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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Generation XYZ on August 21, 2023, 09:05:51 AM
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A matter of opinion of course. But now with the new purse structure, and old school heat racing. Should or Shouldn't the Little Brown Jug, become the jewel of Pacing's triple crown?
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Place is a shithole
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What good horse today wants to race on a half mile track should all race on a big track if you want to see speed and world records.
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If it was set up as the Meadowlands Pace, the North America Cup, and the Little Brown Jug with a large bonus for winning all three, it would go a long way to building fan interest.
You make a good point. Much like structure of TB Triple Crown.
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here's the thing
gamblers want the big track so all horses have 'somewhat" of a fair chance
but spectators and casual fans love the 1/2 as the horses pass twice and are very close
issue being those folks dont really bet any money
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Who in the public knows anything about our Triple Crowns? Nobody and they don't care. This has to be entertaining and betable, How do they follow horse racing? We have no publications dedicated to harness racing, the USTA web site is a joke. The only real press is the Surrick etc press. Tell us how to change it.
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Place is a shithole
It's a county fair! What do you expect?
FYI, this 'shithole' as you call it is probably better than Buffalo Raceway, Northville Downs, and a few other run-down tracks in North America today!
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Who in the public knows anything about our Triple Crowns? Nobody and they don't care. This has to be entertaining and betable, How do they follow horse racing? We have no publications dedicated to harness racing, the USTA web site is a joke. The only real press is the Surrick etc press. Tell us how to change it.
great point
You could ask horsemen what the triple crown of racing is --- most don't know.
We only care because it holds meaning to the runners, their fans, and to the casual fan on the first Saturday of May.
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Place is a shithole
Horsemen all agree that Dayton is unquestionably the top track in OH-IO. Time to move The Jug to a decent facility and develop it to event status. That old timey county fair vibe is out of date; and, as Dalrae do say: it's a subpar track
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Horsemen all agree that Dayton is unquestionably the top track in OH-IO. Time to move The Jug to a decent facility and develop it to event status. That old timey county fair vibe is out of date; and, as Dalrae do say: it's a subpar track
Bring it to Northfield so they can go even faster!!!!
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Bring it to Northfield so they can go even faster!!!!
ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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If it was set up as the Meadowlands Pace, the North America Cup, and the Little Brown Jug with a large bonus for winning all three, it would go a long way to building fan interest.
Exactly! It's obvious that the Jug attendance is on the decline.I mean actual fans,not the way they calculate it now. The last one I went to was when Betting Line won, attendance was announced to be 30k but the grandstand had alot of empty areas. I don't know the capacity of the stands but I would guess it was just 60% full,on a warm sunny day.
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It's definitely lost it's luster because there is no battles anymore. The good ones won't come or if they do they scratch out of the 2nd heat. Now you don't have to win twice and that's not right either. Fans want to see a war and drama. Now if you draw good and have speed it's over. Burke drops in four or five and hopes to draw inside with one and get all the money. They need to allow a trainer a max of two entries. Go back to must win twice. Maybe go to open draw in the second heat as well and give the elim winners 1-5?
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It's definitely lost it's luster because there is no battles anymore. The good ones won't come or if they do they scratch out of the 2nd heat. Now you don't have to win twice and that's not right either. Fans want to see a war and drama. Now if you draw good and have speed it's over. Burke drops in four or five and hopes to draw inside with one and get all the money. They need to allow a trainer a max of two entries. Go back to must win twice. Maybe go to open draw in the second heat as well and give the elim winners 1-5?
I like the Open Draw idea.
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There is no doubt the Jug has lost some of its luster. Last year's jug was the least competitive I've seen in years. Attendance just like most tracks is down due to the internet. The majority of people there seem more interested in partying than true harness racing fans. They finally are renovating some of old grandstand with much needed new restrooms. We'll see how much the purse increase helps.
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I don't think the purse increase is going to help as much as they think it will. My guess is your going to get two short fields of 6-8 horses and it will be ho hum racing.
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I like the Open Draw idea.
