generation XYZ on August 25, 2023, 07:36:06 PM
So fellow Ploppers what is Gural going to do with Tony Alagna, 3rd biggest trainer earner in 2023, now that Alagna put an end to one of his appeals for drugging?

https://ustrottingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Rulings-08252023.pdf

Basically simple he bides the 45 day suspension while he's racing Kentucky into the fall.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: theokodjak26 on August 25, 2023, 07:40:33 PM
XYZ are you saying that KY will not keep Alagna from racing for 45 days. What a sham that is if I understand you correctly.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Generation XYZ on August 25, 2023, 07:44:01 PM
XYZ are you saying that KY will not keep Alagna from racing for 45 days. What a sham that is if I understand you correctly.

Its a NJ ruling does not apply to KY. Its not a universal suspension only in state of NJ.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: theokodjak26 on August 25, 2023, 07:51:51 PM
KY buries Bob Baffert for 3 years but allows harness cheats to thrive in their state. I know this is old news but harness racing desperately needs a national commission with consistency of rules.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Harness racer on August 25, 2023, 08:24:48 PM
I wish they counted in all jurisdictions.  He'd just get a beard anyway.  tmbz1
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: SeattleSlew on August 25, 2023, 09:00:17 PM
So fellow Ploppers what is Gural going to do with Tony Alagna, 3rd biggest trainer earner in 2023, now that Alagna put an end to one of his appeals for drugging?

https://ustrottingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Rulings-08252023.pdf

Maybe I am misreading this, however it seems as though the appeal by Alagna was reinstated and that the actions are stayed?
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: theokodjak26 on August 25, 2023, 09:08:38 PM
Seattle I thought it said appeal continues but one he gave up on.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Harness Stats on August 25, 2023, 09:17:44 PM
If you read the very end it says that the withdrawal of the appeal was made in error and that the appeal and stay of the penalties continues. So no 45 days .... yet. 
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: White Rabbit on August 25, 2023, 11:13:14 PM
XXZ,
Your are erroneous incorrect. T.A. will absolutely be suspended in KY and every other state. It’s reciprocal suspension.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Mailbox Money on August 25, 2023, 11:47:48 PM
There's always an exception for his pals. Burke has a couple bad tests every year and he continues to race there. To me that qualifies as a habitual offender just like the Orange Peel pack even Yuki Smeltdaadt is getting on the scorecard now. Leopards can't change their spots.  11.wp 11.wp
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: White Rabbit on August 26, 2023, 12:37:33 AM
For the positive Burke has gotten he has not raced, his brother goes down as trainer. Happened earlier in the year this year or at the end of last year. There are no exceptions for it.
Just checked Mickey Jr was down in Dec 22, 33 starts 5 wins- 6 seconds
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Generation XYZ on August 26, 2023, 07:28:35 AM
Seattle I thought it said appeal continues but one he gave up on.

You are correct!
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Generation XYZ on August 26, 2023, 07:30:37 AM
XXZ,
Your are erroneous incorrect. T.A. will absolutely be suspended in KY and every other state. It’s reciprocal suspension.

No you are incorrect. Other states DO NOT have to reciprocate! He is racing in PA, KY and NY.  Better check your facts again my friend.   11.wp or for simplified reference look up USTA entries.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: White Rabbit on August 26, 2023, 07:56:40 AM
It’s never happened, once the suspension is final and he or whoever , is given days every state suspends the person. If what you’re asserting is correct then post one instant when this occurs.If a driver gets days from a commission they can’t driver in any other state or CD, same applies to trainers.
His days have not started yet.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Generation XYZ on August 26, 2023, 08:20:32 AM
It’s never happened, once the suspension is final and he or whoever , is given days every state suspends the person. If what you’re asserting is correct then post one instant when this occurs.If a driver gets days from a commission they can’t driver in any other state or CD, same applies to trainers.
His days have not started yet.

Bigger picture is the appeal was erroneously withdrawn, and was effectively entered on the docket. Therefore the NJRC must take NO action and uphold the appeal, as it was originally filed. But to counter your contention. States DO NOT have reciprocal agreements. They can elect to not accept entries, or imposed rulings based on other states rulings. But, this grey area is easily challenged in common pleas, and magisterial courts.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Generation XYZ on August 26, 2023, 08:23:34 AM
It’s never happened, once the suspension is final and he or whoever , is given days every state suspends the person. If what you’re asserting is correct then post one instant when this occurs.If a driver gets days from a commission they can’t driver in any other state or CD, same applies to trainers.
His days have not started yet.