This could make a final very interesting, especially if the heat winners get 7&8 slots! tmbz1
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There is no doubt the Jug has lost some of its luster. Last year's jug was the least competitive I've seen in years. Attendance just like most tracks is down due to the internet. The majority of people there seem more interested in partying than true harness racing fans. They finally are renovating some of old grandstand with much needed new restrooms. We'll see how much the purse increase helps.
While gambling and handicapping is of interest to a small percentage, there's certainly a benefit to attracting a demographic that perceives harness racing as entertainment. The promotion at most any track has gone almost non-existant. Altho, I drove down last year for the Dayton Derby and good glory! The apron was shoulder to shoulder and jam packed to the doors into the casino. The crowd overwhelmed the food and beverage vendors causing a 45 min delay to get a beer. They apparently weren't expecting the turn out. If the sport expects to draw the 20 - 50 YO they can do it at a clean, well lit racino. The people that grew up at older co. fair / fairgrounds tracks are infirmed or dead. The past is past .. purses won't lift the dearly departed interest - sizzle, promotion, entertainment is what will bring 'em out
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Horsemen all agree that Dayton is unquestionably the top track in OH-IO. Time to move The Jug to a decent facility and develop it to event status. That old timey county fair vibe is out of date; and, as Dalrae do say: it's a subpar track
problem is you could fit about 1,000 in the facility.
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problem is you could fit about 1,000 in the facility.
Just my personal preference from top to bottom my favorites are Scioto, Miami Valley, Dayton and last Northfield. The Jug is in a different category.
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When did the Messenger Stakes stop being run?
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problem is you could fit about 1,000 in the facility.
Ya but a packed facility is a busy facility. Better to be shoulder to shoulder audience than yards of empty space.
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What good horse today wants to race on a half mile track should all race on a big track if you want to see speed and world records.
If thats what you want build a straight mile track
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I love betting smaller tracks. My biggest win on Saturday at Pocono was Miller from the 8 post. The post did not stop Covered Bridge from winning Saturday night.
With all and ever increasing gambling options, the gambling angle is a bad strategy. It is always very difficult to increase market share in a market with many competitors and many substitutes. In PA over 80% of purses come from subsidies. Harness racing must sell the sport not the gambling.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
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In racing best days, it was a gambling venue. The sport was a distant second. The problem with investing in and developing the sport is, where will the ROI come from? Not food or drink sales. You cant get parking or admission fees. Charging for a program, turns people off. So were will the money come from?
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In racing best days, it was a gambling venue. The sport was a distant second. The problem with investing in and developing the sport is, where will the ROI come from? Not food or drink sales. You cant get parking or admission fees. Charging for a program, turns people off. So were will the money come from?
The venue has a revenue stream the no other track has. They have the money to upgrade the facilities which they are starting to do with the historic grandstand. The county passed a room tax which includes a lot of busy hotels in the area. The tax is bringing in millions to upgrade the fairgrounds, the track area and all the horseman area. So while other track are having a hard time squeezing $ from their casino management for upgrades the Jug will continue to thrive in the future.
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The Jug has never been the same since simulcasting.
I've been to one jug since it simulcasting started. When i was a student at Ohio State, they would always start classes on the 3rd Wednesday of September -- The Third Thursday would be my first day I skipped classes.
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In racing best days, it was a gambling venue. The sport was a distant second. The problem with investing in and developing the sport is, where will the ROI come from? Not food or drink sales. You cant get parking or admission fees. Charging for a program, turns people off. So were will the money come from?
Unfortunately, the betting aspect is gone today. The more money you bet into a pool, chances are you are stepping on your own money today, unlike years ago. If you own stakes horses, you have a significant financial investment involved and you are racing for purse money, not trying to survive by gambling!
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we have enough speed tracks, mohawk, big m, red mile etc
its nice to have something different especially for casual fans ( who many at deleware are)
its still fun to see the horses up close and have them go by you twice
while it will never be what it once was, its still a great day and event and draws some attention and actual asses in seats