You want an example??? Bob Baffert, Racing in NJ, MD, NY, CA...Suspended in KY... Case in point. A more highly reputed case. So yes if in fact the suspension was reinstated in NJ he could still be racing in KY.  YOUR WELCOME!
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Ohracing on August 26, 2023, 01:04:07 PM
You want an example??? Bob Baffert, Racing in NJ, MD, NY, CA...Suspended in KY... Case in point. A more highly reputed case. So yes if in fact the suspension was reinstated in NJ he could still be racing in KY.  YOUR WELCOME!

There is not one state that doesn't do reciprocating suspension.  Find one example.  The Baffert example isn't a state racing commission suspension it is a Churchill Downs suspension.  That is why he is racing in other states.  Canada also will have him suspended.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Mailbox Money on August 26, 2023, 02:57:47 PM
For the positive Burke has gotten he has not raced, his brother goes down as trainer. Happened earlier in the year this year or at the end of last year. There are no exceptions for it.
Just checked Mickey Jr was down in Dec 22, 33 starts 5 wins- 6 seconds
I'm aware of that.I  was eluding to the fact that he is a habitual offender due the # he has had thru the years. The size of the operation has no bearing on rules yet it is the first excuse his proponents offer! I don't have any ill will towards the Burkes but the favoritism makes me sick 🤮🤮🤮🤮
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: White Rabbit on August 26, 2023, 05:41:14 PM
Again incorrect. Once he starts his days from the Kentucky Racing Commission he will be suspended in ever jurisdiction. Churchhill is exercising their private property right.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: White Rabbit on August 26, 2023, 05:46:31 PM
Take a few and do a little research. He’s talking it to civil court.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: theokodjak26 on August 26, 2023, 07:11:58 PM
Wow I started this thread and only wanted to know if Gural would ban Alagna. I still don’t know but feel bad about all the hostilities. It again shows me how badly we need one set of rules that everyone can understand. And we need a clear and strong set of rules in regard to respecting racing jurisdictions honoring each other’s rulings. I mean we don’t even have a consistent pylon infraction rule from state to state. If all racing jurisdictions really want to kick the cheaters in their butts then stop talking and start acting to protect our sport, the fans and the honest trainers who are trying to make ends meet.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Generation XYZ on August 26, 2023, 09:24:03 PM
Wow I started this thread and only wanted to know if Gural would ban Alagna. I still don’t know but feel bad about all the hostilities. It again shows me how badly we need one set of rules that everyone can understand. And we need a clear and strong set of rules in regard to respecting racing jurisdictions honoring each other’s rulings. I mean we don’t even have a consistent pylon infraction rule from state to state. If all racing jurisdictions really want to kick the cheaters in their butts then stop talking and start acting to protect our sport, the fans and the honest trainers who are trying to make ends meet.

Agreed. White Rabbit thinks hes an arm chair lawyer. Those of us that actually practice know have the civil courts work. they TRUMP the racing judges. No pun intended...
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: White Rabbit on August 26, 2023, 11:59:39 PM
If you know the civil court then you would know that the private property exclusion has been taken to court and each time it’s been ruled in favor of the track.
2 when you fight a racing violation, at least as far as harness racing, then you would know just because a civil court rules in your favor doesn’t mean that when it goes back to the commission for review that the commission is going to go with what the court found. Case in point the Charlie May decision. But am sure you have taken a few race commissions to court Obi Won
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Fuguzzi on August 27, 2023, 01:43:12 AM
So fellow Ploppers what is Gural going to do with Tony Alagna, 3rd biggest trainer earner in 2023, now that Alagna put an end to one of his appeals for drugging?

https://ustrottingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Rulings-08252023.pdf
gabapentin is used to treat seizure like maladies such as epilepsy and can cause dizziness or drowsiness. Why would a talented trainer like Alagna give this to a racehorse?
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: SeattleSlew on August 27, 2023, 05:09:15 AM
gabapentin is used to treat seizure like maladies such as epilepsy and can cause dizziness or drowsiness. Why would a talented trainer like Alagna give this to a racehorse?

According to this it is used to treat "musculoskeletal" PAIN.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31980368/
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Parked on August 27, 2023, 08:34:07 AM
Wow I started this thread and only wanted to know if Gural would ban Alagna. I still don’t know but feel bad about all the hostilities. It again shows me how badly we need one set of rules that everyone can understand. And we need a clear and strong set of rules in regard to respecting racing jurisdictions honoring each other’s rulings. I mean we don’t even have a consistent pylon infraction rule from state to state. If all racing jurisdictions really want to kick the cheaters in their butts then stop talking and start acting to protect our sport, the fans and the honest trainers who are trying to make ends meet.

You must realize by now most racing jurisdictions don’t care.  Horse racing filled their coffers for years but now its the casinos. 
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Generation XYZ on August 27, 2023, 11:19:30 AM
According to this it is used to treat "musculoskeletal" PAIN.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31980368/

its a nerve blocking agent that over time is used to dull pain.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Harness Stats on August 27, 2023, 11:55:38 AM
gabapentin is used to treat seizure like maladies such as epilepsy and can cause dizziness or drowsiness. Why would a talented trainer like Alagna give this to a racehorse?
Gabapentin is the drug that Manchego had in her when she got disqualified at Scioto in 2019.  That decision was later overturned as levels were proved to be under the threshold but apparently it's used often in racehorses. I've seen a bunch of other fines,  suspensions etc for it.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Poker King on August 27, 2023, 12:53:22 PM
Maybe I am misreading this, however it seems as though the appeal by Alagna was reinstated and that the actions are stayed?

You are not reading it wrong. Alagna reinstated his appeal so he can continue to race. If he is suspended in NJ he would be suspended in ALL jurisdictions.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Generation XYZ on August 27, 2023, 01:00:45 PM
Gabapentin is the drug that Manchego had in her when she got disqualified at Scioto in 2019.  That decision was later overturned as levels were proved to be under the threshold but apparently it's used often in racehorses. I've seen a bunch of other fines,  suspensions etc for it.

True. But even at high levels the drug does not work immediately, its a build up. It takes time to work and has to take effect over time.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: jupiter on August 27, 2023, 01:05:07 PM
That is correct, there is reciprocity between the states and Canada. When he finally takes his days, you won't see his name down anywhere. I can tell you from a previous personal experience. Just like Greg Peck. If his stable in NJ is licensed he won't be able to step foot on the property. Believe me.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Mailbox Money on August 27, 2023, 01:58:12 PM
True. But even at high levels the drug does not work immediately, its a build up. It takes time to work and has to take effect over time.
In a recent study it was determined that Gabapentin does NOT provide any therapeutic or neurological effects to the equine athlete. If I  remember correctly, the study was commissioned by a rash of positives in Kentucky. It should pop right up if you Google it!
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Fuguzzi on August 27, 2023, 02:04:10 PM
In a recent study it was determined that Gabapentin does NOT provide any therapeutic or neurological effects to the equine athlete. If I  remember correctly, the study was commissioned by a rash of positives in Kentucky. It should pop right up if you Google it!
Yeah, it seems as if it's pain killing attributes are rather mild. Not really what it is know for. Good thing I retired   LOL
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Parked on August 27, 2023, 03:43:55 PM
Doctor’s prescribed gabapentin for the excruciating pain my wife suffered from shingles. 
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: theokodjak26 on August 27, 2023, 03:56:48 PM
Doctor’s prescribed gabapentin for the excruciating pain my wife suffered from shingles.

Well hopefully your wife got some relief from shingles. I have seen first hand how awful this virus is. I am curious if once your wife recovered from shingles by taking gabapentin, can she run or walk faster than before she took this drug? Just saying….
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Stan durbread on August 27, 2023, 03:58:48 PM
That is correct, there is reciprocity between the states and Canada. When he finally takes his days, you won't see his name down anywhere. I can tell you from a previous personal experience. Just like Greg Peck. If his stable in NJ is licensed he won't be able to step foot on the property. Believe me.

Then how is Steve Elliot racing in KY while still on his 10 years suspension in NJ?
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Stan durbread on August 27, 2023, 04:10:52 PM
Most states have signed reciprocity agreements. NJ is not 1 of them. They were always afraid a big barn would take their suspension in the winter causing short fields at their prime handle time. Tony O’Sullivan raced every night at Mohawk when he finally took his days in NJ for killing Cashmire Cammotion
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: old guy on August 27, 2023, 04:36:02 PM
Most states have signed reciprocity agreements. NJ is not 1 of them. They were always afraid a big barn would take their suspension in the winter causing short fields at their prime handle time. Tony O’Sullivan raced every night at Mohawk when he finally took his days in NJ for killing Cashmire Cammotion

And now he is a race secretary
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Generation XYZ on August 27, 2023, 05:24:31 PM
That is correct, there is reciprocity between the states and Canada. When he finally takes his days, you won't see his name down anywhere. I can tell you from a previous personal experience. Just like Greg Peck. If his stable in NJ is licensed he won't be able to step foot on the property. Believe me.

Man if you had any experience with Peck I feel for you.  He can't get licensed though because USTA also revoked his membership. Peck is his own worst enemy, and consemate Bull Shit artist along with the vet he used.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Fuguzzi on August 27, 2023, 06:16:01 PM
Of course, you are correct
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: HornbyDuke on August 27, 2023, 08:48:03 PM
Doctor’s prescribed gabapentin for the excruciating pain my wife suffered from shingles.

Its the gold standard for nerve pain (neuropathy, shingles etc). But also used for epilepsy (its original use) and restless leg syndrome.Been around for ever. Ive taken it. It isnt a typical pain killer. It works by interupting nerve signals. I found it mildly helpful.

For nerve pain used in lieu of opiates and tramadol (synthetic pseudo-opiod).Reason its so popular it doesnt cause addiction problems comparable to opiates.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: JIDGE on August 27, 2023, 08:59:34 PM
XXZ,
Your are erroneous incorrect. T.A. will absolutely be suspended in KY and every other state. It’s reciprocal suspension.

He won two at the Red Mile today.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: White Rabbit on August 27, 2023, 09:16:38 PM
He’s not currently under suspension
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Southpaw on August 29, 2023, 09:31:40 PM
There is not one state that doesn't do reciprocating suspension.  Find one example.  The Baffert example isn't a state racing commission suspension it is a Churchill Downs suspension.  That is why he is racing in other states.  Canada also will have him suspended.

You’re confusing tbreds where reciprocity does not exist for harness where reciprocity does
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Locked in with pace on August 30, 2023, 06:28:30 AM
contamination
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: White Rabbit on August 30, 2023, 08:06:51 AM
You’re confusing tbreds where reciprocity does not exist for harness where reciprocity does



Am not confusing anything.
Baffert is not under suspension. He lost his appeal in front of the Kentucky race
Commission, so now he’s taking it to Civil Court. The T- Breds also have reciprocity.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Generation XYZ on August 30, 2023, 09:15:20 AM
Most states have signed reciprocity agreements. NJ is not 1 of them. They were always afraid a big barn would take their suspension in the winter causing short fields at their prime handle time. Tony O’Sullivan raced every night at Mohawk when he finally took his days in NJ for killing Cashmire Cammotion

Then became a track employee.   ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 go figure
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Generation XYZ on August 30, 2023, 09:20:53 AM
XXZ,
Your are erroneous incorrect. T.A. will absolutely be suspended in KY and every other state. It’s reciprocal suspension.

As much as you would like to be right. YOUR WRONG. NJ maintains its own ruling structure without reciprocity. Examples: Steve Elliott, (Racing outside the sates 10 tear suspension), As someone already contended, Tony O'Sullivan, raced in Canada while suspended in NJ), Greg Peck, (suspended in KY, and in NY), but until his resent in off the rails infractions still raced in PA, and NJ). Your sir are erroneous in your statement.
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Parked on August 30, 2023, 11:48:28 AM
Well hopefully your wife got some relief from shingles. I have seen first hand how awful this virus is. I am curious if once your wife recovered from shingles by taking gabapentin, can she run or walk faster than before she took this drug? Just saying….
No lasting positives from taking gabapentin.  Returned to normal but the drug got her through some tremendous pain. 
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: White Rabbit on August 30, 2023, 05:04:49 PM
Elliot served 3 1/2 yr suspension, 18-19-20-21
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Mailbox Money on August 30, 2023, 10:16:49 PM
As much as you would like to be right. YOUR WRONG. NJ maintains its own ruling structure without reciprocity. Examples: Steve Elliott, (Racing outside the sates 10 tear suspension), As someone already contended, Tony O'Sullivan, raced in Canada while suspended in NJ), Greg Peck, (suspended in KY, and in NY), but until his resent in off the rails infractions still raced in PA, and NJ). Your sir are erroneous in your statement.
Steve is definitely in KY. I saw him with my own eyes when I was there recently!
Title: Re: Gural vs Alagna
Post by: Parked on August 31, 2023, 07:59:48 AM
Steve is definitely in KY. I saw him with my own eyes when I was there recently!

He is back with the largest assembly of  …. Well , you take it from there. 
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